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(Proposal) Cloaky reds in system & Macro miners in Eve, how to make life harder for them.

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Bluebear8
Divine Power Industries
Brothers of Tangra
#61 - 2012-05-19 18:43:09 UTC
(Proposal) Cloaky reds in system, how to make life harder for them.

AFK CLOAKED SHIPS need a timer. When timer runs, they get kicked.
SImple as that.

Now, go complain your cloaky griefing ship should be able to sit shiva for 2+ hours not moving, and explain WHY?
If cloaky griefer wants to play, all he needs to do is find a target in a reasonable time and kill it. How hard is that?

OH, wai... cloaky griefer is afraid to die and hiding in a ship with no guns. Why support that?

CHEERS!

~BB

Dawn Flare
Cutthroat Industries
Viral Society
#62 - 2012-05-19 18:49:20 UTC
Bluebear8 wrote:
(Proposal) Cloaky reds in system, how to make life harder for them.

AFK CLOAKED SHIPS need a timer. When timer runs, they get kicked.
SImple as that.

Now, go complain your cloaky griefing ship should be able to sit shiva for 2+ hours not moving, and explain WHY?
If cloaky griefer wants to play, all he needs to do is find a target in a reasonable time and kill it. How hard is that?

OH, wai... cloaky griefer is afraid to die and hiding in a ship with no guns. Why support that?

CHEERS!

~BB


Or, you know, you can set traps?

We mine in peace with proper pvp support and cloakyfags in a system. Maybe you should come take some notes the next time I deploy my full mining support duders.
Bluebear8
Divine Power Industries
Brothers of Tangra
#63 - 2012-05-19 19:05:28 UTC
As a total noob, I had no idea you can locate an AFK Cloaked ship. [I have only been playing for 4-5 years, you know.]

Oh, maybe you think the PvP guys should run fleets in system with your ratters and miners to support PvE. Great idea!?!
But, why pay for SOV if you can't control your own space against this AFK cloaked grief without calling on a bunch of your friends to come sit SHiva with you and boring a lot of players to search for or protect against griefers?

Anyways, thanks to CSM for finally acknowledging and briefly talking about this today for the very first time at today's town meeting on Eve-Radio!

Cloaky grieft has been a topic of concern among the player base for many, many years. I wa\s interested also to hear most of the CSM representatives appear to be satisfied with CCP's explanation that the simple solution i mentioned above is "too hard" to implement.

CHEERS!
Dawn Flare
Cutthroat Industries
Viral Society
#64 - 2012-05-19 19:22:58 UTC
*sigh*

I'll explain this for you, since I would hate for a fellow member of my alliance to fail as badly as you are showing.

You set traps, you create situations to pull him in to attack, yes, you even get your pvp bros or alt to sit in the belt with you in a cloaky recon waiting for them to attack.

If all this fails, you just find out where his corp/alliance does their carebearing and return the favor by shutting down their systems.

Its not like FA has not dealt with this before, and its not like we won't deal with it again. Don't whine on the forums, just deal with it. Cloaky AFK can't hurt you, and when they come back from AFK, they can only find your miners with probes which you can see coming before they can get a lock and warp(you are riding dscan, right?)

If you need help dealing with this, go to the alliance forums and ask someone for help. Just stop shiptoasting about it in public.
Bluebear8
Divine Power Industries
Brothers of Tangra
#65 - 2012-05-19 20:00:42 UTC
Dawn, you are making this sound like this game mechanic thing is an alliance issue. It's not. We joined FA for the PvP, and we are having a LOT of fun fighting.

I used this account for a lot of industry in my first few years, and I'm very much aware of this AFK Cloaky Griefer issue from those past experiences. I'm not doing PvE in EvE for a few months, because I am actually favoring a couple of facebook games for PvE (more fun).

EvE still kicks ass with PvP, but not so much for PvE due to issues like this one.

Anyways, this is a game mechanics issue, not an alliance issue at all.
Dawn Flare
Cutthroat Industries
Viral Society
#66 - 2012-05-19 20:07:47 UTC
Bluebear8 wrote:
Anyways, this is a game mechanics issue, not an alliance issue at all.

Its NOT an issue, tho. They can't affect you(beyond making you switch systems) unless you LET them do so.

Work with your mates if they are in your way, do some intel work, and DEAL with it. We get those guys often enough that their contracts to grief us usually don't get renewed, and the few times the have been good enough to actually become a real problem, we took the fight to them.
Caruleum Ursa
Orion Ore International
#67 - 2012-05-19 21:10:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Caruleum Ursa
Well said, Bluebear8 !

Dawn is an effing TROLL, and probably never wore her industrial diapers.

Probably someone took a shortcut when coding the cloak module, and now we're paying the price! Smooth move, ex lax.
Dawn Flare
Cutthroat Industries
Viral Society
#68 - 2012-05-19 21:17:59 UTC
Caruleum Ursa wrote:
Well said, Bluebear8 !

Dawn is an effing TROLL, and probably never wore her industrial diapers.

Probably someone took a shortcut when coding the cloak module, and now we're paying the price! Smooth move, ex lax.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Dawn_Flare

Do your homework, this is a dedicated indy toon.

Cloaks are NOT something that should shut you down if you have even half a brain. Grow a pair and learn how to handle psyops.
Joshvader star
Infinite Improbable Industry Inc
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2012-05-19 21:32:00 UTC
Dawn Flare wrote:
Caruleum Ursa wrote:
Well said, Bluebear8 !

Dawn is an effing TROLL, and probably never wore her industrial diapers.

Probably someone took a shortcut when coding the cloak module, and now we're paying the price! Smooth move, ex lax.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Dawn_Flare

Do your homework, this is a dedicated indy toon.

Cloaks are NOT something that should shut you down if you have even half a brain. Grow a pair and learn how to handle psyops.


While I agree with your post, that cloakies should not shut an industria op down. The truth is they do. That is why cloakies do what they do. Its a game play tactic of finding an alliances industrial systems and placing a cloaky in it to disrupt the industrial players. You can't argue that point.

Keep in mind the indi ops we are refering to, are not the full 20 man fleets with pvp cover. Its the smaller miners taking advantage of some down time between fleet opps.

But that's just me.
Dawn Flare
Cutthroat Industries
Viral Society
#70 - 2012-05-19 21:36:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dawn Flare
Joshvader star wrote:
Dawn Flare wrote:
Caruleum Ursa wrote:
Well said, Bluebear8 !

Dawn is an effing TROLL, and probably never wore her industrial diapers.

Probably someone took a shortcut when coding the cloak module, and now we're paying the price! Smooth move, ex lax.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Dawn_Flare

Do your homework, this is a dedicated indy toon.

Cloaks are NOT something that should shut you down if you have even half a brain. Grow a pair and learn how to handle psyops.


While I agree with your post, that cloakies should not shut an industria op down. The truth is they do. That is why cloakies do what they do. Its a game play tactic of finding an alliances industrial systems and placing a cloaky in it to disrupt the industrial players. You can't argue that point.

Keep in mind the indi ops we are refering to, are not the full 20 man fleets with pvp cover. Its the smaller miners taking advantage of some down time between fleet opps.

But that's just me.

They do, in fact, shut down small, unprepared ops.

But only if the miners in question let their fear overwhelm their common sense.

My corp maintains unlisted belt bookmarks across several good mining system in out of the way corners of our space, just so that those very small 2-3 man ops have options if the pvpers can't/won't help for whatever reason. Its a PVPers job to maintain those(pvpers tend to have better probing skills).

You have to be organized, and support each other. Letting a cloaky shut you down is YOUR failure tho, not a failure of the mechanic.

Edit: Oh, and I maintain my pvp main in fairly close proximity to said miners so I can rapid response to help them in a pinch, with carrier hotdrops or recon cruiser support(usually the latter, carrier hotdrops are pretty much suicide) so I have a fair grasp of BOTH sides of the coin.
Caruleum Ursa
Orion Ore International
#71 - 2012-05-19 21:58:41 UTC
My apologies, Dawn. I thought all FA was PvPers. Had no idea you were the indy toon.

[ I didn't look at your history because I didn't think ANY indy player would like cloaky AFK griefers.]


Sorry, for the industrial diaper comment. Maybe you are wearing them, after all. Big smile <-- another troll detected.


I still agree with Bluebear that AFK cloakers are not good for the game. Maybe you are having fun setting traps if it's the first few times you've done traps. You might just discover it is impossible to catch a truly AFK dude, tho. I kinda doubt you'll enjoy doing that for very long if the cloaker is truly AFK.

That's why they call it a griefer, I think. He's not looking for a fun fight, or an easy gank, he's just looking to give some grief while he's off AFK watching the Cartoon Channel. Or, waiting to drop a cyno to invite his friends to the party on the 3rd day of being AFK in system if some PvE activity picks back up.


Best way to get some action for CCP to fix this issue is to find out where the CSM dudes are working their industrial accounts, and go park an AFK cloaky ship in system with their ratter/miner/trader hauler account. 24/7? Truly! Lol
If it's not a bug, it's a FEATURE.

Dawn Flare
Cutthroat Industries
Viral Society
#72 - 2012-05-19 22:12:49 UTC
Caruleum Ursa wrote:
My apologies, Dawn. I thought all FA was PvPers. Had no idea you were the indy toon.

[ I didn't look at your history because I didn't think ANY indy player would like cloaky AFK griefers.]

Sorry, for the industrial diaper comment. Maybe you are wearing them, after all. Big smile <-- another troll detected.

FA is a PVP alliance, but alot of us have indy alts. Dawn happens to be my indy alt, who is posting while my main is sadly forum banned(Yeah, I totally fess up to being a troll, but I have found the best troll is the truth)

Quote:

I still agree with Bluebear that AFK cloakers are not good for the game. Maybe you are having fun setting traps if it's the first few times you've done traps. You might just discover it is impossible to catch a truly AFK dude, tho. I kinda doubt you'll enjoy doing that for very long if the cloaker is truly AFK.

That's why they call it a griefer, I think. He's not looking for a fun fight, or an easy gank, he's just looking to give some grief while he's off AFK watching the Cartoon Channel. Or, waiting to drop a cyno to invite his friends to the party on the 3rd day of being AFK in system if some PvE activity picks back up.


Best way to get some action for CCP to fix this issue is to find out where the CSM dudes are working their industrial accounts, and go park an AFK cloaky ship in system with their ratter/miner/trader hauler account. 24/7? Truly! Lol
If it's not a bug, it's a FEATURE.

Considering EVE was originally designed by a couple dudes pissed they were not allowed to grief in other MMOs, I am inclined to think most griefing tactics are a feature. The game has moved past that, and some actions are actually bannable as griefing, but not many(only confirmed one I have found is bumping a freighter for hours, preventing its warp, just for the lulz) but in the end, assume any grief potential is supposed to be there, and is accepted by CCP.

I don't LIKE cloakyfags, but I accept their right to do their thing, and see it as a legit tactic in a war against other large entities where you need to impair their ability to make isk.

The other thing about nerfing them is the fact that doing so is a direct buff to bots, since a standard tactic to deal with them is to cloak in their botting system for a week or 2, til the bot whitelists you(meaning they will do their thing and ignore you being in system) while allows you to kill them with impunity.

All in all, they should stay, even if it causes me a little inconvenience.
Caruleum Ursa
Orion Ore International
#73 - 2012-05-19 22:54:37 UTC
[quote=Dawn Flare]

I don't LIKE cloakyfags,




OKAY, but next time say it like you really MEAN IT. Sad
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-05-20 01:49:23 UTC
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Hehron wrote:
I can't understand why CCP has not done this for a long time ago. Like any other MMO game ( or some ) to make it much
harder to be a Macro miner.

How to do?

Simply let the game disconnect after 30 mins or so, when the mouse or keyboard haven't been used !

Kill some of the illegal ISK flow and it would also kill the so simpel AFK cloaky reds in a system. Never saw the AFK reds
as very diffucult, frankly it's pretty gay. It's got nothing to do with with how good you fly, everyone can put an alt in a system
and leave game.

Just my two cents


Hehron



The CCP changed this rules in 2005. Was disconnected those pilots which didn't use his mouse or keyboard within 30 minutes.
But the macroboters and afk cloakers always crying for CCP like a bunch of pu..., this is why they changed this nice function.
I guess, if someone not playing dont waste the server resources from others, who play the game.
+1


If the cloaker is afk, why are you afraid of him? Most people continue doing whatever it is you do in 0.0 all day without letting an AFK cloaker ruin it for them.

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Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#75 - 2012-05-20 11:13:49 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Hehron wrote:
I can't understand why CCP has not done this for a long time ago. Like any other MMO game ( or some ) to make it much
harder to be a Macro miner.

How to do?

Simply let the game disconnect after 30 mins or so, when the mouse or keyboard haven't been used !

Kill some of the illegal ISK flow and it would also kill the so simpel AFK cloaky reds in a system. Never saw the AFK reds
as very diffucult, frankly it's pretty gay. It's got nothing to do with with how good you fly, everyone can put an alt in a system
and leave game.

Just my two cents


Hehron



The CCP changed this rules in 2005. Was disconnected those pilots which didn't use his mouse or keyboard within 30 minutes.
But the macroboters and afk cloakers always crying for CCP like a bunch of pu..., this is why they changed this nice function.
I guess, if someone not playing dont waste the server resources from others, who play the game.
+1


If the cloaker is afk, why are you afraid of him? Most people continue doing whatever it is you do in 0.0 all day without letting an AFK cloaker ruin it for them.


Man u r realy an idiot. Do you understand what is mean, cloakers terrorizing players, who dont know the cloaker ship is AFK or not ?
This is why crying the cloaker faqs, if someone open a topic from AFK tag or cap useage cloak modules.
If you dont play go and log off, and dont disturb those players who want to play.
Stigman Zuwadza
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-05-20 17:39:08 UTC
I support cloaking for long durations as a tactic of disrupting gameplay.

However, to me it would seem that true AFK cloaking is in effect unattended gameplay as there is intent with the action of AFK cloaking and unattended gameplay breaks some rules I hope.

So with that viewpoint in mind maybe we can agree that cloaking under some circumstances is being abused, and if we can agree on this then we can agree that something needs to be done about it. First we need a problem and maybe that problem can be unattended gameplay.

A solution can only follow once we agree on a problem!

Fly safe. o7

It's broken and it's been broken for a long time and it'll be broken for some time to come.

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#77 - 2012-05-20 17:59:45 UTC
If someone is worried about an AFK cloaker, they should move back to HS.

AFK cloakers cannot harm anyone. They cannot do anything except maybe fly in a direction really slowly.

If you are in a system and hiding from someone who may or may not be AFK, you are the only one responsible for your own cowardice.


Also, the OP mentions macros.
An AFK timer will have zero effect on macro bots. Bots can easily simulate realistic mouse and keystrokes. Otherwise they would be so easy to fins and ban.
Hun Jakuza
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-05-20 20:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Hun Jakuza
Corina Jarr wrote:
If someone is worried about an AFK cloaker, they should move back to HS.

AFK cloakers cannot harm anyone. They cannot do anything except maybe fly in a direction really slowly.

If you are in a system and hiding from someone who may or may not be AFK, you are the only one responsible for your own cowardice.


Also, the OP mentions macros.
An AFK timer will have zero effect on macro bots. Bots can easily simulate realistic mouse and keystrokes. Otherwise they would be so easy to fins and ban.


Another cloaker expert alt with 1 kill and 18 losses.
Where you flying ? Let's check what will be happening when i go there with a cloaker alt. Checking you cowardice when you cant go to make isk.
Just when i was in Khanid low sec (three lvl4 agents was there). In the first day, the local was 38. I just got some kills and two weeks later the local decreased to 12.
Four weeks later the local decreased to 3. Most of time i was there in AFK. Sometimes i just dropped out some cheap scanner probes, but i didn't scan and mission runners docked up instantly. Probes in space :P
This is the real AFK terror. Enemy players dont know the status of AFK player, they dont know ambush when starting. Not all pilots playing in same time. Sometimes easy to catch one or two peoples there, who do a mistake. Sometimes they want to make a trap or something to kill cloakers, but against smart pilots who has intel or using a spies, that's useless thing and experienced AFK cloaked player uncatchable.
But the AFK terror is working, i used this tactic many times with successful. Everytime where i was in AFK cloak, activities on local drastically decreased after few days.
So, dont tell me, AFK cloakers does not have effect on active players.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#79 - 2012-05-20 22:03:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
Hun Jakuza wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
If someone is worried about an AFK cloaker, they should move back to HS.

AFK cloakers cannot harm anyone. They cannot do anything except maybe fly in a direction really slowly.

If you are in a system and hiding from someone who may or may not be AFK, you are the only one responsible for your own cowardice.


Also, the OP mentions macros.
An AFK timer will have zero effect on macro bots. Bots can easily simulate realistic mouse and keystrokes. Otherwise they would be so easy to fins and ban.


Another cloaker expert alt with 1 kill and 18 losses.
Where you flying ? Let's check what will be happening when i go there with a cloaker alt. Checking you cowardice when you cant go to make isk.
Just when i was in Khanid low sec (three lvl4 agents was there). In the first day, the local was 38. I just got some kills and two weeks later the local decreased to 12.
Four weeks later the local decreased to 3. Most of time i was there in AFK. Sometimes i just dropped out some cheap scanner probes, but i didn't scan and mission runners docked up instantly. Probes in space :P
This is the real AFK terror. Enemy players dont know the status of AFK player, they dont know ambush when starting. Not all pilots playing in same time. Sometimes easy to catch one or two peoples there, who do a mistake. Sometimes they want to make a trap or something to kill cloakers, but against smart pilots who has intel or using a spies, that's useless thing and experienced AFK cloaked player uncatchable.
But the AFK terror is working, i used this tactic many times with successful. Everytime where i was in AFK cloak, activities on local drastically decreased after few days.
So, dont tell me, AFK cloakers does not have effect on active players.

Was in J132 most last month (April). You could come visit. I don't care if you come and cloak in "my" system.
Of course... I wouldn't know you were there, nor would I care.

I also spend some time in low sec, usually in Domain since my home hangers are there. Though most of my time recently is in Amarr, listening to local and sometimes seeing if anyone will shoot at me when I loot their wreck. Been busy with school so haven't had the time to go raid WHs.

And the only kill I have is a corpie. I can't remember why though... but anyway, I don't kill people much. However, I also don't hide like a child from someone who may or may not be at the computer, or even at their house. I just don't fly what I can't afford/am not willing to lose.

Oh and this is my main, though not my first character. Didn't like the others...
Stigman Zuwadza
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-05-20 23:56:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Stigman Zuwadza
With all the chitchat surrounding this subject I decided to peruse old posts about the subject, the main reason being to see if CCP had ever communicated their stance on this subject. This is what I found:

CSM December Summit – Meeting Minutes Are Out - links to a Devblog.

PDF document (containing the minutes of the meeting) linked in the Devblog.

I draw your attention to the 'Game balance' section (page 22) where it says:

Quote:
Cloak Hunters: CCP brought up the possibility of a future cloak-hunting ship or mechanic as a hypothetical; this was described as ‘more like finding a submarine than pulling a blanket off’ a cloaked ship. The CSM was cautiously positive about the idea of a cloak-hunting vessel of some kind.


So it would appear that CCP are open to a counter of some sort to cloaked ships. As the previous CSM were not against the idea, I hope the current CSM panel can maintain some continuity in relation to this topic.

Hopefully this can lead to a more definitive answer to this whole cloaky business and ultimately a much clearer idea as to what CCP's stance is.

Have a good one. o7

It's broken and it's been broken for a long time and it'll be broken for some time to come.