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[Winter] More Combat Frigates!

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Author
Sang-in Tiers
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#461 - 2012-10-15 23:12:29 UTC
AAWWWWWW! Is your dear rifter not completely made out of win in comparison to the other races anymore? For some reason I cant feel any sympathy. RollRollRoll
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#462 - 2012-10-15 23:22:42 UTC
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
AAWWWWWW! Is your dear rifter not completely made out of win in comparison to the other races anymore? For some reason I cant feel any sympathy. RollRollRoll


That it loses to other frigs is just a footnote to how badly it loses to the Slasher, and talking about that might make you more sympathetic to people who complain about it: Punisher/Merlin/Incursus/Rifter are supposed to win on tank+gank when compared with Executioner/Condor/Atron/Slasher. Presently none of them have a gank advantage. Presently all of them have a really substantial tank advantage - except for the Rifter.
Davo OHno
The Sagan Clan
#463 - 2012-10-15 23:32:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Davo OHno
Question for anyone really. I'm sure it's been asked, but wasn't going to scan 24 pages of posts.



With the given slot changes, will this have any effect on the T2 version layouts(Stealth Bombers)?
Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#464 - 2012-10-16 06:18:44 UTC
Davo OHno wrote:
Question for anyone really. I'm sure it's been asked, but wasn't going to scan 24 pages of posts.



With the given slot changes, will this have any effect on the T2 version layouts(Stealth Bombers)?


There's been some talk but nothing definite, what is most likely is t2 ships are going to be balanced on an entirely different basis rather than just across the board improvements.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#465 - 2012-10-16 09:05:03 UTC
Kuehnelt wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
AAWWWWWW! Is your dear rifter not completely made out of win in comparison to the other races anymore? For some reason I cant feel any sympathy. RollRollRoll


That it loses to other frigs is just a footnote to how badly it loses to the Slasher, and talking about that might make you more sympathetic to people who complain about it: Punisher/Merlin/Incursus/Rifter are supposed to win on tank+gank when compared with Executioner/Condor/Atron/Slasher. Presently none of them have a gank advantage. Presently all of them have a really substantial tank advantage - except for the Rifter.



They aren't supposed to win on gank. Attack frigs are supposed to be ganky.

Merlin/incursus are fine..

Puni rifter are utter **** though.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#466 - 2012-10-16 12:16:20 UTC
Davo OHno wrote:
Question for anyone really. I'm sure it's been asked, but wasn't going to scan 24 pages of posts.



With the given slot changes, will this have any effect on the T2 version layouts(Stealth Bombers)?


None of the T1 changes we do in our balance pass will necessarily apply to the T2 versions. We may carry some stuff on if it's appropriate but that will be on a case by case basis.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Borascus
#467 - 2012-10-16 13:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
The tristan might be more viable like this, previously it was very difficult in the early stages of skill training to get a tristan's orbit "sweet" enough to inflict daamge proportionately.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#468 - 2012-10-16 13:47:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
well hopefully they will remove the hybrid bonus for a drone bonus on the pair of them
And sort out the vexor dronebay/bandwidth 50/100 would be nice

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Valleria Darkmoon
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#469 - 2012-10-26 00:46:50 UTC
Kaikka Carel wrote:
Tristan:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets, 0 launchers (-2)
Fittings: 35 PWG (-3), 130 CPU (+5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350(-41) / 450(+20) / 550 (+167)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 350 / 175s (-59.38s)/ 2 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 (+4) / 3.44 (-0.21) / 1106000 (+100000) / 3.56s (-0.02)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 (+20) / 40 (+35)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km (+12.5) / 600 (+10) / 5
Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 41 (-1)
Cargo capacity: 140


1. Less slots total than other ships of its class. Is going to be very stressing in this type of class.

2. Least amount of fitting resources again. Did you calculate the numbers or just gave gimped stats to gallente by an old habbit?

3. Tracking bonus for 2 turrets... Daresay its a waste just like a rep bonus on Brutix.

4. Slot layout. Given that the drones deal damage overtime I'd like to have some slots to fill the tank in. Unfortunately there are only 3 available both in mid and lows.


A dev mentioned in another thread (the attack cruiser thread i believe) that drone centered ships always have one fewer slot than ships with few or no drones. This is because the damage can quickly get out of hand when they have a larger than typical drone bay AND the ability to fit the full gank of other ships.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Aglais
Ice-Storm
Duck.U
#470 - 2012-10-26 02:52:59 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:


A dev mentioned in another thread (the attack cruiser thread i believe) that drone centered ships always have one fewer slot than ships with few or no drones. This is because the damage can quickly get out of hand when they have a larger than typical drone bay AND the ability to fit the full gank of other ships.


But the Tristan can't. Honestly, I think it should get a fourth low slot. It's only got two guns, and it's not very fast. As it stands it's an almost-kiter that'll be sending out drones at silly long ranges, but then probably die because something else got too close too fast because it couldn't stay away.
Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#471 - 2012-10-26 08:00:35 UTC
Drones at the frigate level are especially hard to use as enemy frigates can eliminate drones in the blink of an eye forcing you to choose between microing them in and out of your drone bay (which will probably lead to them just shooting you while the majority of your dps is wasted) or let the enemy shoot them and lose most of your dps.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#472 - 2012-10-26 10:23:24 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Drones at the frigate level are especially hard to use as enemy frigates can eliminate drones in the blink of an eye forcing you to choose between microing them in and out of your drone bay (which will probably lead to them just shooting you while the majority of your dps is wasted) or let the enemy shoot them and lose most of your dps.

You are forgetting that drones are also a very potent anti-frigate weapon for all larger hulls. That's the reason why gallente drone ships always have guns : while the ennemy focus on drones, he's not focusing on you, and you melt him. By the time your drones are dead, he is dead too. Ever faced an ishkur in a frigate ? As fast as you can kill the drones, you still die doing it, and the ishkur is still there shooting at you.
Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#473 - 2012-10-26 11:23:17 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Drones at the frigate level are especially hard to use as enemy frigates can eliminate drones in the blink of an eye forcing you to choose between microing them in and out of your drone bay (which will probably lead to them just shooting you while the majority of your dps is wasted) or let the enemy shoot them and lose most of your dps.

You are forgetting that drones are also a very potent anti-frigate weapon for all larger hulls. That's the reason why gallente drone ships always have guns : while the ennemy focus on drones, he's not focusing on you, and you melt him. By the time your drones are dead, he is dead too. Ever faced an ishkur in a frigate ? As fast as you can kill the drones, you still die doing it, and the ishkur is still there shooting at you.


Yes the Ishkur does well in frigate battles for the reason you mentioned, but don't forget that is at point blank and more of the ishkurs dps comes from blasters, any decent pilots knows that if you can keep out of the Ishkurs blaster range, you can easily eliminate its drones and kite it to death, if you're point blank brawling a blaster Ishkur and shooting its drones you're doing it wrong.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#474 - 2012-10-26 12:25:01 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
You are forgetting that drones are also a very potent anti-frigate weapon for all larger hulls. That's the reason why gallente drone ships always have guns : while the ennemy focus on drones, he's not focusing on you, and you melt him. By the time your drones are dead, he is dead too. Ever faced an ishkur in a frigate ? As fast as you can kill the drones, you still die doing it, and the ishkur is still there shooting at you.


Yes the Ishkur does well in frigate battles for the reason you mentioned, but don't forget that is at point blank and more of the ishkurs dps comes from blasters, any decent pilots knows that if you can keep out of the Ishkurs blaster range, you can easily eliminate its drones and kite it to death, if you're point blank brawling a blaster Ishkur and shooting its drones you're doing it wrong.

And what will you do against a railguns ishkur ? :-)
BTW, its drones have friends in the dronebay, only waiting for their turn.

And I'm pretty sure you can have most of your dps with blasters too on this tristan. You don't need a lot of blasters to outdps some lightdrones.

And still, a lot of large ships manage to defend themselves with only one flight of light drones. Either most frigate pilots are bad or light drones are pretty good at killing frigates already ? Droneboats also had always been renowned for their frigate killing capabilities, and that's certainly not because of medium or heavy drones.

And yes, kiting is the death of blaster boats, and that shouldn't be different, nothing new here and that's not the debate. Any competent blaster ship pilot know it BTW, and will do everything to trap it's target in its bloody claws. That's the blasters game.
Sard Caid
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#475 - 2012-10-30 03:46:48 UTC
I wasn't able to play with these as much as I'd like, however they feel very powerful with great damage output and amazing projection for frigates. I'd like to spend a few more hours with each of the new frigate's match ups, though I can tentatively say that they're quite dominant versus the current iterations of combat and attack frigates. I'll say more if Duality can go up again soon™.
Jet Lazuli
Perkone
Caldari State
#476 - 2012-10-31 07:48:34 UTC
I know this question isn't THAT important. But.... wondering if the Kestrel will get the same revamped ship model that the Manticore has ATM?
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#477 - 2012-10-31 11:48:56 UTC
Why would it ? The new model was specifically for torpedo launchers.
Johnny Bloomington
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#478 - 2012-10-31 14:48:39 UTC
Jet Lazuli wrote:
I know this question isn't THAT important. But.... wondering if the Kestrel will get the same revamped ship model that the Manticore has ATM?

I second this! The model could be slightly modified for different hard points.

CCP wish list: show damage on ships and open that door!

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#479 - 2012-10-31 16:00:00 UTC
Jet Lazuli wrote:
I know this question isn't THAT important. But.... wondering if the Kestrel will get the same revamped ship model that the Manticore has ATM?



No... No... No no no no no no no



No




NO!

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Johnny Bloomington
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#480 - 2012-10-31 19:42:05 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Jet Lazuli wrote:
I know this question isn't THAT important. But.... wondering if the Kestrel will get the same revamped ship model that the Manticore has ATM?



No... No... No no no no no no no



No




NO!


and Why.... why...Why why why why why why why


Why






WHY?

CCP wish list: show damage on ships and open that door!