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[Winter] More Combat Frigates!

First post First post
Author
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#421 - 2012-09-22 07:36:36 UTC
mkint wrote:
So... Tristan is going to be a better drone boat than ishkur? Same bandwidth plus drone bonuses.

That's my concern as well.
===
I have no problem with the Tristan not having missile bonuses, the current version doesn't either, but it would be nice to keep the missile hardpoints. The Gallente wouldn't have a dedicated missile boat, but they would have something they could fit missile launchers to just the same as it is now.

On a side note, please take a look at the nemesis, it has the same PG and less grid than Manticore, so there's no reason to use one. Also Roden is the one that makes Missile Ships, please change the Manufacturer from Duvolle.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#422 - 2012-09-22 13:53:21 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
mkint wrote:
So... Tristan is going to be a better drone boat than ishkur? Same bandwidth plus drone bonuses.

That's my concern as well.
===
I have no problem with the Tristan not having missile bonuses, the current version doesn't either, but it would be nice to keep the missile hardpoints. The Gallente wouldn't have a dedicated missile boat, but they would have something they could fit missile launchers to just the same as it is now.

On a side note, please take a look at the nemesis, it has the same PG and less grid than Manticore, so there's no reason to use one. Also Roden is the one that makes Missile Ships, please change the Manufacturer from Duvolle.


The tristan is pretty bad compared to the Ishkur.

Ishkur can actually fit a decent tank.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#423 - 2012-09-23 21:57:34 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
mkint wrote:
So... Tristan is going to be a better drone boat than ishkur? Same bandwidth plus drone bonuses.

That's my concern as well.
===
I have no problem with the Tristan not having missile bonuses, the current version doesn't either, but it would be nice to keep the missile hardpoints. The Gallente wouldn't have a dedicated missile boat, but they would have something they could fit missile launchers to just the same as it is now.

On a side note, please take a look at the nemesis, it has the same PG and less grid than Manticore, so there's no reason to use one. Also Roden is the one that makes Missile Ships, please change the Manufacturer from Duvolle.


The tristan is pretty bad compared to the Ishkur.

Ishkur can actually fit a decent tank.

I'd say the Ishkur is pretty bad compared to the Tristan.... why the heck would you pay 30 times the price for a bit more tank / dps, but less speed? It doesn't even get a drone tracking bonus.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#424 - 2012-09-23 21:59:28 UTC
CCP, I am really upset about how you are "fixing" the Kestrel. The way it looks now just looks like a slower Condor with a bit more damage. I say it needs at least another low-slot.
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
Doomheim
#425 - 2012-09-24 05:47:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
I really hoped winmatar wouldn´t be winmatar any more after the rebalance but it doesn´t seem so.
Minmatar should be more about guerilla. Fast, hard hitting and fragile ships.
What do we get instead? The race with the fastest ships, by far best weapon systems (ac need no cap plus dmg type choosing, even artillery will be soon far better than HM, especially with THIS alpha) and best active tanking.
Additionally: Active tanking with shields means they dont´t loose any speed.
Okay what don´t Minmatar have? They have everything.
Instead I would decrease the Minmatar ship tank really instead giving them the same tank like the other ships or at least decrease their resistances more. Minmatar ships already have speed like hell and CCP completely underestimates this factor.
There is some reason that drake is breakfast for drams and daredevils....
And what Gallente would really need: Decrease the speed penalty of armor active tank rigs.
Incursus which needs speed because of blasters and has active armor tanking needs to decrease his speed for better active armor tanking.
Minmatar which already have crazy speed don´t need to do this and have additionaly the better weapon system which additionally doesn´t even need cap in comparison to blasters.

Now let us compare Incursus and the new Breacher:
Tank given from the hulls is the same. Breacher is faster, shield tanking in comparison to Incursus doesn´t make him slower, the weapons need no cap and it can choose damage. Plus Breacher has one drone more.
PLUS: Has anybody considered what a punch a rocket beacher has? I have killed Dagan some weeks ago with another toon with a T2 rocket Kestrel and he was only cannon fodder. The breacher with the second drone even has the same firepower at more range than an incursus.
So where the hell is THIS balance?????
Incursus is a lot slower, everybody knows that active shield tanking is better than acive armor tanking, incursus needs cap for weapons, breacher not and breacher has the same dmg with much more range plus damage type choosing.

Do you want a new Rifter?????
Minmatar really need a nerf. And that new Breacher is FAR better than any incursus which was really good atm.

P.s After the HM nerf I would like to have artillery with dmg bonus on the drake. Then even Minmatar have the best long range weapon. Rofl. That is not rebalance. That is comedy.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#426 - 2012-09-24 05:56:14 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
I love the tristan...

2 x 125mm railgun II caldari navy thorium
Unstable small nuet

1mn limited mwd
Faint warp disrupter
Meta iv tracking disrupter optimal range disruption script

200mm steel plate II
Dcu ii
Adaptive plating ii

Powegrid rig x2
Trimark

8x warrior ii

You can drop the second pg rig for a plus 3 pg implant...
Then go for a second trimark
I was playing with this on duality and it was boss...

Td are op atm make it so only specialty ships can use scripts...
That will make them less fotm

Also increase the bonus on scripts... Plus increase tp bonus on minnie ships to 20% to compensate for lack of scripts for tp... this would mean 75% increase to sig radius...

though reg ships only get 37.5%

what i would do is make tech II scripts that increase the bonus by 125% this would make it so a ship like the celestis would have with skills at V with proposed 7.5% bonus per lev so you have 21.25 * 1.375 = 29 * 2.25 = 65 % in either optimal range or targeting speed... if you have a tech III ship boosting you end up with 87% reduction Pirate

but on an nonspecializing ship you only get 21.25% range reduction and targeting speed because you cant use scripts...

or for td's on a arbirator with optimal range script in and just skills you get 25.12* 1.375 = 34.53 *2.25 = 77.715%

but on a regular non specialized ship its just 25.12% across the board...



1. increase minmatar racial bonus for target painters to 20% per level

2. remove scripts from non specialized ships... make scripts a role bonus for tech II ewar ships.

3. introduce tech II scripts that have a 125% bonus.

4. make a new mod that is a projected sensor ghost (effect is a reduction on target ships sig radius, reduces target ship sig radius by 37.5%)

5. get rid of drone rep bonus on 4 of the logistics cruisers tech II ships... replace as a role bonus to gal and min ones.

6. make a tech II version of logi frigs and put the drone rep bonus on them
tech II Inquisitor:
Frigate skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Logi frig Bonus:
20% to armor bot transfer amount per level
5% bonus to armor resistance per level
Role Bonus:
500% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
50% increase to AB speed boost

7. remove the tracking link bonus from the gal logi ship

8. replace all removed bonus for logi ships with:

gal: projected eccm (to counter ecm)

caldari: remote sensor boosters (to counter RSD)

min: keep tracking link bonus gain a cap recharge bonus 5% per lev

ammar: gets this new projected sensor ghost mod...

9. remove all remote boosting affects to super caps... (this means you cant use a remote sensor booster on it)

10: replace speed penalty for armor rigs to agility penalty

11: for gal ships that get a racial bonus to armour repair amount per level this bonus will now also work on incoming remote armor repair mods
Example on aa unfit incusus with skills at V a large remote armor rep will repair 189 dps math: 384*1.5 = 576 per rep /4.5 = 128 per second. this will make the repair bonus useful for gal ships for medium to large scale fights...

12. remove the fitting role bonus for logi ships and replace with 1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor/shield Repairers and ET 's (armor for gal/amarr shield for min/cal)

13: replace crusier skill bonus for logi ships with thier tech I bonus: i.e oneiros:
cruiser skill bonus:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
10 % bonus to projected ECCM range per level
logi skill bonus:
10 % bonus to projected ECCM effectiveness per level
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use.
Role bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount

14. make a new hull for bs for all 4 races... make it a logi bs that gets a bonus to range and cap use for large armor for gal and amarr and shield for cal and min then a large ET bonus for cal/amarr
the min and gal would have 6 high slots ammarr and cal would have 8
Role bonus would be: 50% boost to ab speed bonus and 25% bonus to agility

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#427 - 2012-09-24 08:47:41 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
mkint wrote:
So... Tristan is going to be a better drone boat than ishkur? Same bandwidth plus drone bonuses.

That's my concern as well.
===
I have no problem with the Tristan not having missile bonuses, the current version doesn't either, but it would be nice to keep the missile hardpoints. The Gallente wouldn't have a dedicated missile boat, but they would have something they could fit missile launchers to just the same as it is now.

On a side note, please take a look at the nemesis, it has the same PG and less grid than Manticore, so there's no reason to use one. Also Roden is the one that makes Missile Ships, please change the Manufacturer from Duvolle.


The tristan is pretty bad compared to the Ishkur.

Ishkur can actually fit a decent tank.

I'd say the Ishkur is pretty bad compared to the Tristan.... why the heck would you pay 30 times the price for a bit more tank / dps, but less speed? It doesn't even get a drone tracking bonus.



A bit more? I t has like three times the tank and twice the dps...

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#428 - 2012-09-24 13:09:22 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
mkint wrote:
So... Tristan is going to be a better drone boat than ishkur? Same bandwidth plus drone bonuses.

That's my concern as well.
===
I have no problem with the Tristan not having missile bonuses, the current version doesn't either, but it would be nice to keep the missile hardpoints. The Gallente wouldn't have a dedicated missile boat, but they would have something they could fit missile launchers to just the same as it is now.

On a side note, please take a look at the nemesis, it has the same PG and less grid than Manticore, so there's no reason to use one. Also Roden is the one that makes Missile Ships, please change the Manufacturer from Duvolle.


The tristan is pretty bad compared to the Ishkur.

Ishkur can actually fit a decent tank.

The Tristan has less tank, but the drones themselves have less staying power and are better able to take on smaller targets.


The ishkur has a drone capacity bonus (reaches parity with Tristan at AF III) and bonuses to the guns.
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
SCRUBS.
#429 - 2012-09-24 14:12:57 UTC
The Tristan will be awesome. Dat hull tank bros. Dat hull tank

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#430 - 2012-09-24 14:59:32 UTC
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:
I really hoped winmatar wouldn´t be winmatar any more after the rebalance but it doesn´t seem so.
Minmatar should be more about guerilla. Fast, hard hitting and fragile ships.
What do we get instead? The race with the fastest ships, by far best weapon systems (ac need no cap plus dmg type choosing, even artillery will be soon far better than HM, especially with THIS alpha) and best active tanking.
Additionally: Active tanking with shields means they dont´t loose any speed.
Okay what don´t Minmatar have? They have everything.
Instead I would decrease the Minmatar ship tank really instead giving them the same tank like the other ships or at least decrease their resistances more. Minmatar ships already have speed like hell and CCP completely underestimates this factor.
There is some reason that drake is breakfast for drams and daredevils....
And what Gallente would really need: Decrease the speed penalty of armor active tank rigs.
Incursus which needs speed because of blasters and has active armor tanking needs to decrease his speed for better active armor tanking.
Minmatar which already have crazy speed don´t need to do this and have additionaly the better weapon system which additionally doesn´t even need cap in comparison to blasters.


here we go again...
i begin to wonder what you could possibly want from the changes. minmatar ships so bad, nobody wants to fly them anymore?

Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:

Now let us compare Incursus and the new Breacher:
Tank given from the hulls is the same. Breacher is faster, shield tanking in comparison to Incursus doesn´t make him slower, the weapons need no cap and it can choose damage. Plus Breacher has one drone more.
PLUS: Has anybody considered what a punch a rocket beacher has? I have killed Dagan some weeks ago with another toon with a T2 rocket Kestrel and he was only cannon fodder. The breacher with the second drone even has the same firepower at more range than an incursus.
So where the hell is THIS balance?????
Incursus is a lot slower, everybody knows that active shield tanking is better than acive armor tanking, incursus needs cap for weapons, breacher not and breacher has the same dmg with much more range plus damage type choosing.


how can you bring the kestrel as an argument when comparing incursus and breacher? how the kestrel performs in pve has no relevance when comparing the balance between incursus and breacher in pvp.
btw; you did note the 4th launcher on the kestrel the breacher is missing? this means the kestrel has more rocket power. if you count in the second light drone (which only makes sense when brawling, makes no sense when kiting and using light missiles) breacher will at max have the same output as the kestrel. you also need good skills in missiles and drones.

Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:

Do you want a new Rifter?????
Minmatar really need a nerf. And that new Breacher is FAR better than any incursus which was really good atm.

P.s After the HM nerf I would like to have artillery with dmg bonus on the drake. Then even Minmatar have the best long range weapon. Rofl. That is not rebalance. That is comedy.


no comment ...



so i actually went on duality and tested breacher in both light missile and rocket set up.


long range / short range
3x arbalest light missile / 3x arbalest rocket launcher

1mn limited mwd / 1mn limited mwd
small asb (7 charges) / medium asb (7 charges)
warp disruptor t2 / warp scrambler meta 4
em resistance amp. t2 / em resistance amp. t2

balist. control t2 / balist. control t2
nanofiber t2 / cpu t2
adaptive nano plating t2 (was out of fitting) / dcu t2


small web drones / hobgob t2

rigs: em & therm resi t1 + bay loading accel. t1

my missile skills are just lacking the specialisation. drone skills are lvl4
i used cn faction rockets and missiles.

the long range setup was pushing 62 dps (web drones - no dmg) according to ingame fitting tool and boosting around 75 hp every two seconds (7 charges...). i managed to pop a brawling thrasher by orbiting around 20 km, and a tristan with the same trick. though it took some time. a rail cormo literally vaporized me and he was tanking me with buffer quite comfortably. this set up was very fast but once you get tackled or the asb charges go out (which takes only 14 seconds if youre not careful) youre toast.

the brawling setup was dishing out ~ 100 dps with drones (you can actually rebuild it on tq now without drones, as the breacher has already a 5% bonus for em, therm and kin) and boosted 200 hp every 3 seconds (again 7 cycles).
i won barely (half in armor, another 2 blown and i would have been gone) against ccp foxfour in a kestrel, afterwars he told me he forgott to activate his prob mod.
this setup is as tanky as you can get without sacrificing all of your dmg. a activetanked kestrel or a long range with web would probably be your death.

both setups where totally outclassd by assault frigs and died horribly without doing any meaningfull dmg.

winter is coming and i hope to get more time for testing against all the other combat and attack frigs. so far i think breacher is good but has definitaly its weak spots. the active tank will make it more and more vulnerable as the number of combatants is rising. no buffer there. to put it in other words of a dear friend of mine:

Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:
Minmatar should be more about guerilla. Fast, hard hitting and fragile ships.


you got exactly what you wanted ;) and the harder they hit, the squishier they will get.
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
Doomheim
#431 - 2012-09-24 21:15:01 UTC
Quote:
here we go again...
i begin to wonder what you could possibly want from the changes. minmatar ships so bad, nobody wants to fly them anymore?


Well Minmatar do not know that but actually other races haven´t that op ships so that there is a ton off ships other races don´t use....
Ever tried to build something like a range Harbinger that can be equal with an arty cane? Well try it and have fun with frustration.
We engaed an arty cane fleet some days ago. Of course we jumped there and there until we engaged them at gate because at range we would be annon fodder.
Well. Cane is faster than even amarr and most caldari cruisers so wemanaged to kill one or two until they were at optimal range and away from us and as always we had to chicken out.
Actually there is almost anything to engage an arty cane or nano arty sfi. Drakes are okay here. But even drakes have probs with 3200m/s sfi.
Interceptors are dying like flies before they get close, sfi are burning with 3200 or even 3500m/s away to alpha us and so on.
The combination of awesome speed plus awesome range plus awesome alpha plus close range damage where railguns only can dream of hitting anything is tooooo much. Really.

Quote:
btw; you did note the 4th launcher on the kestrel the breacher is missing? this means the kestrel has more rocket power. if you count in the second light drone (which only makes sense when brawling, makes no sense when kiting and using light missiles) breacher will at max have the same output as the kestrel. you also need good skills in missiles and drones.


That is it. Breacher has as Brawler almost kestrel firepower but is alot more fast and has better tank. Okay super it has less range. I did not compare the breacher directly with Kestrel. I compared it directly to incursus.


hercules fitch
Fitch Foundries
#432 - 2012-09-24 22:50:07 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Marcus Gideon wrote:
19 pages?

TLDR

Why is the Incursus, which grows up to be a droning Ishkur, considered a gunboat...

While the Tristan, which grows up to be a bomber, using drones now?

This does not make sense...

No problem. Have some imagination. The engineers just gutted the inards of the drone bay and support infrastructure and constructed missile and warhead storage and support infrastructure in its place, and vice versa, or whatever. nbd. The new nemesis is not the same hull as the tristan anyway (at least atm). PLEASE IMMEDIATELY FIX THE POOR AGILITY ON THE NEMESIS BTW Smile

As for tristans plopping one sentry and camping, i doubt it would be seen much. It is a lot more training to field a sentry than light drones. And if one is going to sentry camp a gate just do it with vexors. 3 sentries > 1 sentry. As long as you have some dedicated tackle on the gate the scan res advantage of the tristans means nothing.



We have actually done the Vexors and an Ishtar with sentries thing with some success, with good bait tackle...but I was thinking the Tristan hull to be even cheaper, and with enough of them, just more funny than practical. I enjoy playing around with such silly ideas, the isk loss of a tristan would be even stupidly less than the vexor hull... which is my only loss of the month so far, too, mind you, and it wasn't much.

If it doesn't sound like a good idea, you need moar booze!

Ark Anhammar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#433 - 2012-09-25 08:41:55 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Ok I gonna bring this up here, how many gallente pilots are tired of drone/hybrid combo ships. They are the only race that doesn't get seperate weapon platform ships. Every drone ship gets a hybrid bonus (myrmidon aside) it would be nice if the drone ships were drone ships and the hybrid ships were hybrid ships. Give the drone ships drone hp bonuses, tracking bonuses, optimum range bonuses, damage bonuses, mwd speed bonuses or logistic/ewar bonuses.

I can relate to this sentiment. The closest neighbor I think that demonstrates this is Caldari, in that you have ships which are PURE missile ships and ships that are PURE hybrid platforms. I'd be nice to have more Gallente ships that'd follow this model.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#434 - 2012-09-25 10:12:39 UTC
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:
Quote:
here we go again...
i begin to wonder what you could possibly want from the changes. minmatar ships so bad, nobody wants to fly them anymore?


Well Minmatar do not know that but actually other races haven´t that op ships so that there is a ton off ships other races don´t use....
Ever tried to build something like a range Harbinger that can be equal with an arty cane? Well try it and have fun with frustration.


what makes you believe i only have a minmatar char? does it make you feel better, that i also play amarr and like the amarrian ships?
do you have a minmatarian char and have played it from frig to battleship or is your opinion only build on your pvp losses?

Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:

We engaged an arty cane fleet some days ago. Of course we jumped there and there until we engaged them at gate because at range we would be annon fodder.
Well. Cane is faster than even amarr and most caldari cruisers so wemanaged to kill one or two until they were at optimal range and away from us and as always we had to chicken out.
Actually there is almost anything to engage an arty cane or nano arty sfi. Drakes are okay here. But even drakes have probs with 3200m/s sfi.
Interceptors are dying like flies before they get close, sfi are burning with 3200 or even 3500m/s away to alpha us and so on.
The combination of awesome speed plus awesome range plus awesome alpha plus close range damage where railguns only can dream of hitting anything is tooooo much. Really.


are you talking about these canes http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17527614 ?
there is no way these were going ~ 3000m/s . with a full rack of speed implants and lvl5 navigation skills this fit goes not quite 1500. so you think they doubled their speed with off grid boosters? they flew their canes with a fitting mod and t1 weapons. so i doubt they had all needed skills at 4 or 5.
i could give you numbers on dmg as well but qe are getting of track. just let me add: when you engange a camping arty cane blob and you know about it, why are you doing it with a lot of faction frigs & cruisers and destroyers ( i mean destroyers..)?

Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:


That is it. Breacher has as Brawler almost kestrel firepower but is alot more fast and has better tank. Okay super it has less range. I did not compare the breacher directly with Kestrel. I compared it directly to incursus.



i argue that the breacher has a better tank. breacher tank is more suited for small scale (1v1 maybe up to 3v3) but the instant the kestrel brings a logi support it is in the advantage. the higher speed of the breacher only helps when keeping distance. brawling is about hammering it out at close distance. you can savely assume that you are going to be webbed and / or scrambled. even unwebbed in close distance the ships cant go for full speed, so the rockets will not have a hard time applying dmg (you can check that for your self with any rocket boat and a reaper with an ab for example. let it orbit between 3 and 5 km. when brawling against blaster boat you have to assume webs and we are inside web range- beside that, small blasters track like crazy. so where exactly was superb speed during brawling helpful?
if you want to elaborate on your incursus - breacher comparision, please do. but please include some real testing not just the old and too much repeated minmatar is winmatar argument. fyi it does not help to solve anything.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#435 - 2012-09-25 15:19:45 UTC
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:
Quote:
here we go again...
i begin to wonder what you could possibly want from the changes. minmatar ships so bad, nobody wants to fly them anymore?


Well Minmatar do not know that but actually other races haven´t that op ships so that there is a ton off ships other races don´t use....
Ever tried to build something like a range Harbinger that can be equal with an arty cane? Well try it and have fun with frustration.
We engaed an arty cane fleet some days ago. Of course we jumped there and there until we engaged them at gate because at range we would be annon fodder.
Well. Cane is faster than even amarr and most caldari cruisers so wemanaged to kill one or two until they were at optimal range and away from us and as always we had to chicken out.
Actually there is almost anything to engage an arty cane or nano arty sfi. Drakes are okay here. But even drakes have probs with 3200m/s sfi.
Interceptors are dying like flies before they get close, sfi are burning with 3200 or even 3500m/s away to alpha us and so on.
The combination of awesome speed plus awesome range plus awesome alpha plus close range damage where railguns only can dream of hitting anything is tooooo much. Really.

Quote:
btw; you did note the 4th launcher on the kestrel the breacher is missing? this means the kestrel has more rocket power. if you count in the second light drone (which only makes sense when brawling, makes no sense when kiting and using light missiles) breacher will at max have the same output as the kestrel. you also need good skills in missiles and drones.


That is it. Breacher has as Brawler almost kestrel firepower but is alot more fast and has better tank. Okay super it has less range. I did not compare the breacher directly with Kestrel. I compared it directly to incursus.





TL DR version, You're bad and you want ccp to make things easier for you.

The breacher does not have kestrel firepower, its dps is pretty damn ******.. And its not better than the incursus.. It will outperform it in some niche situations but in most situations the incursus has more sustained tank and dps.

The breacher is damn nice and should stay the way it is.

The kestrel should become less lolkite <.<

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Colman Dietmar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#436 - 2012-09-25 16:34:10 UTC
I personally am happy that Tristan is becoming a drone boat. I love the hull design and always dreamed of it becoming a strong combat ship. And I also love drones, so this is kinda perfect thing for me. =)

As for the concerns with hull legacy towards T2, Ishkur isn't quite a drone boat with the mixed bonuses and no drone damage bonus. It's more like a "more droney incursus". So Ishkur being based on Incursus hull makes perfect sense to me, unlike the idea of gallente having a missile boat.

I'd even go as far as to try turning Nemesis into a drone boat, perhaps giving it ~25 m3 drone bay instead of the torps and some bonus like "-80% drone bay volume requirement for heavy attack drones" so that instead of using missiles it would get up close and drop those ogres upon its target.
Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#437 - 2012-09-26 17:42:35 UTC
NOOOO!!!

You're making the same mistake again!

Please for Christ's sake do not decrease the total amount of slots for drone boats.

Drones don't web, they don't increase ship's survivabilitty or mobility or any kind of utility. They can only deal damage or jamm.

The slot loss is already regretable on Myrmidon because you have to drop a gun to put that bonused warfare link on it which no other Battlecruiser has to do. Not to mention the utility people could've squiezed out of that extra high.

But a frigate with a 3/3/3 layout is going to lack a lot!

So either make drones web/scram/neut decently and give them regular t2 hp and ressists or stop cutting drone boats' slots.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#438 - 2012-09-27 22:18:51 UTC

Didn't you say you had something special in mind for the Rifters' second bonus?

Any word on that?

Where I am.

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#439 - 2012-09-27 22:22:44 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:

Didn't you say you had something special in mind for the Rifters' second bonus?

Any word on that?


I phrased it ambiguously, my bad. I meant that we had something special in mind for the minmatar active tank bonus on frigates. That was the Breacher.

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Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#440 - 2012-09-28 00:05:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Milton Middleson
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:

Didn't you say you had something special in mind for the Rifters' second bonus?

Any word on that?


I phrased it ambiguously, my bad. I meant that we had something special in mind for the minmatar active tank bonus on frigates. That was the Breacher.

Have you considered changing the rifter's second bonus to something else? Right now, every single small autocannon boat has a damage and tracking bonus, which has resulted in the rifter and slasher being kind of samey. Except that the slasher is generally superior thanks to higher speed, lower sig, and 4 mid slots. Right now there is almost no reason to use the rifter over any the other ships in its class. Maybe change tracking to a falloff bonus (ala nustabber) or ROF/second damage bonus (bringing it in line with the rupture->hurricane->tempest line of ships)? Please.
Sad