Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The tristan is pretty bad compared to the Ishkur.

Ishkur can actually fit a decent tank.

CCP, I am really upset about how you are "fixing" the Kestrel. The way it looks now just looks like a slower Condor with a bit more damage. I say it needs at least another low-slot.

I love the tristan...

2 x 125mm railgun II caldari navy thorium
Unstable small nuet

1mn limited mwd
Faint warp disrupter
Meta iv tracking disrupter optimal range disruption script

200mm steel plate II
Dcu ii
Adaptive plating ii

Powegrid rig x2
Trimark

8x warrior ii

You can drop the second pg rig for a plus 3 pg implant...
Then go for a second trimark
I was playing with this on duality and it was boss...

Td are op atm make it so only specialty ships can use scripts...
That will make them less fotm

Also increase the bonus on scripts... Plus increase tp bonus on minnie ships to 20% to compensate for lack of scripts for tp... this would mean 75% increase to sig radius...

though reg ships only get 37.5%

what i would do is make tech II scripts that increase the bonus by 125% this would make it so a ship like the celestis would have with skills at V with proposed 7.5% bonus per lev so you have 21.25 * 1.375 = 29 * 2.25 = 65 % in either optimal range or targeting speed... if you have a tech III ship boosting you end up with 87% reduction

but on an nonspecializing ship you only get 21.25% range reduction and targeting speed because you cant use scripts...

or for td's on a arbirator with optimal range script in and just skills you get 25.12* 1.375 = 34.53 *2.25 = 77.715%

but on a regular non specialized ship its just 25.12% across the board...



1. increase minmatar racial bonus for target painters to 20% per level

2. remove scripts from non specialized ships... make scripts a role bonus for tech II ewar ships.

3. introduce tech II scripts that have a 125% bonus.

4. make a new mod that is a projected sensor ghost (effect is a reduction on target ships sig radius, reduces target ship sig radius by 37.5%)

5. get rid of drone rep bonus on 4 of the logistics cruisers tech II ships... replace as a role bonus to gal and min ones.

6. make a tech II version of logi frigs and put the drone rep bonus on them
tech II Inquisitor:
Frigate skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Logi frig Bonus:
20% to armor bot transfer amount per level
5% bonus to armor resistance per level
Role Bonus:
500% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
50% increase to AB speed boost

7. remove the tracking link bonus from the gal logi ship

8. replace all removed bonus for logi ships with:

gal: projected eccm (to counter ecm)

caldari: remote sensor boosters (to counter RSD)

min: keep tracking link bonus gain a cap recharge bonus 5% per lev

ammar: gets this new projected sensor ghost mod...

9. remove all remote boosting affects to super caps... (this means you cant use a remote sensor booster on it)

10: replace speed penalty for armor rigs to agility penalty

11: for gal ships that get a racial bonus to armour repair amount per level this bonus will now also work on incoming remote armor repair mods
Example on aa unfit incusus with skills at V a large remote armor rep will repair 189 dps math: 384*1.5 = 576 per rep /4.5 = 128 per second. this will make the repair bonus useful for gal ships for medium to large scale fights...

12. remove the fitting role bonus for logi ships and replace with 1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor/shield Repairers and ET 's (armor for gal/amarr shield for min/cal)

13: replace crusier skill bonus for logi ships with thier tech I bonus: i.e oneiros:
cruiser skill bonus:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
10 % bonus to projected ECCM range per level
logi skill bonus:
10 % bonus to projected ECCM effectiveness per level
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use.
Role bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount

14. make a new hull for bs for all 4 races... make it a logi bs that gets a bonus to range and cap use for large armor for gal and amarr and shield for cal and min then a large ET bonus for cal/amarr
the min and gal would have 6 high slots ammarr and cal would have 8
Role bonus would be: 50% boost to ab speed bonus and 25% bonus to agility

The Tristan has less tank, but the drones themselves have less staying power and are better able to take on smaller targets.


The ishkur has a drone capacity bonus (reaches parity with Tristan at AF III) and bonuses to the guns.

here we go again...
i begin to wonder what you could possibly want from the changes. minmatar ships so bad, nobody wants to fly them anymore?



how can you bring the kestrel as an argument when comparing incursus and breacher? how the kestrel performs in pve has no relevance when comparing the balance between incursus and breacher in pvp.
btw; you did note the 4th launcher on the kestrel the breacher is missing? this means the kestrel has more rocket power. if you count in the second light drone (which only makes sense when brawling, makes no sense when kiting and using light missiles) breacher will at max have the same output as the kestrel. you also need good skills in missiles and drones.



no comment ...



so i actually went on duality and tested breacher in both light missile and rocket set up.

long range / short range
3x arbalest light missile / 3x arbalest rocket launcher

1mn limited mwd / 1mn limited mwd
small asb (7 charges) / medium asb (7 charges)
warp disruptor t2 / warp scrambler meta 4
em resistance amp. t2 / em resistance amp. t2

balist. control t2 / balist. control t2
nanofiber t2 / cpu t2
adaptive nano plating t2 (was out of fitting) / dcu t2


small web drones / hobgob t2

rigs: em & therm resi t1 + bay loading accel. t1

my missile skills are just lacking the specialisation. drone skills are lvl4
i used cn faction rockets and missiles.

the long range setup was pushing 62 dps (web drones - no dmg) according to ingame fitting tool and boosting around 75 hp every two seconds (7 charges...). i managed to pop a brawling thrasher by orbiting around 20 km, and a tristan with the same trick. though it took some time. a rail cormo literally vaporized me and he was tanking me with buffer quite comfortably. this set up was very fast but once you get tackled or the asb charges go out (which takes only 14 seconds if youre not careful) youre toast.

the brawling setup was dishing out ~ 100 dps with drones (you can actually rebuild it on tq now without drones, as the breacher has already a 5% bonus for em, therm and kin) and boosted 200 hp every 3 seconds (again 7 cycles).
i won barely (half in armor, another 2 blown and i would have been gone) against ccp foxfour in a kestrel, afterwars he told me he forgott to activate his prob mod.
this setup is as tanky as you can get without sacrificing all of your dmg. a activetanked kestrel or a long range with web would probably be your death.

both setups where totally outclassd by assault frigs and died horribly without doing any meaningfull dmg.

winter is coming and i hope to get more time for testing against all the other combat and attack frigs. so far i think breacher is good but has definitaly its weak spots. the active tank will make it more and more vulnerable as the number of combatants is rising. no buffer there. to put it in other words of a dear friend of mine:



you got exactly what you wanted ;) and the harder they hit, the squishier they will get.

We have actually done the Vexors and an Ishtar with sentries thing with some success, with good bait tackle...but I was thinking the Tristan hull to be even cheaper, and with enough of them, just more funny than practical. I enjoy playing around with such silly ideas, the isk loss of a tristan would be even stupidly less than the vexor hull... which is my only loss of the month so far, too, mind you, and it wasn't much.

what makes you believe i only have a minmatar char? does it make you feel better, that i also play amarr and like the amarrian ships?
do you have a minmatarian char and have played it from frig to battleship or is your opinion only build on your pvp losses?



are you talking about these canes http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17527614 ?
there is no way these were going ~ 3000m/s . with a full rack of speed implants and lvl5 navigation skills this fit goes not quite 1500. so you think they doubled their speed with off grid boosters? they flew their canes with a fitting mod and t1 weapons. so i doubt they had all needed skills at 4 or 5.
i could give you numbers on dmg as well but qe are getting of track. just let me add: when you engange a camping arty cane blob and you know about it, why are you doing it with a lot of faction frigs & cruisers and destroyers ( i mean destroyers..)?



i argue that the breacher has a better tank. breacher tank is more suited for small scale (1v1 maybe up to 3v3) but the instant the kestrel brings a logi support it is in the advantage. the higher speed of the breacher only helps when keeping distance. brawling is about hammering it out at close distance. you can savely assume that you are going to be webbed and / or scrambled. even unwebbed in close distance the ships cant go for full speed, so the rockets will not have a hard time applying dmg (you can check that for your self with any rocket boat and a reaper with an ab for example. let it orbit between 3 and 5 km. when brawling against blaster boat you have to assume webs and we are inside web range- beside that, small blasters track like crazy. so where exactly was superb speed during brawling helpful?
if you want to elaborate on your incursus - breacher comparision, please do. but please include some real testing not just the old and too much repeated minmatar is winmatar argument. fyi it does not help to solve anything.

I personally am happy that Tristan is becoming a drone boat. I love the hull design and always dreamed of it becoming a strong combat ship. And I also love drones, so this is kinda perfect thing for me. =)

As for the concerns with hull legacy towards T2, Ishkur isn't quite a drone boat with the mixed bonuses and no drone damage bonus. It's more like a "more droney incursus". So Ishkur being based on Incursus hull makes perfect sense to me, unlike the idea of gallente having a missile boat.

I'd even go as far as to try turning Nemesis into a drone boat, perhaps giving it ~25 m3 drone bay instead of the torps and some bonus like "-80% drone bay volume requirement for heavy attack drones" so that instead of using missiles it would get up close and drop those ogres upon its target.

Didn't you say you had something special in mind for the Rifters' second bonus?

Any word on that?

Have you considered changing the rifter's second bonus to something else? Right now, every single small autocannon boat has a damage and tracking bonus, which has resulted in the rifter and slasher being kind of samey. Except that the slasher is generally superior thanks to higher speed, lower sig, and 4 mid slots. Right now there is almost no reason to use the rifter over any the other ships in its class. Maybe change tracking to a falloff bonus (ala nustabber) or ROF/second damage bonus (bringing it in line with the rupture->hurricane->tempest line of ships)? Please.