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You have to do something every two minutes!? How terrible! Two minutes is surely not enough time to go without doing anything. What, does CCP actually expect us to pay attention while we're playing now? Good lord, what's next? Making mining fun!? How dare they!

sounds good CCP
but PLEASE give black ops, especially my panther, the ability to use the covert ops cloak. Come on, Make the Black Ops ships the lethal stike behind your enemy lines kind of ship we want it to be.
Its still weak and pitiful in all the other ways so not to worry about that. It definately has to bring a gang with it. But its standing out like a sore thumb while the rest of the gang is running around cloaked. The "improved cloak" gimps the scan resolution as well and I have to pump up a 10x skill just to make it go faster, cause Im using this gimpy so-called "improved cloak" instead of the covert ops cloak all the cool kids get to use. Cruel and useless CCP

so thot i would bring this up but what ur doing to the hulks is going to **** over null sec miners even with a bs on gaurd rats have a nasty habit of going tho tec 2 sheilds on hulks before they can be killed. so ether give hulks a better sheild or give us a ship the size of the orca with about 4 to 5 mining lazers

Covops Logi >

WOW ... CCP realized that they need a mining frigate when they move the racial mining frigates to combat frigates! Heads up! ... I hope the post in the previous dev blog/patch notes did help remembering that.

Anyway some thing I remember from my old days:
- Forget the Procurer and go straight for the Retriever
At that time an Osprey was able to mine more than a Procurer and it provided access to combat vessels. That is something to keep in mind when introducing the ore frigate and changeing the mining barges/exhumers. I.e. you might want to think about removing mining bonuses on non-ore ships at the same time.

More things to think about:
- EHP
It is possible to suicide gank a max (ore) yield hulk in high sec with a cruiser, so there is no need to decrease it further. oh, btw. a max (ice) yield hulk is even worse. In other words: fix the modules! You should be able to fit the same tank or whatever, no matter if you are mining ice or ore (or gas)

- Appealing role
Exhumers do have that (Skiff - Mercoxit, Mackinaw - Ice, Hulk - Non-Mercoxit Ore) but mining barges don't.

- Ore Bay
As somebody mentioned before, give a decent bay to all the ships, 8000 m3 for the hulk won't do, that does not even hold two cycles of its 3 strip miners (max yield)

I'm looking forward on more details on your plan for the mining frigate/mining barge/exhumer while I hope that it does inclued not only the input mentioned in this blog but also the input of discussions with some experienced miners

Sigh...For ****'s sake [facepalm]



Again, with the condescending generalisations about the playstyles of people you probably don't even know to make your argument look better. Google ad hominem, false-consensus, and/or straw-man argument sometime, then return to us.



They demonstrate nothing of the sort. They only demonstrate that it is more popular, as is only natural for a ship that is easy to get into, relatively forgiving of the usual piloting/fitting mistakes for newbies/inexperienced PvP'ers, and versatile--within its limits!*--for PvE so said newbs/inexperienced PvP'ers can make money consistently to fund PvP.

Popular because it actually, you know, works, among a plethora of legacy-designed relics that don't because CCP couldn't be arsed to iterate on their broken game for like forever and a day. This =/= overpowered, nor yet is it a legitimate reason to nerf it, especially given how useful it is--I strongly suspect--in keeping players subbed in what is arguably the most important time-frame, that of (very-)approximately 6 months to 1 year in-game.



Oh, goody! Appeal to authority! You're in such fine form today lovely Lili, I really don't see why should you have felt the need to sock-puppet so blatantly earlier? [/sarcasm]

Right, now then:

Exactly how is that statistic compiled?

Does it count as "one" clicking the module once, or every "auto-repeat" cycle? Are group-stacked modules all counted as "one," or as their full number, and if the latter, then is each cycle of each module its own "one-count?" That number also says nothing about what ships those HML IIs are actually mounted on:

Tengu has 5-6 missile slots in typical fits, and with any kind of skill, have a rate of fire almost 3 times faster than a Drake. There are good and sound reasons why it's a popular ship in PvE, where you're going to have a huge amount of weapon-activations regardless--however they're actually quantified--and missiles demonstrably make EVE's gratingly tedious and archaic PvE pass a little easier, as you needn't worry about tracking/transversal at all, and just keep in range.

That kind of implies that EVE's PvE component needs "buffing (read: complete and total ground-up re-invention)," how is that the fault of any one ship/mod?



Taking BCs down to the Drake's level would be criminal and completely game-breaking nerf, not a buff.

Indeed, they are buffing cruisers, it would seem. So what's the problem?

And no, it doesn't appear that way at all, nor yet any other way, for that matter. CCP hasn't said anything definite except that they're going to leave off BCs balancing for what will likely be at least the expansion-cycle after this next one. So kindly stop making **** up just because it appeals to your fantasy of easy-mode homogeneity among EVE's ships.

And cruisers, even as they are, if properly fit, flown, and led, and with application of smart tactics are not even close to fodder for BCs:

Yes, in a straight-up 1v1 "MASH TEH BUTAN!!111oneone!" face-brawl, a cruiser will likely die unless the BC pilot is stupid or newb--why is this a negative? Bigger shouldn't, and in EVE doesn't , equal better, but by the same token, smaller shouldn't roflbeatdown bigger unless the former is smart about it.

Fortunately EVE allows one to be/do just that. Best example from my own experience: T1 cruiser gang with RR in a free high-slot and lots of ECM drones (I <3 Vexor), but I can tell you that doing this effectively requires practise and a tight-knit, disciplined fleet, and when things go pear-shaped, then you will die horribly.

Again, this is as it should be, and if I need to explain why...

* The Drake's limits are not at all "soft." Within its niche--as a ranged tank/moderate DPS--it is quite versatile--that's what BCs are supposed to be, FFS!--but running into that wall, especially such that it can't tank the beating, will hurt a lot.

Example:

The "boss" of this escalation pretty much alpha'ed my ass, even with 90% explosive resists, and my Fury missiles--near max-skill--weren't even scratching him. Yeah, I would have liked some of that obvious massive overpowered-ness, right about there! I got urp-sploded because I couldn't keep range, simple as that. IOW, I ran into that "wall of niche." Hard.

Rest well, good ship MRV Majestic, you served long with unswerving honour! ([lolRP] MRV = Minmatar Registered Vessel [/lolRP])

I think I've hit the multi-quote limit, anyway...

Next!

How the hell would you manage that? You have over five minutes to empty it. If you can't manage that, then you've deserved the loss incurred. If you expect to do it often, use a ship that's better suited for you.

I hate to tell you this, but you can easily gank a "max yield" (aka untanked) Hulk, in high sec, with a dessie. Check the Hulkageddon killboards and you'll see plenty of examples. Using a cruiser would be overkill. :)

Wow, that's quite an assumption. And wrong. OMG there could be someone else, even more than one else, that agrees with me and not you. You are officially a tool. I'm debating whether I'm going to bother reading and responding to your lengthy post below that one. Or I may just hide your posts, or e-flip you off.

Condescending, hmm. Well, when one is told that "I fly drakes, other races BCs, among other things. I know the strengths and weaknesses" with the clear implication that that is a difference between us, and characterized as on a "Jihad", I think some snark back is appropriate. Sorry that it seems to have affected you more than None ofthe Above . He appears to be a forum alt. A rather young character with a very short corp history. So he probably has a main that for whatever reason he doesn't use for posting. Anyway I'm sure he can take some mild snark back. Afterall his snark was rather mild. None of what he said or what I said in return was ad hominem.

Also, I think you confuse "appeal to authority" with the (admitedly partially incomplete) presentation of evidence. Eve-kill stats are evidence. However, my citation of the dev twitter is open to being called out for incomplete citation to evidence. But it is not appeal to authority, because the numeric evidence is what supports the argument, not the dev status. So, if you want to say stop being lazy and link me the thread or the twitter, then that's fine. But honestly, this is a game, and unfortunately I'm not going to read back through all my posts to find which thread it was that was commenting on which dev's tweets. Sorry. I think you'll have to find it yourself and ask the valid questions you had about how it was compiled. Or just criticize me for not linking, which is fine. Regardless, it is not "appeal to authority."

Also, thank you for stating that Drakes and Tengus are easier. Yes, there is less thinking really with heavy missiles. No wonder about flight direction, angular motion, thus tracking, range of ammo . .. Just, is the target in range? If small or fast and in range use precision, if big use fury, press button. And, "what is this thing called cap?" and "why should I bother watching it for my XLSB, or MAR". So, if the Drake is so easy for new players we should just steer them all that way? I'd rather see Harbingers, Prophecys, Brutixes, Myrms, Cyclones, Feroxes . . . and all the Cruisers viable, challenging, and rewarding for those new players. So really who has the new players interests at heart between you and me?

You seem to think I am a, what was it? Oh yeah "1337-tard nullsec blob-bear piece of *****," Aside from displaying some deep seated anger you have for null-sec players ~ it also shows you know nothing about Lili or other characters I have. But I suppose you looked on Lili's eve-kill or whatever Battleclinic shows (I usually don't go there myself). So I decided to look you up. Both boards only have 1 lifetime kill and 2 lifetime losses for you. Now I could act like you and start designing what I might think are clever names for you, based on that combat history. But instead I'll wonder whether noone you have pvp'd with or against uses killboards, or more importantly that you may operate in-game on another more active character.

Finally as for the dev statments. There is this "WHY WORKING ON FRIGATES FIRST WHEN SO MANY OTHER SHIPS CLASSES ARE BROKEN?(battlecruisers in particular) " from CCP Ytterbium's post itt. I don't know how long you've been following this issue tbh. But again, I'm going to be a bit lazy and not search back through the dev statments about their concern over new players rushing past cruisers to tier 2 BCs. I'm also not going to bother finding the statements in previous blogs and dev posts where after many years they finally acknowledged that the Drake is overrepresented and does not suffer the same forced fitting choices as other ships. But they're out there. Regardless, really, why so mad? I'm the one that is sad. Addressing this problem they have put off for at least another year.

Now, in all honesty, you need to take a chill pill. You come on here accusing me of a like post with an alt. That character is not my alt. In fact I think he (she (if only)) is someone for whom english may be a second language. You also continue to throw names. You don't know what you think you know.