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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

First post First post First post
Author
Lordess Trader
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
#441 - 2012-05-24 12:42:45 UTC
Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:
May O'Neez wrote:
IMHO main issues remaining are lag and the shift-click CCP obsession. Both will be gone "soon" (tm), these are proof that they actually take remarks into account.

Yesterday I was able to setup the new inventory in a fashion pretty similar to the previous for several scenarios I care (mission / salvage / hauling / pos), and except the 2 issues mentionned above and a bunch of little annoyances (already mentionned by lot of people above: size, order of items, loot all, ...), it is OK for me. I mean, that is is POSSIBLE to have almost the same as before, and it will (I'm pretty optimistic for a change, and I assume that :D). No need of revert, the only mistake was to release too early, and about this I think that we can agree.



To CCP Arrow:

Do you see the issue?
- Pilots willing to put up with this 'improvement' are plowing thru this mess to set up their preferences as they were before the expansion.

This 'improvement' degrades performance, and annoys many pilots who aren't even power users for trade, POS management, etc.

For pity's sake! Is there not enough "I told you so" from Test Server Feedback and from all of these Threads?


They understand that we want certain things like the old system, but people whining about wanting the old system isnt the solution, they already said they will bend and tweak the new system to be as good and then better than the old system...

The old system was a rats nest, and was SLOWER, i hate to say this yes it lags at pos's but there working on that... but in stations with thousands of items this is INSANELY faster.
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#442 - 2012-05-24 12:44:34 UTC
Kblackjack54 wrote:
Great Stuff Snipped.


IT just One Big Bag of Awful, no matter how you slice it. They flail themselves out of business; we shall watch, I guess.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
#443 - 2012-05-24 12:47:45 UTC
<3
May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
#444 - 2012-05-24 12:59:36 UTC  |  Edited by: May O'Neez
Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:
May O'Neez wrote:
IMHO main issues remaining are lag and the shift-click CCP obsession. Both will be gone "soon" (tm), these are proof that they actually take remarks into account.

Yesterday I was able to setup the new inventory in a fashion pretty similar to the previous for several scenarios I care (mission / salvage / hauling / pos), and except the 2 issues mentionned above and a bunch of little annoyances (already mentionned by lot of people above: size, order of items, loot all, ...), it is OK for me. I mean, that is is POSSIBLE to have almost the same as before, and it will (I'm pretty optimistic for a change, and I assume that :D). No need of revert, the only mistake was to release too early, and about this I think that we can agree.



To CCP Arrow:

Do you see the issue?
- Pilots willing to put up with this 'improvement' are plowing thru this mess to set up their preferences as they were before the expansion.

This 'improvement' degrades performance, and annoys many pilots who aren't even power users for trade, POS management, etc.

For pity's sake! Is there not enough "I told you so" from Test Server Feedback and from all of these Threads?



I think that we can accept little steps. Amazing feedback from the Crucible expansion showed that: a bunch of little things make people BIG happy. So a big step is not a very good idea if people loose too much insight to hang on their playstyle, specially if they are the old-timer ones x)

The goal of my post above was to show that the new inventory may one day be able to do the same as the old, it is I admit a petty essay to convince people that new is not so bad. And perhaps also to try to convince myself, also, since I forced myself to actually do these tests. But not sure that is is "good" as long term solution, better would be to embrace the new system to make something better than before.
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#445 - 2012-05-24 13:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Fabulousli Obvious
May O'Neez wrote:



I think that we can accept little steps.

The goal of my post above was to show that the new inventory may one day be able to do the same as the old, it is I admit a petty essay to convince people that new is not so bad.



I'm just glad my Plumber did not have this attitude when replacing my broken toilet.

It breaks a fundamental RULE of business and CCP is doing spectacularly well at it.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

nardaq
Orion Expeditions
#446 - 2012-05-24 13:07:57 UTC  |  Edited by: nardaq
CCP Guard wrote:
I went through the thread and deleted rants, off topic posts, personal bickering between posters,personal attacks, trolls and flames.

We are trying our best to gather feedback here so please post constructively and don't clutter the thread with posts that don't further the discussion. Feel free to be critical, but be polite and try to make your post count for something. Thank you!


You got the feedback already from day one with the new Unified Inventory on sisi and yet again you put it live on tranq. with 90% hating it

You have your habit (again) to ignore people state about new things and put it online anyway. I sure hope (for now) another 10k subscribers are quiting because you doing your own way again. I'm also not even bothering to play eve anymore due to this inventory crap and yes I'm a miner.

For now i don't even bothering touching UI until,
* EVEY window is saved and stays there.
* open cargo/hanger/ore/fuel/ship bay is back in neocom and "for the love of god" not opening on a existing UI.
* even better, able to disable Disable UI

Only thing good about it is the filter, NOTHING more. Now stop trying to fix things around the clock (renaming pos mods) to keep us working with the UI.
Nocturrne Primitive
Evil Young Flesh
#447 - 2012-05-24 13:08:10 UTC
Sorry, we want the old system back. Just do it.

I need my individual hanger, items, ship cargo, etc. Having to dig for them and reopen them constantly has killed this game for me. As a miner, this game is dead for me until you fix it.

Please fix it before I need to decide to resub or not...

Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#448 - 2012-05-24 13:09:25 UTC
Nocturrne Primitive wrote:


Please fix it before I need to decide to resub or not...




Go ahead. Make the call. Don't be afraid. I did.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#449 - 2012-05-24 13:10:00 UTC
Lordess Trader wrote:
Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:
May O'Neez wrote:
IMHO main issues remaining are lag and the shift-click CCP obsession. Both will be gone "soon" (tm), these are proof that they actually take remarks into account.

Yesterday I was able to setup the new inventory in a fashion pretty similar to the previous for several scenarios I care (mission / salvage / hauling / pos), and except the 2 issues mentionned above and a bunch of little annoyances (already mentionned by lot of people above: size, order of items, loot all, ...), it is OK for me. I mean, that is is POSSIBLE to have almost the same as before, and it will (I'm pretty optimistic for a change, and I assume that :D). No need of revert, the only mistake was to release too early, and about this I think that we can agree.



To CCP Arrow:

Do you see the issue?
- Pilots willing to put up with this 'improvement' are plowing thru this mess to set up their preferences as they were before the expansion.

This 'improvement' degrades performance, and annoys many pilots who aren't even power users for trade, POS management, etc.

For pity's sake! Is there not enough "I told you so" from Test Server Feedback and from all of these Threads?


They understand that we want certain things like the old system, but people whining about wanting the old system isnt the solution, they already said they will bend and tweak the new system to be as good and then better than the old system...

The old system was a rats nest, and was SLOWER, i hate to say this yes it lags at pos's but there working on that... but in stations with thousands of items this is INSANELY faster.


Hello Lordess:

If the new system is working well for you I'm glad; truly! For my main, and other pilots in my main's corp, it has not been so. IMHO the new system is built upon a false premise:
-- All inventory, in all cases, is of equal importance no matter the location of the items, the types of items, or the circumstance in which one accesses inventory.
-- Sorry but on this we disagree
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#450 - 2012-05-24 13:13:19 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
When dragging and dropping to other containers please make the timer to auto show / expand take longer..

Its extremely irritating that it loads to other container when you are moving from a location to another one..

This should be a simple number in miliseconds somewhere in the code... Just make it either something we can chnage ourselves, or make it take a bit longer, so we dont loose our current view.


Confirming that this one drives me nutzo. If I'm dragging and dropping into a particular location on a tree, it should not expand the tree until at least 4-6 seconds have passed. This is especially annoying if there is any UI lag going on where you need to wait 1/2 a second for the UI to catch up and the mouse pointer to verify that it is in the proper location.

Also, a drag-and-drop operation does not mean "change my focus to the new container". Half the time, when I drop stuff on a target location, the UI decides to make that container my current focus. And since there are no bread-crumb trails or "back" button, I have to go figure out which container I was pulling from during a sort-out.
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#451 - 2012-05-24 13:16:54 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
When dragging and dropping to other containers please make the timer to auto show / expand take longer..

Its extremely irritating that it loads to other container when you are moving from a location to another one..

This should be a simple number in miliseconds somewhere in the code... Just make it either something we can chnage ourselves, or make it take a bit longer, so we dont loose our current view.


Confirming that this one drives me nutzo. If I'm dragging and dropping into a particular location on a tree, it should not expand the tree until at least 4-6 seconds have passed. This is especially annoying if there is any UI lag going on where you need to wait 1/2 a second for the UI to catch up and the mouse pointer to verify that it is in the proper location.

Also, a drag-and-drop operation does not mean "change my focus to the new container". Half the time, when I drop stuff on a target location, the UI decides to make that container my current focus. And since there are no bread-crumb trails or "back" button, I have to go figure out which container I was pulling from during a sort-out.
The scenario and behaviors described above are a big usability challenge. Scrapyard Bob hints at an interesting feature suggestion: the breadcrumb trail. This is especially useful if we are to be stuck with the one window paradigm.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

FleetAdmiral Gruffel
Gruffel Inc.
#452 - 2012-05-24 13:23:48 UTC
WHY!?! JUST WHY!?!
Why the bloody frakking hell do you mess around with things that work PERFECTLY fine, when there are hundreds of real issues out there!?!
WHAT THE FRAKK!
Rengerel en Distel
#453 - 2012-05-24 13:24:43 UTC
Short Term Fixes:
1) Remember window state and position. If I had My Filters minimized, it should stay minimized. If i want the window in the top left, it should be there each time. Etc.
2) When you open a new window, the tree view should be minimized. There are more cases where you only want to see that window, than cases where you are opening it up for a new tree view.
3) You should be able to right click a container and loot all from the overview. There is no need to open the window, then click loot all, then close the window 99% of the time. The same checks for distance, rights, etc. can be done at that time.

Long Term Fixes:
The UI elements should be client side, and we should be able to mod them. Not everyone uses the UI in the same way, and trying to make one thing that fits everyone will never work. We should be able to change child window sizes, remove borders, change button positions, etc. Why have an option to add text in the quickbar, then limit the size of the quickbar so you can't see the text?

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#454 - 2012-05-24 13:29:20 UTC
May O'Neez wrote:
Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:
May O'Neez wrote:
IMHO main issues remaining are lag and the shift-click CCP obsession. Both will be gone "soon" (tm), these are proof that they actually take remarks into account.

Yesterday I was able to setup the new inventory in a fashion pretty similar to the previous for several scenarios I care (mission / salvage / hauling / pos), and except the 2 issues mentionned above and a bunch of little annoyances (already mentionned by lot of people above: size, order of items, loot all, ...), it is OK for me. I mean, that is is POSSIBLE to have almost the same as before, and it will (I'm pretty optimistic for a change, and I assume that :D). No need of revert, the only mistake was to release too early, and about this I think that we can agree.



To CCP Arrow:

Do you see the issue?
- Pilots willing to put up with this 'improvement' are plowing thru this mess to set up their preferences as they were before the expansion.

This 'improvement' degrades performance, and annoys many pilots who aren't even power users for trade, POS management, etc.

For pity's sake! Is there not enough "I told you so" from Test Server Feedback and from all of these Threads?



I think that we can accept little steps. Amazing feedback from the Crucible expansion showed that: a bunch of little things make people BIG happy. So a big step is not a very good idea if people loose too much insight to hang on their playstyle, specially if they are the old-timer ones x)

The goal of my post above was to show that the new inventory may one day be able to do the same as the old, it is I admit a petty essay to convince people that new is not so bad. And perhaps also to try to convince myself, also, since I forced myself to actually do these tests. But not sure that is is "good" as long term solution, better would be to embrace the new system to make something better than before.


Hello May:

Seems you have a satisfactory set of work-arounds and I'm glad for you.

For my main, and for the pilots in my main's corp, this isn't the case. Pilots with play styles requiring minimal interaction with inventory management find this system to be nonsense. Nonproductive, time-consuming steps are now required to perform the same activities.

We choose not to embrace this new system. It is in a state that is a barrier to our game play. Let CCP embrace the system on the test server. IMHO that is where this belongs; brought in-game in an incomplete condition so flawed that it detracts from game play for a significant number of pilots.

Best of luck. Ad'H
N3LLY
Reverberation Inc
#455 - 2012-05-24 13:29:51 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
I went through the thread and deleted rants, off topic posts, personal bickering between posters,personal attacks, trolls and flames.

We are trying our best to gather feedback here so please post constructively and don't clutter the thread with posts that don't further the discussion. Feel free to be critical, but be polite and try to make your post count for something. Thank you!


FEED BACK for you IT IS CRAP a big pain in the ass

now im RANTING Evil carnt play the game i pay for because you put this massive bug in it called Evil unified inventry Evil

[b]UI IS CRAP GET RID AS SOON AS POSSIBLE P.S. [/b]CAN I GET A REFUND FOR LOST GAME TIME ?

May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
#456 - 2012-05-24 13:31:43 UTC
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
May O'Neez wrote:



I think that we can accept little steps.

The goal of my post above was to show that the new inventory may one day be able to do the same as the old, it is I admit a petty essay to convince people that new is not so bad.



I'm just glad my Plumber did not have this attitude when replacing my broken toilet.

It breaks a fundamental RULE of business and CCP is doing spectacularly well at it.



Just to clarify my post: the new UI was *NOT* a little step, I agree with you, this is not compliant with promises (but on this case, perhaps also they underestimated that as a gap, oops). And I'm not trying to sell stuff (and not being a plumber :D), just thinking that panic is not a "good thing".
Scarlet Johansen
Hiata Omega Zeta
#457 - 2012-05-24 13:31:45 UTC
im all for new things and improvements but as it is now its made life in eve harder.
Shift clicked windows need to stay where u put them and stay open (or re-open when docked), the unified inv needs to open up with all trees collapsed not fully opened, and maybe stay where they are when logging back on for us multi account players. yet more stuff to do each log on Sad

also i noticed the item 'paste' function does not work after 'cut'

we need a lot of the functionality from small windows instead of massive inv screen in our way, multiple small windows is more efficient than clicking between Views in one window!

there are some nice new features for the new system, but this shud have been a new Assets Control system not 'everyday use' inventory replcament
Rammix
TheMurk
#458 - 2012-05-24 13:33:07 UTC
Marcus Aurelijus wrote:

So why would you go and suggest that the devs would like to see it or implicitly say players would be really cool for posting such a thing?

Marcus

Not instead the main text, but as addition to it, in the end of a post.
It helps to quickly get main points just to know whether this post is a flame/whining or something useful. Your posts may all be useful and consistent, but some people tend to use too much text instead of using thesis form.
For example, someone posts wall of text with very detailed explanations of his ideas, then, below it, writes "tl;dr" text as thesis - so that reader could look through tldr and decide whether to read the huge mass of text or not. Maybe devs read absolutely everything, but I don't think they feel comfortable with all those "essays".

e.g.:

bla bla bla
bla bla bla
bla bla bla

tl;dr?
bla 1
bla 2
bla 3

Though, I don't believe that people would want to try to change readability of their messages. The post you quoted was more like a joke.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread

May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
#459 - 2012-05-24 13:34:24 UTC  |  Edited by: May O'Neez
Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:
Seems you have a satisfactory set of work-arounds and I'm glad for you.


Not sure that a "work around" is really satisfactory, but I've chosen to cope with it, waiting for fixes ...

*cross fingers*
James Razor
RazorEnterprise
#460 - 2012-05-24 13:35:23 UTC  |  Edited by: James Razor
I actually get the impression that since they released this, CCP acts like someone having his fingers up his ears and singing loudly: I am so awesome, i know all best, i can never fail.

Srsly, WE TOLD YOU.

I was so pissed about this that i even did write a (very upset) Ingame Mail to CCP Paradox (i think) on SiSi to tell him how much i hate the new system. Not to mention the new Shaders for Amarr Ships. (which still have the wrong logos on most T2s)

You should have at least fixed the most annoying stuff right when we started complaining about in the Test Server Feedback Thread, but no, you had to put it on TQ as broken as it is.

From what i experienced with the Inventory until now, i simply dont see a way in actually fixing this to a point where we will have all features from the old on in it that we now miss so dearly.

While it has some features that might be usefull, the basic concept is flawd. As someone above pointed out, not everything that u can now access through the single window has the same priority. There might be stuff that u want allways open and in a seperate place and other stuff u just need from time to time.
And i no way i want my cargohold popping up and taking ages to load while on roaming if i just want to check how much ammo i got left. Not to mention that all these +extras+ u added to the window now take space on the screen. And not all of us are running on 15 Monitors tbh.

From my point of view CCP needs to roll back to the old system ASAP and than try to improve the U.I. to a point where it becomes a usefull, ADDITIONAL tool (for example as replacement for the asset-window) together with the community.

And btw.: I am honest about my Sig. 2 Accs running out in 9 days or so, the 3rd a couple of days later. I realy thought you (CCP) would have been wise enough by now to realize that you can no longer act this way. Your attitude towards your customers is still your worst enemy at the moment.

Old Bitter Veteran.