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New dev blog: Ship balancing summer update

First post First post
Author
Overs
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#921 - 2012-08-03 14:48:46 UTC
The procurer with the faction battleship tank is stupid. Why not make it more of a ninja miner?

Procurer (Ninja Miner)

I think the advantages of this ship should be expressed in speed and agility. Also the procurer could have added defensive capability with 2-4 turret hardpoints and the extra fitting (cpu, cap, grid, and extra high slots) to handle medium turrets.

Mining Barge skill bonus per level:
5% bonus to agility (and/or velocity)
12.5% reduction to strip miner and ice harvester duration

role bonus: 2% bonus to cpu penalty of Mining Laser Upgrades per level in mining barge (perhaps for all exhumers and mining barges)

Attribute Changes
Structure Hitpoints: 1,250 HP

inertia modifier: I don't know the formula for this but I think these ships should be at least as agile as a cruiser. I imagine something like 0.525x

Ore Hold Capacity: 4,000 m3

Armor Hitpoints: 1,250 HP

Shield Capacity: 1,550 HP

Max Velocity: 170 m/sec
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#922 - 2012-08-03 19:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
CCP Tallest if you're reading this how come retriever and coveter have only 1 mid-slot each when there t2 variant has 4?
also patch notes say covetor has 50 drone bay/bandwidth for a barge i assume a typo?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
#923 - 2012-08-07 21:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Chi Quan
oops, ignore pls

-- Please like me, I'm an attention w*ore.

Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#924 - 2012-08-08 05:48:56 UTC
CCP Ytterbium,

This is how your dev blog is structured:

Opening paragraph ending with "we want to speed things up and deliver the following for winter."

Bolded heading about 'A'
stuff about 'A'

Bolded heading about 'B'

stuff about 'B'

Bolded heading about 'C'
stuff about 'C'


The conclusion from this structure is that 'A', 'B' and 'C' are all changes that are going to happen this winter. Please be more careful in the future as I had planned on these coming after December 21st, not August 8th.
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#925 - 2012-08-09 05:08:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
The changes to the attack frigates are simply amazing. New players are now more able to "explore" (for the lack of a better word) fast tackling in a more viable ship than the traditional tackling frigates (i.e. the Rifter) and decide whether training interceptors will be a goal for specialization. Mad props.

Sadly, this is a bit of a stealth-nerf to the Rifter. The Rifter was the symbol of the motto of "every ship is dangerous." It was a cornerstone of GoonFleet propaganda since 2006. It is effectively a symbol of this game - a game where even a new player can absolutely and irreversibly ruin your day. See the LEGO Rifter.

http://i.imgur.com/Dhd8o.jpg

:(

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
Phantom-Recon
#926 - 2012-08-09 05:37:04 UTC
so when is the mining frig coming out?
Kragma sonofShippon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#927 - 2012-08-09 07:35:51 UTC
This is just the latest attempt of CCP to tell us how to play the game. The developers should be required to create a new toon every year. And not join there same corps etc. They seem to have forgotten how to play the game. Most people in Hulks don't mine in groups. You should get rid of the Hulk now. There is now reason for it. My wife thanks you. This change is the straw that broke the camels back. My 3 toons time will end in 3-5 days. While I have more than enough isk to buy plexes. I won't. It time to find another game to play one where hopefully they won't screw things up every 3-6 months. Your Grade for 2012. Graphics - A, Missile change -A, Changes -F, and no your average isn't a C.
Calshim
Caldari Salvage and Scrap
#928 - 2012-08-09 13:11:59 UTC
Ok don't care about the other ships ... only the Hulk that I use !!!!

Before = Cargo bay 17580 or there abouts can't remember exact figure.

Now = ORE Bay 8500

In which REALITY IS THIS BETTER ?


IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT !!!!

Thanks for not refering to that before breaking the Hulk.

*shakes head*

chandraboy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#929 - 2012-08-11 02:48:36 UTC
this update sucks you know what you have taken 50 percent of my capacity to my hulk there is no more reason to mine any more and since that is all i have time for becauae im busi in real life this my push me wo quit with all my paid toons this change is unfiar to thos of us who do not mine afk shame on you ccp this change SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS TwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedCryCryCryCryCryCry
MIkhail Illiad
Fevered Imaginings
#930 - 2012-08-13 12:57:45 UTC
Seeing how it still hasn't been addressed and my curiosity is getting the better of me.

"The Maulus improvement consists of having a look at sensor dampening, which was nerfed too heavily in the past"

/me is intrigued

Can I get a bit more information on this rogue sentence that appeared in the devblog with regards to the t1 EAF changes, or if it has already been answered could someone point me in the direction of said words if I've derped and missed them.

There once was an interesting signature here... It has long since disapeared. 

Kayron Garr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#931 - 2012-08-13 19:39:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Kayron Garr
The ORE Frig is a nice idea, but where i can find the ship and the BPO/ BPC at these days?


[01.09.2012) I found my answer here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146069

Let it snow! :)

I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an ass of yourself. Oscar Wilde

Recoil IV
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#932 - 2012-08-15 12:03:09 UTC
Ribikoka wrote:
Dont forget to add +1 mid slot to coercer.
That's why i missed some Rupture kills :P



dont forget to add 1 slot for each destroyers Big smile
Recoil IV
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#933 - 2012-08-15 12:08:02 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Drone bays are too small, what are miners supposed to do with 3x scout drones? Wait until hisec rats die of boredom? Question

Last time I flew a unskilled miner, her 5x T1 drones were taking way long to kill rats in a 0.6 system. I think that 25 m2 should be the minimum for ships intended to solo.



you might aswell ask for more dps for pvp/pve ships claiming your target would die of boredom before you would kill
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#934 - 2012-08-16 14:08:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Idris Helion
Harvey James wrote:
CCP Tallest if you're reading this how come retriever and coveter have only 1 mid-slot each when there t2 variant has 4?
also patch notes say covetor has 50 drone bay/bandwidth for a barge i assume a typo?


T1 mining ships are for hisec and deep-blue use. T2 hulls are for more dangerous situations, and hence have more tanking ability. T1 hulls also require significantly lower skills to use effectively.

50m3 drone bay means you can carry 5 mining drones and 5 combat drones and use whatever set fits your situation without having to re-dock. The retriever only as 25m3, so you have to choose. I'd expect the Covetor to be a step up.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#935 - 2012-09-01 19:51:22 UTC
I think that the O.R.E. frigs are long over due. It never made sense to me that each race had it's own mining bonused frig and cruiser when Outer Ring Excavators was already making BPOs for barges and then eventually industrials.

As far as ship balancing goes it seems to me that you guys are way too focused on PvP. It's not that focusing on PvP is a bad thing but you seem to have done only that. I hear nothing of any consideration for any non-pvp use. Even the mining ship changes you seem to have focused on the PvP aspects almost strictly.

80+% of the people that play this game stick in high sec most of the time. PvE activities like missioning are a staple of this game. Not only do many veterans use PvE to fund their PvP habbits but noobs pretty much have to take their first losses against NPCs while working their way up through missions and learning the basic concepts of how to fit a ship. I will say it probably took me 2 years before I became good at fitting a ship and I only PvE which means I don't know how to fit a ship for any activity involving PvP and it might take me a year or better of doing PvP to learn that.

The above paragraphing being said you should keep in mind not only PvE uses but some type of progression for new players. Some examples of what I mean is that if a certain ship almost never gets used in PvP but gets used often in PvE that ship should not be considered lacking just because it's PvP uses are few. On the other hand a ship like the drake that gets used heavily in both PvE and PvP in my book is a bit of a failure.

My first toon was a minmatar. I struggled a long time with matar ships before I learned more about this game. First off guns in general are not noob friendly you basically have to fly a missile boat early on. If you focus on gunnery you can do ok in couple weeks maybe but your first week in game pretty much you have to use missiles as they are more low skill point friendly. Also the matar ships in general are not at all noob friendly but up until now they have been the 1 v 1 PvP ship of choice. If you balance all of these ships for PvP what are you going to do about all the many ways that tech 1 Matar ships suck in PvE?

Also it is just a simple fact that the resistance based bonus of the Caldari and Amarr is better for PvP. It's arguable if the boost amount bonus of the Matar and Galente ships is better for PvE and the Drake is a perfect example of what I mean. Maybe if you gave Matar/Gal ships a bonus for rep amount and hitpoints that might balance things but I'm not really sure how you could balance ships the same for everything.

In general if you make every race's version of a ship that fits a specific role exactly balanced you take away the variety and flavor that makes this game interesting and fun. Marauders are the perfect example of what I mean. They all have almost identical stats and all have boost amount bonuses. There's no Gallente drone bonused Marauder. Yes it kind of pissed me off that the Drake was so good at so many things but after I figured out how hard core Matar ships suck for noob missioning pilots I was sure glad the drake was there and just cross trained into it and ran many level 3 missions in it and worked my way into level 4's with that ship.

The one thing you must keep in mind is that no one is locked into any race. Cross training races is no big deal especially early on. If like me you are born Matar and realize how bad they suck in missions it does not take long to get into drake and become a mission running machine. DO NOT make all of these ships the same. DO NOT create roles and then give every race a ship to fill that specific role identically. If you do so you will destroy this game. Everybody should be able to stick to a race and do everything but each race needs to have strengths and weaknesses and if you want to be the best at everything you should have to crosstrain all the races.

I don't have any issue with one race being better at missioning and another race being ideal for solo PvP while a thrid race might be the best at nothing but be second best at almost everything. Just make sure that strengths are offset with weaknesses.

Examples of this are:

Amarr ship are highest DPS in game typically with awesome tanks which should make them unbeatable for PvP except they are heavy and slow and short on mids also rely totally on cap for DPS and are very susceptible to cap warfare. Further their damage is limited to EM/Therm.

Minmatar ships have paper thin tanks and often the crappiest dps of any other gun boat. Their tracking is usually lowest of the 3 gun types and almost all of their DPS is done deep into falloff so even the crap dps numbers in EFT are a gross over exaggeration of what you actually get. To compensate they are typically the fastest ships in game and have huge falloffs and their dps is immune to cap warfare. This allows the matar ships to dictate range and control the fight which usually leads to a win in 1 v 1s but lacking in fleet fights were webs and many ships exist. If you doubt me on this jump into a hurricane and go on a fleet roam and see who dies first. Hint: unless there is another hurricane in the group it's probably going to be you.

So you guys do things like speed up Galente ships so they can compete with Matar ships in 1 v 1s but fail to do anything to change the stats with the matar ships that make them substandard in every other situation.

As a note I've left faction ships like the machariel and cynabal as well as the T2 BS/Marauder with the falloff bonuses out of this as faction ships are a whole different deal and I've already expressed my distaste with the over homogenization of the Marauders.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#936 - 2012-09-01 20:05:19 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
The changes to the attack frigates are simply amazing. New players are now more able to "explore" (for the lack of a better word) fast tackling in a more viable ship than the traditional tackling frigates (i.e. the Rifter) and decide whether training interceptors will be a goal for specialization. Mad props.

Sadly, this is a bit of a stealth-nerf to the Rifter. The Rifter was the symbol of the motto of "every ship is dangerous." It was a cornerstone of GoonFleet propaganda since 2006. It is effectively a symbol of this game - a game where even a new player can absolutely and irreversibly ruin your day. See the LEGO Rifter.

http://i.imgur.com/Dhd8o.jpg

:(


I agree you can get to level 4 frig and level 4 small projectiles in no time. The rifter remaining the cheap brawler and T1 frig of choice for 1 v 1 is not a problem.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Dan Carter Murray
#937 - 2012-09-09 07:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dan Carter Murray
Drop 200 pg and 50 cpu from all minimatar cruisers

Add 200 pg and 50 cpu to all amarr cruisers

Drop 1 low slot on all minimatar cruisers

Add 1 low slot on all amarr cruisers

Add damage bonus to t1 omen

Add 10 m3 to all amarr cruiser drone bays.

Change tracking penalty from -75% on aurora to +25%

Do the same with scorch


Cruiser rebalancing completed.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com