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[Winter] More Combat Frigates!

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Author
Rick Rymes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#561 - 2012-11-27 07:22:05 UTC
I find those fits underwhelming because its designed to kite, not tank, you wont need 3 fitting rigs to make a kiting set up, it can out run, out dps, out range and out tank the current Rifter when fit similarly .

it can put out good damage around the 20k mark and will hit over 3200m/s cold, so why fit it as a brawler when the Incursus is superior at the task.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#562 - 2012-11-27 07:38:52 UTC
Potential Max Drone Damage Setups

[Tristan, Shield+Damage]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

75mm Gatling Rail II, Javelin S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Javelin S
[empty high slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x 5

[Tristan, Tracking Disruptor]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script

75mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
75mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x 5

You can also do some interesting stuff with just one Drone Damage Amplifier - making the td setup pretty much cap stable, or adding more EHP to the shield setup, or perhaps putting in longer range rails.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#563 - 2012-11-27 07:41:20 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Rick Rymes wrote:
I find those fits underwhelming because its designed to kite, not tank, you wont need 3 fitting rigs to make a kiting set up, it can out run, out dps, out range and out tank the current Rifter when fit similarly .

it can put out good damage around the 20k mark and will hit over 3200m/s cold, so why fit it as a brawler when the Incursus is superior at the task.

Because it can potentially neuter hybrid and laser setups as well as active armor tank setups. You can also apply damage at range and then swoop in for point at the right time. (You don't have to hold point the entire fight, just when the other guy decides he wants to bail.) Also, the tristan will be less susceptible to electronic warfare than the incursus.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#564 - 2012-11-27 07:59:51 UTC
I find 20k kiting and drones a bit counter-productive. For example when I fly a kiting comet (with rails and drones) and kite a short range ship (Thrasher for example). My prey always shoots drones when he realizes he cannot reach me. Short range ships usually make a short work of drones....and when my drones are gone, so does a sizeable chunk of my dps.

In tristan case the moment you try to get to 20k and kite, enemy will go after your drones. Although you can try micro-managing them, you won't be able to save them. They'll die before enemy dies.

So...you have to be the EHP shield for your drones if you want them to survive and kill the enemy. Which puts tristan within that webscramneutdeath zone. This fit just might work for this purpose:

[Tristan, Shield Buffer]
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

1MN Afterburner II
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Medium Shield Extender II

75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5

6.5k EHP 192 DPS with hobgoblins and rails (though you propbably won't be dealing all of it.)
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#565 - 2012-11-27 08:25:55 UTC
Rick Rymes wrote:
I find those fits underwhelming because its designed to kite, not tank, you wont need 3 fitting rigs to make a kiting set up, it can out run, out dps, out range and out tank the current Rifter when fit similarly .

it can put out good damage around the 20k mark and will hit over 3200m/s cold, so why fit it as a brawler when the Incursus is superior at the task.



Its a bad kiter though..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Rick Rymes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#566 - 2012-11-27 10:17:12 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Rick Rymes wrote:
I find those fits underwhelming because its designed to kite, not tank, you wont need 3 fitting rigs to make a kiting set up, it can out run, out dps, out range and out tank the current Rifter when fit similarly .

it can put out good damage around the 20k mark and will hit over 3200m/s cold, so why fit it as a brawler when the Incursus is superior at the task.



Its a bad kiter though..

It also looks like a bad brawler as well. maybe more drone m3 so that it has two flights, making it harder to kill the drones quickly, and an extra low slot (either added all together or by taking the utility slot and moving it) so that it can benefit armor tanking and kiting (armor mods, speed mods, damage mods).

Maybe swap the rail tracking bonus for a 5m3 per level bonus, start the hull with 25m3 then by frigate 5 you will have 2 flights, way more incentive for newbies to max the skill then (fits with the Ishkur as well).
Rick Rymes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#567 - 2012-11-27 11:27:43 UTC
Glad this forum has livened up again, hope ccp hears all the noise we are making.

Was thinking of making a discussion thread for each ship that looks undermined (Rifter, Tristan and Punisher) where we can talk in more detail about each ship we care for (this is more of a place to pine for Fozzies attention)

Would be nice to have a dedicated thread for each ship, which we could then link here whenever we need to be heard.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#568 - 2012-11-27 14:34:36 UTC
I quite like the Tristan, it will be one of my preferred ships given it’s flexibility and I like the bonuses and slot layout, fittings not so much.

It seems to have the lowest CPU and pretty much lowest powergrid of the frigates, the utility high really needs to be filled with a nos/neut and yet powergrid was remove with the loss of a high and the launchers, the launchers though never used up much grid so I find this harsh.

CPU is particularly harsh given drone upgrades and rigs are CPU intensive.

I was thinking of this (requires 1% power grid implant I believe), still 2 fitting mods makes it feel pre-nerfed and none of the other frigates seem to have this sort of issue. Dropping to ions does not even help as you still need the rigs. Just under 5k EHP and 200DPS. I figure tracking bonus may mean I can use void if I can get close.

[Tristan, DPS]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x3
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#569 - 2012-11-27 23:54:46 UTC
Alticus C Bear wrote:
I quite like the Tristan, it will be one of my preferred ships given it’s flexibility and I like the bonuses and slot layout, fittings not so much.

It seems to have the lowest CPU and pretty much lowest powergrid of the frigates, the utility high really needs to be filled with a nos/neut and yet powergrid was remove with the loss of a high and the launchers, the launchers though never used up much grid so I find this harsh.

CPU is particularly harsh given drone upgrades and rigs are CPU intensive.

I was thinking of this (requires 1% power grid implant I believe), still 2 fitting mods makes it feel pre-nerfed and none of the other frigates seem to have this sort of issue. Dropping to ions does not even help as you still need the rigs. Just under 5k EHP and 200DPS. I figure tracking bonus may mean I can use void if I can get close.

[Tristan, DPS]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x3


enjoy having meh tank, meh dps, meh speed and needing to dock up after every fight. Also Ancill's are ******* expensive atm.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#570 - 2012-11-28 10:29:46 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Alticus C Bear wrote:
I quite like the Tristan, it will be one of my preferred ships given it’s flexibility and I like the bonuses and slot layout, fittings not so much.

It seems to have the lowest CPU and pretty much lowest powergrid of the frigates, the utility high really needs to be filled with a nos/neut and yet powergrid was remove with the loss of a high and the launchers, the launchers though never used up much grid so I find this harsh.

CPU is particularly harsh given drone upgrades and rigs are CPU intensive.

I was thinking of this (requires 1% power grid implant I believe), still 2 fitting mods makes it feel pre-nerfed and none of the other frigates seem to have this sort of issue. Dropping to ions does not even help as you still need the rigs. Just under 5k EHP and 200DPS. I figure tracking bonus may mean I can use void if I can get close.

[Tristan, DPS]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x3


enjoy having meh tank, meh dps, meh speed and needing to dock up after every fight. Also Ancill's are ******* expensive atm.

Meh dps ? I don't know in which world you are playing EVE, but it's not the same than most of us play.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#571 - 2012-11-28 12:14:57 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Alticus C Bear wrote:
I quite like the Tristan, it will be one of my preferred ships given it’s flexibility and I like the bonuses and slot layout, fittings not so much.

It seems to have the lowest CPU and pretty much lowest powergrid of the frigates, the utility high really needs to be filled with a nos/neut and yet powergrid was remove with the loss of a high and the launchers, the launchers though never used up much grid so I find this harsh.

CPU is particularly harsh given drone upgrades and rigs are CPU intensive.

I was thinking of this (requires 1% power grid implant I believe), still 2 fitting mods makes it feel pre-nerfed and none of the other frigates seem to have this sort of issue. Dropping to ions does not even help as you still need the rigs. Just under 5k EHP and 200DPS. I figure tracking bonus may mean I can use void if I can get close.

[Tristan, DPS]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x3


enjoy having meh tank, meh dps, meh speed and needing to dock up after every fight. Also Ancill's are ******* expensive atm.

Meh dps ? I don't know in which world you are playing EVE, but it's not the same than most of us play.



Its blasters and drones, both being TERRBILE at applying dps. So meh.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#572 - 2012-11-28 13:05:46 UTC
Blasters (especially Neutrons that can swap to Null) and Drones apply DPS fine to scrammed and webbed targets within that range.

Really the point of the post has to post a reasonable fit with expected mods and highlight the ships major flaw in a constructive way, it’s fitting issues. A touch more powergrid and CPU will benefit all configurations.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#573 - 2012-11-28 14:41:35 UTC
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Blasters (especially Neutrons that can swap to Null) and Drones apply DPS fine to scrammed and webbed targets within that range.

Really the point of the post has to post a reasonable fit with expected mods and highlight the ships major flaw in a constructive way, it’s fitting issues. A touch more powergrid and CPU will benefit all configurations.



Agreed fittings would make it a bit better.

But imo its real problem is that it would be better off with four lows than with three highs.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Major Killz
Tr0pa de elite.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#574 - 2012-11-30 23:32:40 UTC
Shopping List

1. Kestrel x 4 (2 setups)
2. Breacher x 4 (2 setups)

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Rick Rymes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#575 - 2012-12-01 04:44:19 UTC
Major Killz wrote:


Shopping List

1. Kestrel x 4 (2 setups)
2. Breacher x 4 (2 setups)

Shopping List

1. Caracal x 8 (2 different setups)
2. Thorax x 4 (2 different setups)

Shopping List

1. Thrasher (still win!)
2. Coercer x 4 (1 setup, beam-fleet)


Lol you were so busy spreading your shopping list over all the forums, that you forgot milk and cheese.

Concentrate man P
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#576 - 2012-12-02 19:29:09 UTC
I like the change of the Tristan, it also has a bonus that helps light drones fight frigs, and keeps it from having power too close to a vexor.

The drone bay could be increase 50m3 so it can hold two flights of lights, drones unlike other weapon systems can be blown up in combat.

Gallente don't have much for misssle boats, so while some lament it is changed, I see it much better, having a ship have half missiles half hybrids isn't much for a proper missile boat or combat ship in general and is better to have mainly one weapon type.

Rick Rymes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#577 - 2012-12-03 06:46:26 UTC
Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
I like the change of the Tristan, it also has a bonus that helps light drones fight frigs, and keeps it from having power too close to a vexor.

The drone bay could be increase 50m3 so it can hold two flights of lights, drones unlike other weapon systems can be blown up in combat.

Gallente don't have much for misssle boats, so while some lament it is changed, I see it much better, having a ship have half missiles half hybrids isn't much for a proper missile boat or combat ship in general and is better to have mainly one weapon type.



Well spoken but the new Tristan has a split weapon system of drones and hyprids.

The Tristan will be damn cool, but gimmicky due to low fittings and a pointless bonus plus it is missing a slot.

I have a feeling that the Tristan will be left behind, just like the Punisher and the Rifter, which is bad since they were the original combat frigs but now are beaten and broken (Merlin got its love tho).
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#578 - 2012-12-04 10:37:47 UTC
Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads.
Rick Rymes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#579 - 2012-12-22 14:16:09 UTC
Well we were wrong about the Tristan, kicks ass.

Still want a better Rifter/Punisher.