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(Proposal) Cloaky reds in system & Macro miners in Eve, how to make life harder for them.

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Equimanthorn
RONA Corporation
Blue Sun Interstellar Technologies
#101 - 2012-06-04 17:32:33 UTC
Xorv wrote:
No one wants your two cents.


Remove Local Chat!


THIS!!!!!
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2012-06-05 09:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: TravelBuoy
Equimanthorn wrote:
Xorv wrote:
No one wants your two cents.


Remove Local Chat!


THIS!!!!!


No Way!!! But AFK tag on local is fine.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#103 - 2012-06-05 11:30:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Afk tags wont fix anything, because alot of afk cloakies looking to kill people will sit in an anomaly waiting for someone stupid to turn up and then kill them. It will say they are afk but they can still see when you turn up. If your running an anomaly that a cloaky went afk in you will still get no warning before they attack you, because they wont be "not-afk" until they move the mouse to uncloak and attack you. Also you could just jam something in the keyboard and the afk tag wont show up.

Not only that but the AFK tag will cause problems. Suicide ganking in highsec will become easier, for example. "That freighter who is autopiloting is also afk, easy target" or "That Hulk pilot is afk, he'll never see us coming". If you want to support these kind of changes then go ahead, but you wont get my support. It also detracts from info-gathering and the normal tactics associated with PvP. If someone is looking for fights in null, sees a system with one person in space on the map, and jump into that system to see 12 people in local, they will wonder if they can pull off a kill without people turning up to support them. With an AFK tag they will instantly see the other 11 arn't going to come to the person in space's aid.

Also, it just doesn't make sence to have afk tags from a lore perspective. Gates control local chat, the information is given out by them. How exactly do you justify a gate knowing whether the pilot of a ship in local is paying attention? Answer is, you dont, because you can't.

Afk cloakies have never been a problem to me, because we have always had systems in place to deal with them. If you cant deal with them, then you shouldn't be where the AFK cloakies are. Also, I am getting fed up with people replying to my posts without reading what I have written or putting together sensible arguements. Please think before you hate, thank you.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2012-06-05 14:47:11 UTC
Hun Jakuza wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
If someone is worried about an AFK cloaker, they should move back to HS.

AFK cloakers cannot harm anyone. They cannot do anything except maybe fly in a direction really slowly.

If you are in a system and hiding from someone who may or may not be AFK, you are the only one responsible for your own cowardice.


Also, the OP mentions macros.
An AFK timer will have zero effect on macro bots. Bots can easily simulate realistic mouse and keystrokes. Otherwise they would be so easy to fins and ban.


Another cloaker expert alt with 1 kill and 18 losses.
Where you flying ? Let's check what will be happening when i go there with a cloaker alt. Checking you cowardice when you cant go to make isk.
Just when i was in Khanid low sec (three lvl4 agents was there). In the first day, the local was 38. I just got some kills and two weeks later the local decreased to 12.
Four weeks later the local decreased to 3. Most of time i was there in AFK. Sometimes i just dropped out some cheap scanner probes, but i didn't scan and mission runners docked up instantly. Probes in space :P
This is the real AFK terror. Enemy players dont know the status of AFK player, they dont know ambush when starting. Not all pilots playing in same time. Sometimes easy to catch one or two peoples there, who do a mistake. Sometimes they want to make a trap or something to kill cloakers, but against smart pilots who has intel or using a spies, that's useless thing and experienced AFK cloaked player uncatchable.
But the AFK terror is working, i used this tactic many times with successful. Everytime where i was in AFK cloak, activities on local drastically decreased after few days.
So, dont tell me, AFK cloakers does not have effect on active players.


THIS!!!
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2012-06-06 01:02:43 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Afk tags wont fix anything, because alot of afk cloakies looking to kill people will sit in an anomaly waiting for someone stupid to turn up and then kill them. It will say they are afk but they can still see when you turn up. If your running an anomaly that a cloaky went afk in you will still get no warning before they attack you, because they wont be "not-afk" until they move the mouse to uncloak and attack you. Also you could just jam something in the keyboard and the afk tag wont show up.

Not only that but the AFK tag will cause problems. Suicide ganking in highsec will become easier, for example. "That freighter who is autopiloting is also afk, easy target" or "That Hulk pilot is afk, he'll never see us coming". If you want to support these kind of changes then go ahead, but you wont get my support. It also detracts from info-gathering and the normal tactics associated with PvP. If someone is looking for fights in null, sees a system with one person in space on the map, and jump into that system to see 12 people in local, they will wonder if they can pull off a kill without people turning up to support them. With an AFK tag they will instantly see the other 11 arn't going to come to the person in space's aid.

Also, it just doesn't make sence to have afk tags from a lore perspective. Gates control local chat, the information is given out by them. How exactly do you justify a gate knowing whether the pilot of a ship in local is paying attention? Answer is, you dont, because you can't.

Afk cloakies have never been a problem to me, because we have always had systems in place to deal with them. If you cant deal with them, then you shouldn't be where the AFK cloakies are. Also, I am getting fed up with people replying to my posts without reading what I have written or putting together sensible arguements. Please think before you hate, thank you.



But wait, if you can't really tell whether the person is AFK or not ... how would it hurt the game again then? (I see conflicting statements above?) .... somehow you will KNOW whether or not the other 11 ppl are afk or not, but you won't be able to tell whether the guy you're attacking is really AFK or not? - which is it?
Rastino
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#106 - 2012-06-06 07:43:55 UTC
Takara Mora wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Afk tags wont fix anything, because alot of afk cloakies looking to kill people will sit in an anomaly waiting for someone stupid to turn up and then kill them. It will say they are afk but they can still see when you turn up. If your running an anomaly that a cloaky went afk in you will still get no warning before they attack you, because they wont be "not-afk" until they move the mouse to uncloak and attack you. Also you could just jam something in the keyboard and the afk tag wont show up.

Not only that but the AFK tag will cause problems. Suicide ganking in highsec will become easier, for example. "That freighter who is autopiloting is also afk, easy target" or "That Hulk pilot is afk, he'll never see us coming". If you want to support these kind of changes then go ahead, but you wont get my support. It also detracts from info-gathering and the normal tactics associated with PvP. If someone is looking for fights in null, sees a system with one person in space on the map, and jump into that system to see 12 people in local, they will wonder if they can pull off a kill without people turning up to support them. With an AFK tag they will instantly see the other 11 arn't going to come to the person in space's aid.

Also, it just doesn't make sence to have afk tags from a lore perspective. Gates control local chat, the information is given out by them. How exactly do you justify a gate knowing whether the pilot of a ship in local is paying attention? Answer is, you dont, because you can't.

Afk cloakies have never been a problem to me, because we have always had systems in place to deal with them. If you cant deal with them, then you shouldn't be where the AFK cloakies are. Also, I am getting fed up with people replying to my posts without reading what I have written or putting together sensible arguements. Please think before you hate, thank you.



But wait, if you can't really tell whether the person is AFK or not ... how would it hurt the game again then? (I see conflicting statements above?) .... somehow you will KNOW whether or not the other 11 ppl are afk or not, but you won't be able to tell whether the guy you're attacking is really AFK or not? - which is it?


You might want to change those sun glasses for a pair of reading glasses. Englisk is defenetly not my nativ toung but got the point in the first go.... now try again.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#107 - 2012-06-06 11:12:04 UTC
Lol, yea. Read it again. Haha.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#108 - 2012-06-06 11:45:33 UTC
Rastino wrote:
Takara Mora wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Afk tags wont fix anything, because alot of afk cloakies looking to kill people will sit in an anomaly waiting for someone stupid to turn up and then kill them. It will say they are afk but they can still see when you turn up. If your running an anomaly that a cloaky went afk in you will still get no warning before they attack you, because they wont be "not-afk" until they move the mouse to uncloak and attack you. Also you could just jam something in the keyboard and the afk tag wont show up.

Not only that but the AFK tag will cause problems. Suicide ganking in highsec will become easier, for example. "That freighter who is autopiloting is also afk, easy target" or "That Hulk pilot is afk, he'll never see us coming". If you want to support these kind of changes then go ahead, but you wont get my support. It also detracts from info-gathering and the normal tactics associated with PvP. If someone is looking for fights in null, sees a system with one person in space on the map, and jump into that system to see 12 people in local, they will wonder if they can pull off a kill without people turning up to support them. With an AFK tag they will instantly see the other 11 arn't going to come to the person in space's aid.

Also, it just doesn't make sence to have afk tags from a lore perspective. Gates control local chat, the information is given out by them. How exactly do you justify a gate knowing whether the pilot of a ship in local is paying attention? Answer is, you dont, because you can't.

Afk cloakies have never been a problem to me, because we have always had systems in place to deal with them. If you cant deal with them, then you shouldn't be where the AFK cloakies are. Also, I am getting fed up with people replying to my posts without reading what I have written or putting together sensible arguements. Please think before you hate, thank you.



But wait, if you can't really tell whether the person is AFK or not ... how would it hurt the game again then? (I see conflicting statements above?) .... somehow you will KNOW whether or not the other 11 ppl are afk or not, but you won't be able to tell whether the guy you're attacking is really AFK or not? - which is it?


You might want to change those sun glasses for a pair of reading glasses. Englisk is defenetly not my nativ toung but got the point in the first go.... now try again.

Again we are asking for a no risk situation, tho.

To be immune to risk is bad for the game.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Vivi Longheart
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2012-06-11 19:00:56 UTC
OK, but ... I don't think this is about risk. It is really just about the grief and the game mechanics where players are "supposed to be active" and not botting or causing things to happen while AFK.

You had an interesting idea to "tag" the guy in local as AFK, but "just a tag" would (as noted) surely be abused.

But, along the same idea, it occurs to me: We ALREADY have an In-Game FEATURE to report griefing in local if someone uses "inappropriate words or gestures" ... lol. Perhaps the same mechanic could be improved by adding a check box [ok, whatever... i'm not a programmer, but u get the idea here?] .. or some other reporting feature that could be initiated by a player who feels someone isn't at the keys for xxx minutes or hours ... which can in turn be followed up by some game admin whenever they are bored or between cups of coffee or something. After all, if the grief really goes on 24/7 ... it's not a labor intensive thing to identify and cause the reported griefer to "lose his connection" for violation of EULA to be at the keys when playing.

But, you'll say we cant do that! Oh, wai.. that might cause the griefer some grief! [Like the time I got banned briefly from posting in local because someone in the enemy fleet pushed that button and reported me for ... never mind....]

Just a thought, anyways... GRIEF for GRIEF, sounded good at first blush. So shoot at it.
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#110 - 2012-06-12 07:16:37 UTC
Just a question. The AFK tag is dangerous for any player ? No
The AFK tag changing the game mechanics ? No

Everyone knows why would be disturb the AFK tag some cloaky fags, who lying in this topic "I'm AFK at enemy systems and i cant kill anyone when i'm AFK", because they would be lost the chances to terrorizing active players in AFK.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#111 - 2012-06-12 08:21:47 UTC
Vivi Longheart wrote:
OK, but ... I don't think this is about risk. It is really just about the grief and the game mechanics where players are "supposed to be active" and not botting or causing things to happen while AFK.

You had an interesting idea to "tag" the guy in local as AFK, but "just a tag" would (as noted) surely be abused.

But, along the same idea, it occurs to me: We ALREADY have an In-Game FEATURE to report griefing in local if someone uses "inappropriate words or gestures" ... lol. Perhaps the same mechanic could be improved by adding a check box [ok, whatever... i'm not a programmer, but u get the idea here?] .. or some other reporting feature that could be initiated by a player who feels someone isn't at the keys for xxx minutes or hours ... which can in turn be followed up by some game admin whenever they are bored or between cups of coffee or something. After all, if the grief really goes on 24/7 ... it's not a labor intensive thing to identify and cause the reported griefer to "lose his connection" for violation of EULA to be at the keys when playing.

But, you'll say we cant do that! Oh, wai.. that might cause the griefer some grief! [Like the time I got banned briefly from posting in local because someone in the enemy fleet pushed that button and reported me for ... never mind....]

Just a thought, anyways... GRIEF for GRIEF, sounded good at first blush. So shoot at it.



*reports all 1500 people in Jita*

*several times*
Ta-Dam
#112 - 2012-06-12 12:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ta-Dam
TravelBuoy wrote:
Just a question. The AFK tag is dangerous for any player ? No
The AFK tag changing the game mechanics ? No

Everyone knows why would be disturb the AFK tag some cloaky fags, who lying in this topic "I'm AFK at enemy systems and i cant kill anyone when i'm AFK", because they would be lost the chances to terrorizing active players in AFK.


Agree.
It's true.
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2012-06-12 13:38:41 UTC
Ta-Dam wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:
Just a question. The AFK tag is dangerous for any player ? No
The AFK tag changing the game mechanics ? No

Everyone knows why would be disturb the AFK tag some cloaky fags, who lying in this topic "I'm AFK at enemy systems and i cant kill anyone when i'm AFK", because they would be lost the chances to terrorizing active players in AFK.


Agree.
It's true.


It's also stupid.
If you are afraid of cloakers, then get out of nullsec.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#114 - 2012-06-12 13:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
TravelBuoy wrote:
Just a question. The AFK tag is dangerous for any player ? No
The AFK tag changing the game mechanics ? No

Everyone knows why would be disturb the AFK tag some cloaky fags, who lying in this topic "I'm AFK at enemy systems and i cant kill anyone when i'm AFK", because they would be lost the chances to terrorizing active players in AFK.


I knew we weren't going to get along very well. Your doing it again. You can't just say "No!" to stuff and expect people to take you seriously. If you want people to take your opinion seriously you need a couter arguemnet, which I imagine you are too daft to think up.

Ta-Dam wrote:

Agree.
It's true.


Also, nice alt post. Again. You really do make it very obvious.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2012-06-12 15:13:28 UTC  |  Edited by: TravelBuoy
Kaelie Onren wrote:
Ta-Dam wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:
Just a question. The AFK tag is dangerous for any player ? No
The AFK tag changing the game mechanics ? No

Everyone knows why would be disturb the AFK tag some cloaky fags, who lying in this topic "I'm AFK at enemy systems and i cant kill anyone when i'm AFK", because they would be lost the chances to terrorizing active players in AFK.


Agree.
It's true.


It's also stupid.
If you are afraid of cloakers, then get out of nullsec.


If you are afraid from AFK tag, then get out of game.
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2012-06-12 15:19:25 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:
Just a question. The AFK tag is dangerous for any player ? No
The AFK tag changing the game mechanics ? No

Everyone knows why would be disturb the AFK tag some cloaky fags, who lying in this topic "I'm AFK at enemy systems and i cant kill anyone when i'm AFK", because they would be lost the chances to terrorizing active players in AFK.



This!!!
Vivi Longheart
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2012-06-12 18:45:17 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Vivi Longheart wrote:
OK, but ... I don't think this is about risk. It is really just about the grief and the game mechanics where players are "supposed to be active" and not botting or causing things to happen while AFK.

You had an interesting idea to "tag" the guy in local as AFK, but "just a tag" would (as noted) surely be abused.

But, along the same idea, it occurs to me: We ALREADY have an In-Game FEATURE to report griefing in local if someone uses "inappropriate words or gestures" ... lol. Perhaps the same mechanic could be improved by adding a check box [ok, whatever... i'm not a programmer, but u get the idea here?] .. or some other reporting feature that could be initiated by a player who feels someone isn't at the keys for xxx minutes or hours ... which can in turn be followed up by some game admin whenever they are bored or between cups of coffee or something. After all, if the grief really goes on 24/7 ... it's not a labor intensive thing to identify and cause the reported griefer to "lose his connection" for violation of EULA to be at the keys when playing.

But, you'll say we cant do that! Oh, wai.. that might cause the griefer some grief! [Like the time I got banned briefly from posting in local because someone in the enemy fleet pushed that button and reported me for ... never mind....]

Just a thought, anyways... GRIEF for GRIEF, sounded good at first blush. So shoot at it.



*reports all 1500 people in Jita*

*several times*



Silly rabbit. NOT a JITA issue.

This mechanic issue and my suggestion for a solution using the Reporting Button only apply in Null Sec and Low Sec, as your war decs in Empire already have time limits. As the new players already noted above, an AFK enemy or neutral player in Empire doesn't cause the same type of grief, does not require the same type of respect/response.

Fear is not the issue. Players have to respect the game mechanics, which includes the off chance the AFK dude walks by his computer or gets active when the locals are trying to do their thing without proper "respect" to the NEUT IN SYSTEM. BOOM!

So, don't be afraid.
Be insured. Be griefed.
Just make the game more enjoyable, and give the majority some counters to shake this up?
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-06-13 10:39:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaelie Onren
I assume you just mean nullsec as I imagine your gripe is with hotdrops. Because if your issue is just you can't be bothers to defend yourself or press dscan every minute then you shouldn't be mining anywhere out of highsec.

So are you seriously advocating that GMs start investigating if a alleged afk cloaker is really online with eyes on screen or not? GMs don't have too much to do anyway so yeah sure let's put one more impossible and meaningless task for them to attend to.

Besides are you seriously advocating that GMs enforce that people press a button to prove they are alive?
I'm a cloaky. I should be the one who has to do nothing and just sit and watch and collect intel. That is the whole point of cloakys. I don't make money from collecting intel. So that's why I don't need to be pushing buttons like you are, mining away and making cash. If you fear a hotdrop you need to have spies of your own in systems jump distance away from your location. I assume you have no issue with cloakers if they had no ability to hotdrop right? If so then you have to get over the fact that you need to actively defend against hotdrops in null. That's life in null. That's why you get the big bucks. Sorry if you can't safely mine like you can in highsec. That's life.
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2012-06-13 13:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ribikoka
Kaelie Onren wrote:
I assume you just mean nullsec as I imagine your gripe is with hotdrops. Because if your issue is just you can't be bothers to defend yourself or press dscan every minute then you shouldn't be mining anywhere out of highsec.

So are you seriously advocating that GMs start investigating if a alleged afk cloaker is really online with eyes on screen or not? GMs don't have too much to do anyway so yeah sure let's put one more impossible and meaningless task for them to attend to.

Besides are you seriously advocating that GMs enforce that people press a button to prove they are alive?
I'm a cloaky. I should be the one who has to do nothing and just sit and watch and collect intel. That is the whole point of cloakys. I don't make money from collecting intel. So that's why I don't need to be pushing buttons like you are, mining away and making cash. If you fear a hotdrop you need to have spies of your own in systems jump distance away from your location. I assume you have no issue with cloakers if they had no ability to hotdrop right? If so then you have to get over the fact that you need to actively defend against hotdrops in null. That's life in null. That's why you get the big bucks. Sorry if you can't safely mine like you can in highsec. That's life.



You cant get intel if you get AFK tag when "you just sit and collect intel" ?
You just raving here.


The true it is, what she wrote earlier.

"Just a question. The AFK tag is dangerous for any player ? No
The AFK tag changing the game mechanics ? No
Everyone knows why would be disturb the AFK tag some cloaky fags, who lying in this topic "I'm AFK at enemy systems and i cant kill anyone when i'm AFK", because they would be lost the chances to terrorizing active players in AFK."

If you collect intel and use dir scanner, you using scanner button, you wont get AFK tag.
If you moving to hotdrop position, you wont get AFK tag,
You just get AFK tag when you dont move at least 30 minutes.

But you can collect and share information from visual contact with AFK tag too, that is dont disturb you.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#120 - 2012-06-13 14:36:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
I would like to point out that none of you advocating this AFK tag have addressed any of the potential problems I have highlighted.

Also, Ribikoka you missed the point of Kaelie Onren's post entirely. They weren't even talking about the AFK tag. Why would they? No one has put forward any good argument for how it could be used yet. So what you did, was quote someone not talking about what your advocating (even though there is a post only a few above that rips the AFK tag idea to pieces, which you happen to be ignoring), and then say how that's not a reason to stop what your advocating. Your right its not, because it wasn't meant to be. There are far more obvious and glaring problems with the idea of an AFK tag that you happen to be actively ignoring.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf