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(Proposal) Cloaky reds in system & Macro miners in Eve, how to make life harder for them.

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Author
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#81 - 2012-05-21 07:31:42 UTC
Hun Jakuza wrote:
Another cloaker expert alt with 1 kill and 18 losses.


LOL
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-05-21 16:35:16 UTC
Hehron wrote:
Simply let the game disconnect after 30 mins or so, when the mouse or keyboard haven't been used !


Then just jam something in the keyboard & afk cloaky's can continue business as usual!


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Dawn Flare
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-05-23 05:46:10 UTC
Just noticed something as I was watching the realtime gamelogs in the client looking for funny stuff after patch....

05:32:54 svc::gameui notice I am now AFK after being idle for 601 seconds.
05:35:11 svc::gameui notice I am no longer AFK after being idle for 736 seconds.

Game already knows when you are afk, and isn't telling us out of a conscious choice.
Yelena Fedorova
#84 - 2012-05-23 07:10:20 UTC
Dawn Flare wrote:
Just noticed something as I was watching the realtime gamelogs in the client looking for funny stuff after patch....

05:32:54 svc::gameui notice I am now AFK after being idle for 601 seconds.
05:35:11 svc::gameui notice I am no longer AFK after being idle for 736 seconds.

Game already knows when you are afk, and isn't telling us out of a conscious choice.


do you see this notice on other players as well or just yourself
also cloaking is fine
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#85 - 2012-05-23 07:59:45 UTC
Hun Jakuza wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
If someone is worried about an AFK cloaker, they should move back to HS.

AFK cloakers cannot harm anyone. They cannot do anything except maybe fly in a direction really slowly.

If you are in a system and hiding from someone who may or may not be AFK, you are the only one responsible for your own cowardice.


Also, the OP mentions macros.
An AFK timer will have zero effect on macro bots. Bots can easily simulate realistic mouse and keystrokes. Otherwise they would be so easy to fins and ban.


Another cloaker expert alt with 1 kill and 18 losses.
Where you flying ? Let's check what will be happening when i go there with a cloaker alt. Checking you cowardice when you cant go to make isk.
Just when i was in Khanid low sec (three lvl4 agents was there). In the first day, the local was 38. I just got some kills and two weeks later the local decreased to 12.
Four weeks later the local decreased to 3. Most of time i was there in AFK. Sometimes i just dropped out some cheap scanner probes, but i didn't scan and mission runners docked up instantly. Probes in space :P
This is the real AFK terror. Enemy players dont know the status of AFK player, they dont know ambush when starting. Not all pilots playing in same time. Sometimes easy to catch one or two peoples there, who do a mistake. Sometimes they want to make a trap or something to kill cloakers, but against smart pilots who has intel or using a spies, that's useless thing and experienced AFK cloaked player uncatchable.
But the AFK terror is working, i used this tactic many times with successful. Everytime where i was in AFK cloak, activities on local drastically decreased after few days.
So, dont tell me, AFK cloakers does not have effect on active players.


Agreed.
Dawn Flare
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-05-23 09:11:35 UTC
Yelena Fedorova wrote:
Dawn Flare wrote:
Just noticed something as I was watching the realtime gamelogs in the client looking for funny stuff after patch....

05:32:54 svc::gameui notice I am now AFK after being idle for 601 seconds.
05:35:11 svc::gameui notice I am no longer AFK after being idle for 736 seconds.

Game already knows when you are afk, and isn't telling us out of a conscious choice.


do you see this notice on other players as well or just yourself
also cloaking is fine

Only noticed it myself, and only in the client log(through ctrl-alt-shift-m), how ever, it indicates that the do track this, and have a state for it that they are deliberately not sharing.

And yes, cloaking is fine.
nestafarios
stooge in plain sight
#87 - 2012-05-23 15:38:16 UTC
Isn't it a better idea to have maybe a destroyer (or something) class ship that is capable, with training, to seek out the general location of a cloaked pilot, not necessarily exact but close enough to use something like flack charges to de-cloak once the subject is found? so that your buddies can come in and kill the threat once it is uncloaked?

this would bring a positive defense aspect to the game of 00 camped systems and also bring a new class of ship or utilize a under utilized ship class, training, and would make the AFK cloak-er have to pay attention to their AFK cloaked toon, making them have to move around once the saw that there was a threat to their afk-ness, thus they would no longer be AFK but active in system.

This could also have a positive effect on bringing mre fights, as well as bringing care bearing toons to a level of home defense rather than just "oh crap we have a cloaked red in system safe up and sit" for the rest of the day.
Akatenshi Xi
Elite Shadow Society
ESS Empire
#88 - 2012-05-23 20:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Akatenshi Xi
1. If you are worried about ''server load'' or ''system load'' then why aren't you worried about CCP's web servers having to serve your digital crap threads that don't even look like they are composed by someone competent enough to play EVE let alone ***** about what is wrong with it.

2. CCP can't get rid of macros, botters, whatever you want to call it. Someone will always do it, someone will always write another program or find some sort of exploit --- But to think that somewhere in your little head lies the answer to a problem that has plagued EVE Online and CCP for years... That is a bit ******** when you consider they probably have hundreds of people working on every part of the game, including security and how to stop current macros and bots and be ready to spot new ways people are doing it. What, you thought they don't employ these kinds of people?

3. You aren't going to get rid of botters/macros/hackers/cheaters or whatever else you want to call them. It isn't happening. Why? There is always another proxy server, there is always a new exploit every time you update your purdy lil game, and there are always young and eager coders out there waiting to see what they can achieve with their skills and even worse, those who will pay to get a working program to have that extra edge in game. Also, you can't prove someone is botting in the first place if all this is nothing more than ''oh you did action A, B, C, and D. You must be a bot.''. People have schedules and sometimes play at the same times every day, some don't want anything to do with anyone else in the game and just want to be left alone and have their fun doing whatever, and no they don't feel the need to speak to you in local, private, or mail. And the same actions a bot or a macro would take if engaged by a player would probably be the same **** a person would do, I.E. warp off to a station and dock up to safety, warp somewhere else, or log off. If you were a miner wouldn't you save your **** too? Thought so.

Sure you can do whatever, ban people, spy on their accounts, track them, look through all their stuff. In the end you are probably going to alienate more users who are actually not using bots than actually reducing the bot population. Team that with all of these crap ''expansions'' that continually need patch after patch after patch and this could end up a pretty hollow community. WoW and EVE won't be the only half-way decent MMO's forever, there will be others.
Dawn Flare
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-05-24 06:34:33 UTC
Akatenshi Xi wrote:

2. CCP can't get rid of macros, botters, whatever you want to call it. Someone will always do it, someone will always write another program or find some sort of exploit --- But to think that somewhere in your little head lies the answer to a problem that has plagued EVE Online and CCP for years... That is a bit ******** when you consider they probably have hundreds of people working on every part of the game, including security and how to stop current macros and bots and be ready to spot new ways people are doing it. What, you thought they don't employ these kinds of people?

Just FYI, there are 3 people on the security team. CCP Sreegs, Stillman, and someone else who I can't remember. Thats it.

The company has around 500 total people working on everything, EVE, DUST, and WOD, as well as community teams, GMs, Executives who come up with stupid ideas to try and make sure their jobs are safe, etc.

And the rest of your post sounds like you are trying to justify botting. You wouldn't be trying to justify botting, would you?
Akatenshi Xi
Elite Shadow Society
ESS Empire
#90 - 2012-05-25 01:50:26 UTC
Be that as it may, Dawn, I am pretty sure that those working on all of these projects, where relevant, keep in mind security and making it more difficult to use macros/bots if possible so long as it doesn't mean compromising the game itself to where it is no longer enjoyable to play I.E. Captchas every 30 minutes in game or else you get logged out, etc..

This is the same as any other business ensuring that its employees understand the importance of customers not being allowed to simply ''walk off'' with product and not pay for it --- Like people who bot. Unless they practice business entirely different then they do in most places modern places in the world then it would make complete sense for one to assume that memorandums are sent out as reminders and as new information is collectively gathered as well as meetings etc, etc..

You would be very narrow-minded to think that an international company wouldn't be concerned about this to some extent and do the same things small family run businesses do right on up to top businesses. Are you saying something about CCP in that merely 3 people are the only force that even thinks or tries to help security in EVE Online in relation to botting/macros? Someone had to put those 3 people you mentioned in their position did they not? Which leads me to believe there is at least a 4th person who does something to try to ensure that bots and macros are not used in the game. You would be a fool to think that if upper or middle management was so concerned about this that only 3 people in the entire company worry about this or try to help in this matter actively as part of their normal day-to-day job - Just because 3 individuals are specifically given a specific positions to solely work on this or have it listed that this is part of their duties among other things is in a way to show us the consumer that something is being done about it instead of saying nothing. Or did they mess up and it would have been better if they never said they had anyone appointed in any capacity to address this?

And last time I checked they had 600 +/- employees and that was years ago. Now they have DUST, WOD, and EVE on top of those two little pet projects that simply dwarfs them entirely. Plus all of the related **** that goes without saying and keeps most of this spinning - The GMs, IT Techs, Customer Support, etc..

If I wanted to justify botting I would do so. What I was saying in the post, clearly, is that you cannot stop it, you will only delay it, period. Let me make it simple for you - CCP can't even manage to release an expansion that works how it should, let alone fix bugs and improve small things most other games don't let get released because they actually fix the **** or make sure it is done correctly the first time with the end result being what they want put out on the market. And you think that they can handle botting or macro users? Well I don't, and I spoke my mind whilst considering the aforementioned and many other things.

In fact, it completely eludes me why they don't STOP putting new stuff into the game and START fixing everything that is wrong with the game, broke, etc. STOP adding new ****, START fixing **** that has been around for years.

Think of it this way - If you stack **** on top of ****, what do you have? A big pile of ****. Stop stacking **** CCP. You can't tell me there are errors in the game that haven't been fixed or are solely related to the newest expansion and not a previous one where the bug, exploit, or whatever is screwed up and was simply forgotten or wasn't more important than a new ship in the game with its own sets of problems it could potentially create considering every time you release something new ITS ALWAYS FRAKKED UP and you have to release multiple patches to fix it because you DON'T test it or DON'T test it extensively enough period.




Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2012-05-25 11:13:48 UTC
Hun Jakuza wrote:

Just when i was in Khanid low sec (three lvl4 agents was there). In the first day, the local was 38. I just got some kills and two weeks later the local decreased to 12.
Four weeks later the local decreased to 3. Most of time i was there in AFK. Sometimes i just dropped out some cheap scanner probes, but i didn't scan and mission runners docked up instantly. Probes in space :P
This is the real AFK terror. Enemy players dont know the status of AFK player, they dont know ambush when starting. Not all pilots playing in same time. Sometimes easy to catch one or two peoples there, who do a mistake. Sometimes they want to make a trap or something to kill cloakers, but against smart pilots who has intel or using a spies, that's useless thing and experienced AFK cloaked player uncatchable.
But the AFK terror is working, i used this tactic many times with successful. Everytime where i was in AFK cloak, activities on local drastically decreased after few days.
So, dont tell me, AFK cloakers does not have effect on active players.


They have an effect on them. Who says something else it lies.
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2012-06-01 21:27:29 UTC
nestafarios wrote:
Isn't it a better idea to have maybe a destroyer (or something) class ship that is capable, with training, to seek out the general location of a cloaked pilot, not necessarily exact but close enough to use something like flack charges to de-cloak once the subject is found? so that your buddies can come in and kill the threat once it is uncloaked?

this would bring a positive defense aspect to the game of 00 camped systems and also bring a new class of ship or utilize a under utilized ship class, training, and would make the AFK cloak-er have to pay attention to their AFK cloaked toon, making them have to move around once the saw that there was a threat to their afk-ness, thus they would no longer be AFK but active in system.

This could also have a positive effect on bringing mre fights, as well as bringing care bearing toons to a level of home defense rather than just "oh crap we have a cloaked red in system safe up and sit" for the rest of the day.


Great ideas.
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-06-02 13:23:48 UTC
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Raging YarrX wrote:
Remove local! Think about the server resources that could be saved.


No. Add to AFK tag to local or kick AFK players from game that could be save server resources.


AFK tag in Local, brilliant!
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-06-02 13:24:48 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:
nestafarios wrote:
Isn't it a better idea to have maybe a destroyer (or something) class ship that is capable, with training, to seek out the general location of a cloaked pilot, not necessarily exact but close enough to use something like flack charges to de-cloak once the subject is found? so that your buddies can come in and kill the threat once it is uncloaked?

this would bring a positive defense aspect to the game of 00 camped systems and also bring a new class of ship or utilize a under utilized ship class, training, and would make the AFK cloak-er have to pay attention to their AFK cloaked toon, making them have to move around once the saw that there was a threat to their afk-ness, thus they would no longer be AFK but active in system.

This could also have a positive effect on bringing mre fights, as well as bringing care bearing toons to a level of home defense rather than just "oh crap we have a cloaked red in system safe up and sit" for the rest of the day.


Great ideas.


Love it!
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2012-06-02 13:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Takara Mora
Dawn Flare wrote:
Bluebear8 wrote:
(Proposal) Cloaky reds in system, how to make life harder for them.

AFK CLOAKED SHIPS need a timer. When timer runs, they get kicked.
SImple as that.

Now, go complain your cloaky griefing ship should be able to sit shiva for 2+ hours not moving, and explain WHY?
If cloaky griefer wants to play, all he needs to do is find a target in a reasonable time and kill it. How hard is that?

OH, wai... cloaky griefer is afraid to die and hiding in a ship with no guns. Why support that?

CHEERS!

~BB


Or, you know, you can set traps?

We mine in peace with proper pvp support and cloakyfags in a system. Maybe you should come take some notes the next time I deploy my full mining support duders.



And all your defensive pvp support for your mining ops would do nothing to stop even a half-a**ed alpha strike from a few bored suicide gankers ... just saying ... (realizing you are really talking more about nullsec than hisec tho ofc).
Zer'Adul
Impetuous Industrialism
Manifesto.
#96 - 2012-06-02 23:40:07 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Raging YarrX wrote:
Remove local! Think about the server resources that could be saved.


No. Add to AFK tag to local or kick AFK players from game that could be save server resources.


No, that solves nothing. An AFK tag would just be removed with a simple little macro, and disconnecting people would **** boosters, scouts, miners, traders, freighter pilots and anyone involved in nullsec fights over royally for absolutely no reason.


Scouts is afk ? Or just the afk cloakers is AFK ?
Who dont do it anything until 30 minutes dont play. We know many players why want to remove local, because they are just horrible cloaking fags and want an iwin button. No way.



Talk to a wormhole guy about how long it takes them to scout out a hostile system.

And what about boosters, miners, traders, freighter pilots and anyone involved in nullsec fights? I see you picked up one one of the six example groups of people your change would affect, there are several others as well, and flat out ignored the rest.



I'll take that one. It takes me about 3 mins to get a full rundown on how many towers/ships are in a hostile WH without using probes. With a long range probe or two, it's less then 20 seconds usually.
Rastino
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#97 - 2012-06-04 07:39:00 UTC
This thread is going places.

I have an easy solution to deal with an AFK cloaker.... Move your ratting/mining to another system. If the AFK cloaker moves with you he is no longer AFKBlink

That was the pro-tip of the day, now stop whining and learn how to adapt to the game and other players in the game. Dont demand that CCP change the game because you are bad at EVE.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#98 - 2012-06-04 08:28:12 UTC
Takara Mora wrote:
Dawn Flare wrote:
Bluebear8 wrote:
(Proposal) Cloaky reds in system, how to make life harder for them.

AFK CLOAKED SHIPS need a timer. When timer runs, they get kicked.
SImple as that.

Now, go complain your cloaky griefing ship should be able to sit shiva for 2+ hours not moving, and explain WHY?
If cloaky griefer wants to play, all he needs to do is find a target in a reasonable time and kill it. How hard is that?

OH, wai... cloaky griefer is afraid to die and hiding in a ship with no guns. Why support that?

CHEERS!

~BB


Or, you know, you can set traps?

We mine in peace with proper pvp support and cloakyfags in a system. Maybe you should come take some notes the next time I deploy my full mining support duders.



And all your defensive pvp support for your mining ops would do nothing to stop even a half-a**ed alpha strike from a few bored suicide gankers ... just saying ... (realizing you are really talking more about nullsec than hisec tho ofc).

Well placed bubbles always make a mining op safer out in nullsec. Cool

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Arduemont
The State of War.
#99 - 2012-06-04 08:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Rastino wrote:

That was the pro-tip of the day.


This. ^^

If your not comfortable moving from the system they're in to another one to do your ratting, mining etc, then you really shouldn't be out of highsec.

To be honest, im not flatly against some kind of mothed of reducing the effect of afk cloakers in systems. I just think all the suggestions made so far are terrible. I also think most of you are crying over spilt milk, afk cloakies has always been a part of game-play for me. Never really done it myself, but I've always had to deal with them. I've layed traps for and killed three of them, and never been killed by one.

I've also carried on with life in system as usual most of the time, because we have standing fleets and lots of people active in system usually. (Admittedly, not where I am now).

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#100 - 2012-06-04 11:29:33 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Rastino wrote:

That was the pro-tip of the day.


This. ^^

If your not comfortable moving from the system they're in to another one to do your ratting, mining etc, then you really shouldn't be out of highsec.

To be honest, im not flatly against some kind of mothed of reducing the effect of afk cloakers in systems. I just think all the suggestions made so far are terrible. I also think most of you are crying over spilt milk, afk cloakies has always been a part of game-play for me. Never really done it myself, but I've always had to deal with them. I've layed traps for and killed three of them, and never been killed by one.

I've also carried on with life in system as usual most of the time, because we have standing fleets and lots of people active in system usually. (Admittedly, not where I am now).

Actually, the AFK tag isn't a bad idea, other than the fact that it is easily circumvented.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.