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Incursion changes

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xVx dreadnaught
modro
Northern Coalition.
#221 - 2012-05-08 09:53:00 UTC
Herr Ronin wrote:


Well considering ISN use's 1 Pith C Type Inv for Vanguards, If we do assaults, Just add a LSE, But are we know getting war threats in this thread now?

QQ


Not a Threat... someone actually hired mercs against us. when contacted they told us "I pissed someone off" But it's ok, the mercs have about 13 current war decs, our only casualty so far was one of our guys got drunk and decided to attack them... Firing on a stargate instead and getting Concordukkoned
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2012-05-08 09:58:45 UTC
xVx dreadnaught wrote:
Herr Ronin wrote:


Well considering ISN use's 1 Pith C Type Inv for Vanguards, If we do assaults, Just add a LSE, But are we know getting war threats in this thread now?

QQ


Not a Threat... someone actually hired mercs against us. when contacted they told us "I pissed someone off" But it's ok, the mercs have about 13 current war decs, our only casualty so far was one of our guys got drunk and decided to attack them... Firing on a stargate instead and getting Concordukkoned



Haha, Classic!

Dude the amount of people who are mad at Incursion FC's is hilarious, I mean check our threads for this, ISN Spy guy, He is just comical, What did your guy lose when he shot the gate, Only a BC i hope.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#223 - 2012-05-08 10:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
xVx dreadnaught wrote:
Oh dude I have... I lost a full HG slave clone with all 6% implants. Also a paladin, a legion and 2 Bhaalgorns.

All bought and paid for with Incursions

And yet I do not see any of those losses on your kill board. Perhaps you would like to screen cap them? I find it especially odd your HG slave clone does not show up, given that you are API verified, or have Sansha begun podding pilots now?

xVx dreadnaught wrote:
Which is a lot, but then think about the Cartel in null sec, that have dictated to everyone how much they will sell their Moon harvest materials... or "We'll take your moon from you" I'm sorry but Cartels fixing the Tech moon prices I think is a much more abusive form of market manipulation than someone joining incursions.

Incursions aren't a form of market manipulation, and the very fact that you think market manipulation is an issue shows you may have misunderstood the concept of a sand box style MMO.

Tech moons are an issue because they funnel money to the leaders of alliances rather than the members, and are controlled too easily by a small force with easy power projection. But that is a separate issue and not exactly relevant. What is relevant is that tech moons are fought over, they result in a large number of ship losses and they force people to genuinely band together to control them.

That said, tech moons aren't perfect and it does look like they are on their way out. But, as I said, they're not exactly related.

xVx dreadnaught wrote:
Also I was waiting for someone to make a 99% vs 1% argument here... and oh my god the Incursion community is not the 1% The difference being is that "1%" is more of an exclusive thing. Like the trillions in isk that Null sec alliances bring in from Moon products and DED plex's... To which no one other than a select few may participate in without feeling the Wrath of the 1%

I run a 5 man corporation consisting of me and my alts, yet I run DED complexes regularly. Go figure.

xVx dreadnaught wrote:
The Incursion communities are in the most part open and public and free for anyone to participate in. We have 2 main channels, one for Shield and another for Armor This is only for tanking preferences because it made sense to have the 2 channels to operate independently and even competing against each other for the rights and glory of the mom kills. I see, if anything Incursion runners are the middle class of eve, able to fund their PVP habits and invest in BPO's and other production ventures with the isk earned in incursions. But they are a far cry from those elite leaders of Alliances of null sec in New Eden.

There are certain other games that segregate gameplay into PvE raids and PvP content, where the PvE content is a grind used to fund PvP gear: they are called themepark MMOs. They rise and fall all the time, usually due to the issues I've been talking about (market saturation, lack of player-driven content, mudflation, hyper-inflation etc.)

xVx dreadnaught wrote:
But isn't Hulkageddon a wonderful thing... This drive to use T1 ships to suicide gank a bunch of expensive mining ships. I thought it very interesting that Covetors and Retrievers were removed from the list of ships rewarded for it. Then I realised that not much Technetium is used to produce these. And that the Goons fund Hulkageddon now because for every Hulk destroyed they sell more Technetium and profit even better. The thing is, once a Hulk is bought how often does it need re-bought? It isn't not unless you have a drive every year to remove as many from hi-sec as you can. So that all those hulks dying need replaced. Filling the Null-sec pockets even more... This is a perfect example of the 1% (moon owners in null sec) literally taking money from the 99% (hi-sec miners)

Wow that is a lot of tinfoil. But let's just say you're correct: so what?

Some hulk pilots refuse to leave high sec, and refuse to pay attention to the game whilst playing. They saturate the market with cheap minerals, making life even less profitable for the genuine new players who actually belong in high sec. So the goons organise a periodic player driven event to manipulate market prices and generally have a bit of fun, how is this bad?

And more importantly, how does it have anything to do with incursion farming?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#224 - 2012-05-08 10:27:03 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Andochas wrote:
Back on #148,

Here's a great blog post by Tippia on the ISK generated by Incursions http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose



This rant does not even touch that worm hole blue loot IS GREATER THEN INCURSION LOOT WAS AS AN ISK INJECTOR
and skirts the real culpable causes of inflation. If the real ISK hoses have to be capped instead of killing whole communities of people working together WH's & bounties should have seen the 10% nerf before Incursions did

Hell even CCP Sound wave has mentioned more then once Incursion ISK well:
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#225 - 2012-05-08 10:39:24 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:


I run a 5 man corporation consisting of me and my alts, yet I run DED complexes regularly. Go figure.

[?


No wonder you are so BUTTHURT about incursions. As a solo hermit you've lost out in the MMO communities
and when CCP started rewarding non hermit Incursions runners because they work together you & your 5 alts dual to hex boxing lost ground economically. So people working together & whom don't live under a rock shouldn't make as much ISK as you do even though add to the sandbox unlike your solitary ways. This explains many of your posts TBH
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Dinger
Task Force Delta-14
#226 - 2012-05-08 10:44:52 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
having to face the logistical challenges of getting loot into/out of wormholes/null sec is trivial in comparison.


Actually it is.

Due to the spawning mechanics which encourage farming and therefore lead to low turnover of incurions the fulltime incursion runners don't get the option of cherry picking those close to themselves, if that's their thing they have to follow from one incursion to the next moving their entire incursion dedicated assets every single time.

Wormholers get to pick and choose when they do their loot/supply runs, normally when their highsec exit pops up near to a market hub, at that point it's mearly a case of scouting to make sure the hole isn't bubbled/camped and jumping the few jumps between the hole and the market and back again.

Nullseccers have it even easier in that they have a permenant shortcut thanks to jump drives/bridges, if they actually had to organise moving their loot/moongoo from null to empire via convoys of non-jump capable ships that would be more than balanced, however we all know that it simply gets lobbed into a carrier/mom/JF for near risk free rapid transport, even the backup option of standard freighters using static/titan jump bridges is trivial given the values that can be moved at such little risk.

Take one example which I'm quite familiar with, from Z-M5A1 in Period Basis to Jita is 63 jumps conventionally (28null, 12low 23high including 2 in an island) In a 5/4/4 jump freighter from Z-M to Pakkonen is 7 jumps, plus another 4 to get to Jita, a total of 11 jumps, the return trip can be done with the same 7 jumps directly from the Jita 4-4 undock, nothing trivial about that at all.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#227 - 2012-05-08 10:52:27 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
No wonder you are so BUTTHURT about incursions. As a solo hermit you've lost out in the MMO communities
and when CCP started rewarding non hermit Incursions runners because they work together you & your 5 alts dual to hex boxing lost ground economically.

A) Hex is six. And I don't "hex box", usually the maximum number of clients I run at a time is three.

B) I don't PvE for ISK. I do it for fun. I long ago went past the point where I don't really need any more ISK.

C) I'm running solo at the moment because I dropped from my main alliance due to work and a new gf meaning I'm not online as much, previously I helped build a 350 man low sec alliance and I had just rejoined the same group to rebuild in Syndicate. They're up to 200 and something members again now and doing pretty well, and I'll join them again when I've got more time to spend in game (read: when I screw up and get fired/dumped).

DarthNefarius wrote:
So people working together & whom don't live under a rock shouldn't make as much ISK as you do even though add to the sandbox unlike your solitary ways. This explains many of your posts TBH

My solitary ways do add to the sandbox, hell the two T3s I run wormholes in cost more than most incursion fleets. And I regularly add to the sandbox by going out of my way to pester, harass and otherwise screw with other players and the market.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#228 - 2012-05-08 10:54:57 UTC
Dinger wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
having to face the logistical challenges of getting loot into/out of wormholes/null sec is trivial in comparison.
Actually it is.

Due to the spawning mechanics which encourage farming and therefore lead to low turnover of incurions the fulltime incursion runners don't get the option of cherry picking those close to themselves, if that's their thing they have to follow from one incursion to the next moving their entire incursion dedicated assets every single time.

I've been a full time incursion runner, please do not try and pretend moving a couple of ships a few jumps to another part of Amarr is a big deal.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Ana'Gia
Pink Bunny Club
#229 - 2012-05-08 11:08:09 UTC
Vanguards:
VG Payout is fine. I ran a pure Legion fleet a couple of days ago and we were doing (NCOs) in 7 mins, NMC in 9 mins.
The problem is really the OTA Wall. So my sugestion is that you move Hacking Tower abit closer so that a Logi or Cruiser with an Afterburner can go for it and hack it.
Dont touch the Mara if people fit 3-4 tracking Comps instead of an Afterburner they are just dump.
Assaults:
- NCNs really take too long, perhaps removing a pocket wil fix it

Overall payout is too low because its really a pain the arse to form a fleet and keep that fleet going.

HQs:
Havnt dont alot, because alot of pilots(armor) have dissapeared in Incursions.
Structure shooting for 10 mins(tztztztztztz) i feel like being in 0.0

Incursion bar:
Really nice that you changed the bar from a Downtime to Downtime bar to a Incursion start Incursion End bar.

Overall: That Incursion Iteration was abit hard.
Xemnus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#230 - 2012-05-08 12:42:50 UTC
Would be nice to allow Command Ships in NCN Cruiser Pocket since Battlecruisers can go there now.
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#231 - 2012-05-08 12:49:15 UTC
xVx dreadnaught wrote:

Have you logi'd incursions? Have you ran anything above VG's? Or are you just one of the many people that are commenting on something you know almost nothing about?

P.S. Note to the smart ass that hired a merc corp... I have other characters I can run incursions on... Don't think that a war dec will stop me.


I only fly logistics, sir, easiest ships to fly in incursion tbh.

my FC is ladytomahawk or something, cant really remember
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#232 - 2012-05-08 13:01:26 UTC
Apolyon I wrote:
xVx dreadnaught wrote:

Have you logi'd incursions? Have you ran anything above VG's? Or are you just one of the many people that are commenting on something you know almost nothing about?

P.S. Note to the smart ass that hired a merc corp... I have other characters I can run incursions on... Don't think that a war dec will stop me.


I only fly logistics, sir, easiest ships to fly in incursion tbh.

my FC is ladytomahawk or something, cant really remember


Your FC is well, He flys a CNR, Enough said really.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#233 - 2012-05-08 13:17:39 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Xorv wrote:
Andochas wrote:
Back on #148,

Here's a great blog post by Tippia on the ISK generated by Incursions http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose



This rant does not even touch that worm hole blue loot IS GREATER THEN INCURSION LOOT WAS AS AN ISK INJECTOR
and skirts the real culpable causes of inflation. If the real ISK hoses have to be capped instead of killing whole communities of people working together WH's & bounties should have seen the 10% nerf before Incursions did

Hell even CCP Sound wave has mentioned more then once Incursion ISK well:


cookies for wh isk farmer http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=2397

do you want some???

can that ever happen in incursion site???
xxanjoahir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#234 - 2012-05-08 16:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: xxanjoahir
Asmodes Reynolds wrote:


I fail to see the point you're trying to make with this post? please clarify? it just seems to make my point even clearer?

The null sec mechanics are broken because you can make the same amount in hi-sec, incursions as you do in null sec Ratting .

However the null sec incursions/low sec. Do not pay out enough to justify the logistics headaches.

By all means I'm not saying that high sec incursions shouldn't pay out more than a level 4, because I think they should and I don't think high sec been nerfed because you guys already have a terrible enough. However the gap needs to be widened between between the two to justify the extra hassle.

my opinion on incursions, is quite clear from my original post : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1246349#post1246349 & and here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1262117#post1262117 (bottom section) Copy here for lazy people"

As far as incursion balancing the CCP must make up their mind what they want incursions to be. So if we want some progress .


Stop kidding yourself - the biggest reason why people move to null sec is because they get pvp, and becuase they are able to make isk easy is a far 2nd reason. The gap between pay out in null sec and high sec is wide enough if you actually looted and salvaged everything rather than just killing for bounties. I could do 100m in a using a tanked ishtar solo with a salvager and scoop loot, shiny ships aside, high sec traditional BS fleets wouldnt make that in VG sites.
Asmodes Reynolds
Rayn Enterprises
#235 - 2012-05-08 16:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Asmodes Reynolds
xxanjoahir wrote:
Asmodes Reynolds wrote:


I fail to see the point you're trying to make with this post? please clarify? it just seems to make my point even clearer?

The null sec mechanics are broken because you can make the same amount in hi-sec, incursions as you do in null sec Ratting .

However the null sec incursions/low sec. Do not pay out enough to justify the logistics headaches.

By all means I'm not saying that high sec incursions shouldn't pay out more than a level 4, because I think they should and I don't think high sec been nerfed because you guys already have a terrible enough. However the gap needs to be widened between between the two to justify the extra hassle.

my opinion on incursions, is quite clear from my original post : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1246349#post1246349 & and here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1262117#post1262117 (bottom section) Copy here for lazy people"

As far as incursion balancing the CCP must make up their mind what they want incursions to be. So if we want some progress .


Stop kidding yourself - the biggest reason why people move to null sec is because they get pvp, and becuase they are able to make isk easy is a far 2nd reason. The gap between pay out in null sec and high sec is wide enough if you actually looted and salvaged everything rather than just killing for bounties. I could do 100m in a using a tanked ishtar solo with a salvager and scoop loot, shiny ships aside, high sec traditional BS fleets wouldnt make that in VG sites.


You are full of shut, with this comment completely, because doing site even with a shiny ship Ishtar or otherwise, you make about 60-70 an hour, yes if you alt to salvage behind you. You could probably make more. However that is a second character.
Why do that, when you could buy a character and put that second account and dual box hi-sec incursions. Again, that would be safer, make you more money, and the logistically easier Hack if I could afford to buy two characters I'd be doing that now.

Ps: if you want eft warrior this with perfect skills I challenge you, my ratting ship, without drones, puts out 750 DPS, if you can get an Ishtar Up to 750 Dps with enough cargo space to salvage and looting entire site ( is warping off, could possibly losing your site ,and it affects isk) remember it has to have no of guns in the high slots, it needs tractor beams and Salvagers and be able to tank a sanctum. It's not going to happen. But feel free to try. (Salvage only makes you money if you can sell it. Which means moving it to the market system in a hauler)Which is more logistical problems and risk. Further proving my argument.
Asmodes Reynolds
Rayn Enterprises
#236 - 2012-05-08 17:08:11 UTC
and as far as your argument about people move out 0.0 just for the PvP You're kidding yourself, if that was the case, then every alliance would be like pandemic Legion. And not have the burden of sovereignty,But still have the money moons you don't need sov to put up tower You just need to be able to Take care of it. None of the sovereignty isk sinks and all of the PVP. Which is discussion that has been had because sovereignty keeps getting nerfed(Jump bridge, anomaly, etc.), at what point did you just say screw it. And abandoned this feature. It is not worth the logistical headache.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#237 - 2012-05-08 17:25:27 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
I'm sorry CCP Soundwave but the changes DEV's made show they were seriously out of touch with the Incursion running shield & armour fleet communities. From the responces I've heard in our shared FC channel the contact you made with us was sparse ( probably 1 sided ) and presented when things were pretty much set in stone anyways. You were told that OTA's would stack up like they are in the forums I believe the same was true from the test server responces. NCN still stack like always. The problems with assault NCN's been beaten like a dead horse yet its been gathering flies since Incursion sites were first brought out & the duct tape makes them playable but too tedius compared to any other site ( except possibly now the NEW OTA's )
HOW ABOUT ADDING TO THE SITE SPAWN CODE AN EXCEPTION WHICH PREVENTS THE SYSTEM FROM BEING 100% OF A SINGLE SITE
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#238 - 2012-05-08 18:06:44 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
I'm sorry CCP Soundwave but the changes DEV's made show they were seriously out of touch with the Incursion running shield & armour fleet communities. From the responces I've heard in our shared FC channel the contact you made with us was sparse ( probably 1 sided ) and presented when things were pretty much set in stone anyways. You were told that OTA's would stack up like they are in the forums I believe the same was true from the test server responces. NCN still stack like always. The problems with assault NCN's been beaten like a dead horse yet its been gathering flies since Incursion sites were first brought out & the duct tape makes them playable but too tedius compared to any other site ( except possibly now the NEW OTA's )
FAIL



Stop repeating yourself.

Its getting old.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#239 - 2012-05-08 18:16:55 UTC
Herr Ronin wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
I'm sorry CCP Soundwave but the changes DEV's made show they were seriously out of touch with the Incursion running shield & armour fleet communities. From the responces I've heard in our shared FC channel the contact you made with us was sparse ( probably 1 sided ) and presented when things were pretty much set in stone anyways. You were told that OTA's would stack up like they are in the forums I believe the same was true from the test server responces. NCN still stack like always. The problems with assault NCN's been beaten like a dead horse yet its been gathering flies since Incursion sites were first brought out & the duct tape makes them playable but too tedius compared to any other site ( except possibly now the NEW OTA's )
FAIL



Stop repeating yourself.

Its getting old.

You know he's literally been filing petitions about this, sending in bug reports and appearing for these semi-literate single paragraph wonder comments in every single forum thread that so much as mentions the word "incursions".

Makes me pity whatever devs have to wade through those threads. I wonder how many devs have him blocked just to save time?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#240 - 2012-05-08 18:24:14 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Herr Ronin wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
I'm sorry CCP Soundwave but the changes DEV's made show they were seriously out of touch with the Incursion running shield & armour fleet communities. From the responces I've heard in our shared FC channel the contact you made with us was sparse ( probably 1 sided ) and presented when things were pretty much set in stone anyways. You were told that OTA's would stack up like they are in the forums I believe the same was true from the test server responces. NCN still stack like always. The problems with assault NCN's been beaten like a dead horse yet its been gathering flies since Incursion sites were first brought out & the duct tape makes them playable but too tedius compared to any other site ( except possibly now the NEW OTA's )
FAIL



Stop repeating yourself.

Its getting old.

You know he's literally been filing petitions about this, sending in bug reports and appearing for these semi-literate single paragraph wonder comments in every single forum thread that so much as mentions the word "incursions".

Makes me pity whatever devs have to wade through those threads. I wonder how many devs have him blocked just to save time?



Well that's the thing: This thread has turned to crap, All the good or interesting points have been posted, But now people are just repeating what other players are saying in the past page's, I mean can people just take time and do some reading, It won't take that long to get up-to-date with the thread, But no, They post the same crap over and over.

Tip's to posting:

Make sure the point hasn't been said already.

Post interesting or valid points



I will admit, This thread has had so much fail already, Such a shame that people don't know what common sense is.


I'll Race You For A Amburhgear