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why don't minerbears just fly with logi?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#121 - 2012-05-31 11:10:38 UTC
Seishi Maru wrote:

You can get into worm space to make isk, you can go into a not populated lwo sec and mine in hidden belts for a reasoanble income and with more safety than high sec. You have option.. you have the sand.. but you decided that only way you want the sand is a massive ammount of it shoved in all your orifices and then complain that is not fun.


Don't you find it's a r3tarded game, when players are schooled to find safety in low / null sec and WHs, since the place funnily called "hi sec" became crapola?

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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#122 - 2012-05-31 11:12:18 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Why wouldn't a miner sit in a Healing Bat? It's no less interesting than mining.


Problem is that it's less interesting task than watching the door in w-space.

Seishi Maru wrote:
Can you realize that people DO that? And that is why they have titans and stuff like that? And You never even tied any of those things because you would know that you can mine and rat in null sec for weeks without loosing a single ship. Jsut use your brains.


Goons protect their bo... I mean miners with Rokhs. I want to see this. Big smile

Single dread can destroy all barges in belt. And when there is one there is usually a lot more of them and fleet supporting them.


Stop editing your posts like that. It's annoying to reply to.

If you don't like the idea of using a Rokh, pick one of the ELEVEN other methods of staying safe from HAG.


Goons protect their miners with enormous subcapital, capital, and supercapital fleets that they us to maintain Sov over their space. The day to day safety is created through players providing intel on unfriendly players. In other words, people in NullSec WORK FOR THEIR SAFETY. And they spend a lot more time doing it than any of my suggestions would have you spend.


A single dread can't hit the miners in the belts before they GTFO. Your conception of how EvE works is pretty idiotic.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#123 - 2012-05-31 11:13:40 UTC
Seishi Maru wrote:


that is an interestign concept that might be worth writing in more details and presenting at the correct suggestion forums. WOudl be a niec idea to forego concord rights to get selleble kill rights on gankers for like 1 week :)


Yes the best answer imo it's player driven content for BOTH sides.

I believe that if the preys actually had more tools at disposal than "lol fit like a babboon and outlive the attack" and could actually immediately shoot back then things would suddenly take a 180° turn.

I would immediately buy an hulk just to bait them into my entless fleet of canes and maels.

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Lipbite
Express Hauler
#124 - 2012-05-31 11:17:29 UTC
Because logi takes 6+ months to grow or cost 6b to buy and logi won't help against battlecruiser alpha strike anyway. And with 100m per-hulk payouts tornado is still profitable.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#125 - 2012-05-31 11:20:35 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Stop editing your posts like that. It's annoying to reply to.


How to reply to post that wasn't there before I started replying to earlier post?

RubyPorto wrote:
A single dread can't hit the miners in the belts before they GTFO.


Yes it can. It only requires that someone gets to grid with cyno ship. Rest should be easy for nullsecers.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#126 - 2012-05-31 11:20:42 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


Nobody has to do anything. He can mine in whatever thing he wants. The risk tables have simply changed.


Sure and part of your suggestions are non functional to mediate between changed risk tables and a decent desire to do menial stuff without committing like a guy whose name begins with "A", in a Mega in Amamake.

Some of the "options" are just impractical. Game needs huge amounts of low ends and your "go mine in WH" won't work on a game wide scale.
The "go mine to null" is just getting at 90 degrees and getting butt drilled, because you have to give up and OBEY to the zerg overlords whose agenda is exactly to get more drones to do their work in 0.0. If anything low sec is better. At least there's no saccent overminds telling you what you are MEANT to do in this oh-so-sandbox.

I have been invited in grav sites, they ALWAYS had an average of 3 probers a day get there in a cloakie and then try warp in gank ships. Still it's possibly one of the best choices along with missions pockets. Mission pockets are super for hi sec mining since they have some tasty features.

Neither of the above is viable to someone with some limited amount of time though. Nor is the logistics thing, I am sure that some very trivial math could reveal mining in a battleship is FAR more cost effective and can be done by somebody with limited time.


Hey, cool, you found one that you like. Go forth and mine your heart out in a Rokh.

As for the others, there are a full DOZEN of them. With Mission mining, there's a Baker's Dozen. If you don't like one you have 12 more to try until you hit one you like (like you hit on the Battleship mining).

Quote:


You TOOK AWAY options for the past month. You imposed YOUR options. Tell things straight.
The past options were stupid? OK, but don't say you did not take them away, because you did.


ONE option was given consequences. Only one. Mining Semi-Afk at a belt now has consequences that it didn't have before. It's still an option, it's just disfavored, due to the new consequences. Besides that, this is a MULTIPLAYER sandbox. It is designed such that players will step on each other's toes. Congratulations, miners in HS are having their toes stepped upon. Deal with it or get out.

Quote:

RubyPorto wrote:

If you call logging in to mine "Tedium;" WHY THE HELL ARE YOU LOGGING IN TO MINE?


I have no idea, but many people want to pay to do it and nowhere they signed they had to stay online for a minimum amount of hours in order to play hard core enough, organize logistics possibly in another sec 10 jumps away and whatever.

In the end the only options you give is to have to buy 2 accounts (max tank Hulk / battleship hold little so need hauler / need 2 accounts for logistic if you obviously won't find an idiot to sit there repping you...). This is also not a clause to be found when a player subs to EvE.

Basically this grand initiative is adding tedium, RL cost and inconvenience. That's some great achievement.


The grand initiative is making OTEC obscenely rich, adding entertainment during a lull in nullsec violence, and helping new players make Isk by ganking. When players interact, there's usually more than one story. This is a game about the stories that happen when players interact. Of course, some stories are so sad, like when people lose ships in completely predictable and avoidable ways.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
KoreanSnap PingTurtle
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2012-05-31 11:25:22 UTC
Torvin Yulus wrote:
we shouldnt have to learn how to be a healer to play in our sandbox!

wut a wimp

[u]GoonWaffe Recruitment Officer[/u]
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#128 - 2012-05-31 11:26:22 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Stop editing your posts like that. It's annoying to reply to.


How to reply to post that wasn't there before I started replying to earlier post?


Reply to different posts separately.

Quote:

RubyPorto wrote:
A single dread can't hit the miners in the belts before they GTFO.


Yes it can. It only requires that someone gets to grid with cyno ship. Rest should be easy for nullsecers.


A dread can lock a Hulk in about an hour. The Hulks will be in a POS before the cyno lands on grid (nobody mines with a neut/red in system). Unless, of course, you're predicating this wacky adventure in shooting hulks with silly things on a spy with a Cyno, and a Titan to bridge the bubblers in, and other tackle to keep the hulks there (at which point it's much less of a "single dread" doing anything). In that case, yeah a dread can do something silly with Hulks in a belt.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#129 - 2012-05-31 11:27:40 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Because logi takes 6+ months to grow or cost 6b to buy and logi won't help against battlecruiser alpha strike anyway. And with 100m per-hulk payouts tornado is still profitable.

Ever looked at the bonuses on an Osprey?

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#130 - 2012-05-31 11:29:26 UTC
Seishi Maru wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Seishi Maru wrote:



On my view concord is even too fast already. The only thing I thing Would need adjustment is that the criminal countdown should be longer when concord kills you and you should get a bit more drawbacks from being a criminal in high sec. ONLY that. The protection is more than OK nowadays. Just the consequences might be a bit on soft side.



Concord is useless in this "war" and should be optional.

You could use an evolution of today's wardec engine and hire allies. They'd completely replace Concord (i.e. you totally lose Concord defense everywhere) and like Concord they can kill inbound known hostiles who already shot to their protegees.

THIS is sandbox, THIS is player driven, not some stupid NPCs.



that is an interestign concept that might be worth writing in more details and presenting at the correct suggestion forums. WOudl be a niec idea to forego concord rights to get selleble kill rights on gankers for like 1 week :)

Go watch the fanfest footage again. Somewhere there they were taling about making a player police force to enforce the smuggling rules and replace the NPC police. This role could be expanded, if it is successful, to allow these player "deputies" to be able to take action to protect people who are being yellowboxed by someone not in their fleet.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#131 - 2012-05-31 11:30:07 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Because working with other players defeats the purpose of playing an MMO (massively multiplayer online) game


Wait... the purpose?

Holy hysteria. Lol
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#132 - 2012-05-31 11:34:50 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Reply to different posts separately.


That's called double posting and not allowed on most forums. Mostly because it uses more space in db. Usually very annoying and frowned upon.

RubyPorto wrote:
A dread can lock a Hulk in about an hour. The Hulks will be in a POS before the cyno lands on grid (nobody mines with a neut/red in system). Unless, of course, you're predicating this wacky adventure in shooting hulks with silly things on a spy with a Cyno, and a Titan to bridge the bubblers in, and other tackle to keep the hulks there (at which point it's much less of a "single dread" doing anything). In that case, yeah a dread can do something silly with Hulks in a belt.


POS helps a lot when there is few dreads around...
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#133 - 2012-05-31 11:35:33 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Because logi takes 6+ months to grow or cost 6b to buy and logi won't help against battlecruiser alpha strike anyway. And with 100m per-hulk payouts tornado is still profitable.


The payouts are 100m per Ten Hulks, so 10m per Hulk/Mackinaw. But good job paying attention, you got it within an order of magnitude. Tornado ganks aren't done for profit.

As for training time, from 0 SP, not even the SP that comes with pressing the create toon character, with no remaps or implants, a healbat rokh takes 14d to train into.

Toss most of the things down to T1 (sacrificing cap stability that you didn't actually need), and it takes 10d. Again, that's with no implants, remaps, or whatever to speed up training time.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#134 - 2012-05-31 11:40:03 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
That's called double posting and not allowed on most forums. Mostly because it uses more space in db. Usually very annoying and frowned upon.

I am

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#135 - 2012-05-31 11:40:14 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
That's called double posting and not allowed on most forums. Mostly because it uses more space in db. Usually very annoying and frowned upon.

Glad it

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#136 - 2012-05-31 11:40:32 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
That's called double posting and not allowed on most forums. Mostly because it uses more space in db. Usually very annoying and frowned upon.

Is allowed here.


TRIPLE POST!!!!

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#137 - 2012-05-31 11:42:57 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Reply to different posts separately.


That's called double posting and not allowed on most forums. Mostly because it uses more space in db. Usually very annoying and frowned upon.

Double posting is something different. Posting with quotes and not adding stuff after you've posted is called facilitating clear communication.

Quote:

RubyPorto wrote:
A dread can lock a Hulk in about an hour. The Hulks will be in a POS before the cyno lands on grid (nobody mines with a neut/red in system). Unless, of course, you're predicating this wacky adventure in shooting hulks with silly things on a spy with a Cyno, and a Titan to bridge the bubblers in, and other tackle to keep the hulks there (at which point it's much less of a "single dread" doing anything). In that case, yeah a dread can do something silly with Hulks in a belt.


POS helps a lot when there is few dreads around...


First it was a single dread on a mission to gank hulks. Now it's a few dreads and a support fleet on a Pos Bashing fleet? What did these miners do?


Anyway, the POS gives you two days to either jump your stuff out or form a defensive fleet. Again, you keep moving the goalposts, driving us further and further off the topic of how to stay safe from the ebil piewates. And in trying to move the goalposts, you demonstrate a shocking inability to grasp pretty simple game mechanics.

There are a bakers dozen methods listed on the last few pages (12 of which are in one post) to reduce the risk from suicide ganking. You're harping on one that you don't like. If you don't like it, don't use it. Pick another; or don't, I'm not your mother. Mine AFK in an officer fit Hulk, it's entirely up to you.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#138 - 2012-05-31 11:44:58 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Seishi Maru wrote:

You can get into worm space to make isk, you can go into a not populated lwo sec and mine in hidden belts for a reasoanble income and with more safety than high sec. You have option.. you have the sand.. but you decided that only way you want the sand is a massive ammount of it shoved in all your orifices and then complain that is not fun.


Don't you find it's a r3tarded game, when players are schooled to find safety in low / null sec and WHs, since the place funnily called "hi sec" became crapola?


I've been flying around HS completely AFK (well, atk for forums, EvE is minimized) for a few hours now. Nobody's so much as locked me up (have lockback to get sound from that). HS is as safe as you make it.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#139 - 2012-05-31 11:47:20 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
What did these miners do?


I don't know. Maybe they mined in nullsec. Nullsec just doesn't work the way you think. You can't just go there and mine/rat in complete safety.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#140 - 2012-05-31 11:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
RubyPorto wrote:


Hey, cool, you found one that you like. Go forth and mine your heart out in a Rokh.

As for the others, there are a full DOZEN of them. With Mission mining, there's a Baker's Dozen. If you don't like one you have 12 more to try until you hit one you like (like you hit on the Battleship mining).


No, it's not cool. I chose the two that suck less (battleship mining and mission mining).

You know why they suck?
You know why I keep harpying on you?

Because you and the other chaps just don't get it, that it has to be engaging and fun for both parties.
You only propose that preys stay preys. "Outlive the attack". "Avoid the attackers". And tralala in 12 variations of lose.
It's a suck role.

In 4 seconds, instead, I posted how to improve the game by reusing a now existing mechanic (ally mercs) in order to make the prey into a saw toothed prey that can snap back and all of this using fully human-zero-NPC player made content.

I bet you have never been the paid protector who can do NOTHING to avoid a friend with 4-5 macks lose 1 or even them all.
You were there, ready, with combat ships and yet they can come and do WTF they want. Only -10 gankers can be dealt with before they open fire, and even then it takes some serious SEBOing + alpha ship but that has also to track well enough.

With my idea they come and get butt-r4ped and *I* get 100M for every 10 of them that die. Oh noes they also will have p!ss annoying consequences. All 2.5M per subsidized anyway ship of them.


RubyPorto wrote:

ONE option was given consequences. Only one. Mining Semi-Afk at a belt now has consequences that it didn't have before.


I don't contest it was a stupid option, but "ONE" does not reflect it is the option 95% chose. So, yes, rightly or not, you still practically removed the most chosen option by far and large.
I am not saying you did good or bad, I can totally relate to the reasons to remove it, but still you nerfed the top used option.


RubyPorto wrote:

The grand initiative is making OTEC obscenely rich, adding entertainment during a lull in nullsec violence, and helping new players make Isk by ganking. When players interact, there's usually more than one story. This is a game about the stories that happen when players interact. Of course, some stories are so sad, like when people lose ships in completely predictable and avoidable ways.


I am less poetic than you are - being a EvE and RL finance guy I have my fair experiences in sons of a b*tch.
Had goons openly stated their OTEC interest instead of that Messiah-quasi-Goebels-quasi-James 315 rant by Mittani on that external website, then they'd appear much less epic but more straight and would certainly attracted more sympathy by outsiders and free thinkers like me.

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