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New dev blog: Ship balancing summer update

First post First post
Author
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#121 - 2012-06-14 13:56:28 UTC
On the mining barge/exhumer cargo bay issue. Please keep in mind the size of T1/T2 mining crystals and the need to carry both primary and spares for each ore type that you expect to find out in the belts.

For a Hulk, this typically means 3 "used" crystals and 3-4 "new" crystals for each type (usually 3-4 different ore types in a belt). With T1 crystals, this means a minimum of 6 x 3 x 30m3 (540 m3 total), with the upper end using T2 crystals this is 7 x 4 x 50 m3 (1400 m3).

And if you are an organized person, you usually keep the T2 crystals in Medium Standard Containers, one per ore type, which are 325m3 each and hold 7 T2 crystals. So for most cases, you'll be hauling (4) of those containers out to the belts so that you have the right selection of crystals as well as spares. That's 1300 m3 of cargo space needed for crystal storage.

Alternately - you could consider reducing the size of crystals to 10 m3 for T1 and 15 m3 for T2. Which would cut the above numbers by about 1/3.
Rrama Ratamnim
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#122 - 2012-06-14 13:57:05 UTC
Severian Carnifex wrote:
And yea... i am hoping that Hulk will get EHP boost... because even in fleet you cant help it survive if you leave it like its now.
Like I said before, ORE ships are made of aluminum foil, and it just cant survive in space.
Even if you say its not for solo mining, you must make it so it can survive in space because now even the biggest fleet cant save if from alpha and it will pop in one volley.


No thats the point you get to be king of ore sucking probably more than it is even now as they said, but its not going to be a tank... meanwhile you go down to retriever level which will also get a buff and u have a battleship tank safe for highsec hulkageddon mining almost
Rrama Ratamnim
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#123 - 2012-06-14 13:58:35 UTC
ya if your hitting the new mining ships changes and a new frigate miner, why not a new miner for gas????? slightly ruggedized for wormholes perhaps with a twist liek that
Amy Elteam
No Bull Ships
#124 - 2012-06-14 13:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Amy Elteam
So much to comment on, so little time.

Just make sure the Bantam and Ibis can mount missile launchers

1) We were promised missile launching bantams back in 2001, I'm still waiting
2) Caldari noobs need to use missiles to stop wasting time on railguns.

And as for EHP on mining barges - boost the hull, not the shield or armor, make em able to survive a suicide gank if you must, but we don't want more fragile industrial ships able to permatank battleships.
Aarin Wrath
Dominion Strategic
#125 - 2012-06-14 13:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Aarin Wrath
Great blog. CCP is on a roll this year it seems Big smile
Love the new Ore Frigate. Any plans for its name?


EDIT: How about calling it the Chribba ? ... yes I am serious. The guy has done a huge amount for the EVE community.
Rrama Ratamnim
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#126 - 2012-06-14 13:59:54 UTC
Nagapito wrote:
I'm afraid the changes to the T1 electronic frigs are going to make the T2 EAF's even more irrelevant.....


i know i'd hope there gonna revise the t2 variants at the same time but i doubt they will, they'll probably do t1 make t2 irrelevant and then fix t2
None ofthe Above
#127 - 2012-06-14 14:00:13 UTC
Severian Carnifex wrote:
If I am not wrong, there is one mining Cruiser for each race.
If you are making mining Frigates non-mining,
will you do the same with mining Cruisers?????
And, will we get mining ORE Cruiser too????? Big smile


What size do you think Barges and Exhumers correspond to?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#128 - 2012-06-14 14:00:14 UTC
Tiericide is AWESOME... You have done an awesome job giving all the ships proper roles however I hope you manage to work it out faster than expected... This is the thing that will give Eve new life for everybody!!

About frigates they currently have a few problems easily solved but IMO necesary to look into:
  1. Medium autocannons especially track and hit frigates very well from 0-24km with the tracking enhancers giving 30% fall-off
  2. Battlecruisers being the most used platform for pvp having way too much EHP for frigates while being able to apply at least 5 drones and with medium weapons not suffering agaisnt frigates like battleships do.
  3. Gate guns cheat and hit a frigate for the same damage as a battleship

A few notes to the roles listed :
Plz be very carefull with the missile frigates: Rockets were recently buffed, however light missiles are horrible not delivering dps OR alpha against anything but rookie ships. The same goes for the rapid missile launchers (old assault missile launchers) who on a crusier/battlecruiser used to deal the same dps as the old rockets...
In my opinion you will make 2 of the frigates useless for pvp if you force them to rely on current light missiles as their main weapon platform :-(

For the support frigates, how will you give them a role for combat as well as for probing, scanning, anaylyzing and codebreaking? I would suggest enough hi-slots to still deal decent dps, but not enough lowslots damage mods and no weapon bonuses. Perhaps give them a full rack of unbonused weapons, a tank bonus, scan bonus and a scan resolution able to tackle stuff without stepping on the toes of the fast tacklers with dps?

The rookie ships should all be able to fit 2 guns (learn to group weapons) and a civilian rocket launcher while giving them enough medslots to fit civilian afterburner AND civilian shield booster. With the stats and fitting available for the rookie ships they are hardly a threat anyway? Just do what you can to avoid rookie ship scouts...

The new aproach on mining is perfect. No matter how little I like to mine the mining industry should be the backbone of Eve and giving them more tank wont save most of the miners anyway if people want them dead. Battleship tank seems too much, but battlecruiser tank is reasonable - this gives organised players an option to defend miners from rats and players if properly prepared.
The next step is to make belt rats fewer and stronger, give lowsec a huge boost in minerals available and give lowsec more belts to hide in and more hi-sec/lo-sec gates to make camping more difficult. Making it easier to hidem easier to protect and giving miners better rewards in lowsec will be good for Eve if you can balance it against nasty blobs of bloodthirsty pirates...

PS: I love the YELLOW mining frigate giving it an industrial look - Plz make all barges industrial yellow NOW hehe :-)

Pinky
Maul555
Xen Investments
#129 - 2012-06-14 14:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Maul555
Gankers will be pissed for sure. They will just have to up their game and use the new tier 3 battlecruisers for what they where made for. It looks like destroyers are being returned to their intended roles as anti-frig platforms instead of ultra-cheap gank ships to take out expensive exhumers.

+1 internets for you CCP
T'san Manaan
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2012-06-14 14:01:46 UTC
Peta Michalek wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
I wonder how many people are gonna complain about barges with battleship sized EHP, especially with large ore holds? I am sure there is going to be a tear or two over them. Blink


It's really not much different from what we have now - if you maximize yield on a Hulk you have no defense, if you tank properly you lose yield.



Not at all, they said they would have specialized ore holds. If i recall correctly the cargo hold expanders do not effect specialized holds only your normal cargo hold.
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#131 - 2012-06-14 14:02:42 UTC
Abigail Sagan wrote:

  • Procuror: low-sec ores (low-sec miners could use the toughest mining barge)



Low sec miners don't need the toughest mining barge. They need the most agile to let them react to threats. No barge tank will survive once tackled. Let the attentive pilot have a chance to get away and leave the AFK miners behind to be tackled.

_ _

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#132 - 2012-06-14 14:04:16 UTC
T'san Manaan wrote:
Peta Michalek wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
I wonder how many people are gonna complain about barges with battleship sized EHP, especially with large ore holds? I am sure there is going to be a tear or two over them. Blink


It's really not much different from what we have now - if you maximize yield on a Hulk you have no defense, if you tank properly you lose yield.



Not at all, they said they would have specialized ore holds. If i recall correctly the cargo hold expanders do not effect specialized holds only your normal cargo hold.


Which is something I would hope they are able to address. Cargo expansion should affect the specialized holds. That puts more of the decision into the player's hands of "do I want more cargo? more tank? more utility? more yield? etc".
Severian Carnifex
#133 - 2012-06-14 14:04:19 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Severian Carnifex wrote:
If I am not wrong, there is one mining Cruiser for each race.
If you are making mining Frigates non-mining,
will you do the same with mining Cruisers?????
And, will we get mining ORE Cruiser too????? Big smile


What size do you think Barges and Exhumers correspond to?


If you now go mining frigate -> mining cruiser -> mining barge/exumer
Then logic says they are bigger then cruiser - so BC size.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#134 - 2012-06-14 14:04:43 UTC
This is great stuff! Hulkageddon just got a LOT more challenging, and as it should be.

My vote is make the burst a sniper - something about the name just makes sense!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#135 - 2012-06-14 14:07:50 UTC
Buffing mining ships discourages teamwork.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#136 - 2012-06-14 14:08:56 UTC
Your blog isn't very clear on the time line for release. Are you saying that all the changes mentioned in the blog will be out before the Winter expansion? There is a lot of changes in the dev blog. I'm more interested in when the frigate changes are going to be released. I'm assuming that you won't be lumping everything together. Can we get a estimate of when they will be released?
Alara IonStorm
#137 - 2012-06-14 14:10:36 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Buffing mining ships discourages teamwork.

Solo Catalyst Pilots disagree with this statement.
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2012-06-14 14:11:17 UTC
This is sounding like it's gonna be good.

Not sure why people think gankers will be pissed seeing as it harldy changes anything. Just bring more catalysts. Assuming that miners will learn to tank with or without the higher base ehp...
Severian Carnifex
#139 - 2012-06-14 14:12:07 UTC
Rrama Ratamnim wrote:
Severian Carnifex wrote:
And yea... i am hoping that Hulk will get EHP boost... because even in fleet you cant help it survive if you leave it like its now.
Like I said before, ORE ships are made of aluminum foil, and it just cant survive in space.
Even if you say its not for solo mining, you must make it so it can survive in space because now even the biggest fleet cant save if from alpha and it will pop in one volley.


No thats the point you get to be king of ore sucking probably more than it is even now as they said, but its not going to be a tank... meanwhile you go down to retriever level which will also get a buff and u have a battleship tank safe for highsec hulkageddon mining almost



But you have no way of protecting your hulk fleet if they stay like they are now... use 1000 ship fleet and still you cant protect your hulk when its alpha killed few seconds after ganker warp in.
And "fleet ship" should have benefit from the fleet and it don't have the way it is now.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#140 - 2012-06-14 14:12:32 UTC
Interesting changes, though I'd like a little more clarity on when these are coming: it's hard to tell if these are inferno 1.x things or Winter 1.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.