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More FW changes on SiSi

First post
Author
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-05-02 17:53:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
I havent read them yet, but here are:

Inferno Notes

EDIT:

Here is the FW bit.

Revamped FW:
- LP for kills
- Bunkers are now infrastructure hubs
- LP for all FW actions (capturing complexes, capturing infrastructures hubs, etc)
- New FW front page
- Consequences for capturing systems/regions (benefits for you, grief for your enemy)
- Capturing FW system affect SOV ownership
- Map filters for FW have been revamped

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Deen Wispa
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-05-02 18:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
Regarding LP for FW kills, it would be great if more people involved on the kill would result in less LP per person. Therefore making thing less blobby and enhancing the small gang aspect of FW.

I'm dissapointed to see that docking restrictions is being implemented considering Hans was very opposed to this and voiced it to CCP. And yet CCP is still boneheaded to implement the docking restrictions.


From CCP Rubberband;

Quote:
Without going into exhaustive detail:
1. Cannot dock in stations that are in systems controlled by an enemy
- Example: Minmatar cannot dock in stations in a FW system controlled by the Amarr/Caldari
- You also cannot use station services if you docked before system flipped
- Ninja Edit: This does not affect neutrals

2. There are 5 levels of discounts for a number of different things - if you own the system and have upgraded it
- Medical clone discounts (from 10% in increments of 10 up to 50% discount)
- Number of assembly lines increases by 1 for every level
- All broker fees discounted (from 10% in increments of 10 up to 50%)
- NOTE: You only get these discounts in the FW system
- ADDENDUM: These discounts apply to neutrals not in FW

3. Militia store LP prices are affected by faction wide performance (discounts in increments of 10%)
- Note that Datacores have been split and moved in FW LP stores
- Pending implementation, LP gain increase for all ways in which LP can be gained in FW - FW Kills, FW Missions, Complexs etc

I do believe these are the most prominent consequences implemented/pending.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-05-02 18:17:35 UTC
I can see the theory behind it, but actual use will be sticky.

I think it would cause less problems if they just denied the use of station services (fitting, repair, clone, market, etc.).

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#4 - 2012-05-02 18:52:58 UTC
Just to be clear, if you stay out of the FW system you can travel/trade/dock/manufacture in any system regardless of who is currently holding sov there? (Assuming your natural faction standings are high enough for them to not shoot at you).

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-05-02 18:58:00 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Just to be clear, if you stay out of the FW system you can travel/trade/dock/manufacture in any system regardless of who is currently holding sov there? (Assuming your natural faction standings are high enough for them to not shoot at you).



That seems to be what they are saying.

Its pure lunacy. Though it will encourge more neutral alts. That is not a good thing.

I like the general idea. Just sounds like it might need tweaking.

Unlike player owned corps in 0.0, "griefer" corps can join FW without any player ability to prevent it. They can play with the LP and plexes to the detriment of the rest of that FW faction. It would be different if we could control who our "allies" are, but we simply cant with the FW mechanic. Locking us out of our ships/stations seems a harsh penalty under those circumstances.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#6 - 2012-05-02 19:56:42 UTC
Who cares about the FW changes! Check this part out!

Drone Damage module (Extrinsic Damage Amplifier)
• CPU Rigs (Small/Medium/Large Processor Overclocking Unit)
Fueled Shield booster (Small/Medium/Large Ancillary Shield Booster), using Cap Boosters as charges
• Light and Medium Web drones
• Resistance shifting armor hardener (Armor Adaptive Hardener)

Also i agree that a denial of services and having the station guns shoot at you would be more appropriate that locking you out of stations...
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#7 - 2012-05-02 20:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Shame about the no docking as that will just encourage more blobing for the obvious soon to come mad rush to gank every station system.

The idea that I thought would have been more viable was to allow docking but deny station services & have gate guns attack unfriendly Militia if they agressed anyone on the said station. In other words the station should treat the enemy Militia as if they were GCC if they tried to camp it.

By doing that and denying station services it stops the ghey station games but still doesn't make living in low sec FW space impossible for the more casual players.

At least for Caldari, if we ever got locked out of all the systems, weshould still be able to live in near by stations systems if we want to base in the backwater systems of Placid. We could easily live in the non FW systems around Ostingele, Aeschee or even Syndicate & Black Rise is already it just fine to base out of high sec if you have to as it's actually more of an advantage IMO.

As far as the Gals if they ever get locked out of all the systems they are kinda screwed as far as trying to base in Caldari space unless they wanted to live in Lonetrek. Lol
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-05-02 20:25:41 UTC  |  Edited by: BolsterBomb
I dont mind the lock out of stations. Here IMO is why I dont care.

1) Move your crap to high sec. Its not like there arent a high sec system directly across from FW losec. There are at least 3 entrances from each faction.

2) Stations will be used as a forward base (remote stations) to conquerer other systems.

3) Factions will now have to PROTECT their home system creating a true home system. If the faction does not rally together your crap gets locked out. Your fault.

4)The new changes forces FW to work closer together. *bonus*


I like the changes, and will be moving my stuff back to a high sec location soon enough.


ninja edit: I foresee Gals running from Nenn in explodable haulers soon

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Lucas Schuyler
Mortis Noir.
#9 - 2012-05-02 20:45:51 UTC
I think that at the very least, if they want to close docking access for MOST stations it would be OK, as long as actual Militia Stations remained open to "freedom fighters" trying to take back systems.
mental maverick
Percussive Diplomacy
PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
#10 - 2012-05-02 20:59:25 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
I dont mind the lock out of stations. Here IMO is why I dont care.

1) Move your crap to high sec. Its not like there arent a high sec system directly across from FW losec. There are at least 3 entrances from each faction.

2) Stations will be used as a forward base (remote stations) to conquerer other systems.

3) Factions will now have to PROTECT their home system creating a true home system. If the faction does not rally together your crap gets locked out. Your fault.

4)The new changes forces FW to work closer together. *bonus*


I like the changes, and will be moving my stuff back to a high sec location soon enough.


ninja edit: I foresee Gals running from Nenn in explodable haulers soon


How is, potentially, a lot of players moving out of low sec to not risk getting their **** trapped good for low sec. FW inhabitants might not be all the people living in low sec atm but they do constitute a big part of the low sec population. Having that big part up and leave to base out of high sec is not something that I would consider good for low sec in general and FW in particular.

The thing Mutnin mentioned about station services and what not being revoked sounds like a much better idea imo.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-05-02 21:04:22 UTC
mental maverick wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
I dont mind the lock out of stations. Here IMO is why I dont care.

1) Move your crap to high sec. Its not like there arent a high sec system directly across from FW losec. There are at least 3 entrances from each faction.

2) Stations will be used as a forward base (remote stations) to conquerer other systems.

3) Factions will now have to PROTECT their home system creating a true home system. If the faction does not rally together your crap gets locked out. Your fault.

4)The new changes forces FW to work closer together. *bonus*


I like the changes, and will be moving my stuff back to a high sec location soon enough.


ninja edit: I foresee Gals running from Nenn in explodable haulers soon


How is, potentially, a lot of players moving out of low sec to not risk getting their **** trapped good for low sec. FW inhabitants might not be all the people living in low sec atm but they do constitute a big part of the low sec population. Having that big part up and leave to base out of high sec is not something that I would consider good for low sec in general and FW in particular.

The thing Mutnin mentioned about station services and what not being revoked sounds like a much better idea imo.



Because it is forcing FW to be FW and not a corp here or there spread out. Remember the purpose of FW is a SINGLE militia working together. Right now its like little pirate groups that are blue to each other.

I do not think that, that is what CCP imagined FW to be. I imagine they wanted it to be a giant alliance. In most alliances there is a "home system" They occupy other systems but most of the people do not live in the outskirts which currently many FW corps do. They live in a single home systems and base out of it.

If militia (gallente did this previously) choose a base location (like Hey was) the system would never be flipped due to the heavy presence of combined forces. Currently I can take a fleet and roam through the entire pipes without a problem. When you have more combined items (comms, stations, systems, bases) it makes for bigger better battles.

That is why I like this. It takes small corps and forces them to play in FW. You can still be a small corp with your own identity but now you MUST work together. Otherwise why not simply go live in npc 0.0 and travel up to kill people.

FW needs a big "ownership" buff and this is it. By creating a purpose now militia has to work together or suffer together.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Maz3r Rakum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-05-02 21:21:13 UTC
Locking people out of stations is such a truly **** idea.
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2012-05-02 21:36:16 UTC
Awsome

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#14 - 2012-05-02 21:42:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
BolsterBomb wrote:
Because it is forcing FW to be FW and not a corp here or there spread out. Remember the purpose of FW is a SINGLE militia working together. Right now its like little pirate groups that are blue to each other.

Working together towards what? Part of the appeal of militia is that it allows for smaller entities to operate relatively or completely independent of each other... while still killing the opposing side as much as possible. A lot of us just have no interest in being "organized" like a 0.0 entity. In fact... many of the people I know are 0.0 "burnouts" who came to militia because they abhor the organization and "rules" of 0.0 groups.

BolsterBomb wrote:
I do not think that, that is what CCP imagined FW to be. I imagine they wanted it to be a giant alliance. In most alliances there is a "home system" They occupy other systems but most of the people do not live in the outskirts which currently many FW corps do. They live in a single home systems and base out of it.

I honestly don't think CCP imagined anything beyond "give people a cheap way to kill other people and have RP fluff stuff and stuffs."

BolsterBomb wrote:
If militia (gallente did this previously) choose a base location (like Hey was) the system would never be flipped due to the heavy presence of combined forces. Currently I can take a fleet and roam through the entire pipes without a problem. When you have more combined items (comms, stations, systems, bases) it makes for bigger better battles.

So basically, it's going to be almost exactly like 0.0 is now except with no bubbles, more neutrals, and low-sec mechanics. No thanks.
0.0 is largely static thanks to these types of mechanics as it encourages people to consolidate in highly defensible areas and "blob up" outside of them. For me, this is anathema to what FW should be.

BolsterBomb wrote:
That is why I like this. It takes small corps and forces them to play in FW. You can still be a small corp with your own identity but now you MUST work together. Otherwise why not simply go live in npc 0.0 and travel up to kill people.

And this is precisely the reason I do not like it. Many of us are smaller entities for a reason (ex. don't like rules, don't like dealing with certain people, prefer to operate solo/small, prefer different/oddball tactics, don't like dealing with political BS/drama, etc.).


edit: just to be clear... save for the denial of docking rights and station services based on system occupancy, all the other changes are good and I look forward to them. I just want to kill things. I don't want to log in, see that the system I'm in is about to flipped, and have to plex like mad for hours just so I can continue using my stuff.
Seraphine Keratuus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-05-02 21:44:32 UTC
I cant wait for the day the bears realize that we can stop them from getting to their agents.

As far as iam concerned..Amarr go grab every System with TLF Staions we grab every System with a 24IC and let the tears flow..
Maz3r Rakum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-05-02 21:49:19 UTC
Seraphine Keratuus wrote:
I cant wait for the day the bears realize that we can stop them from getting to their agents.

As far as iam concerned..Amarr go grab every System with TLF Staions we grab every System with a 24IC and let the tears flow..


lol, I've considered several times war deccing the bear corps that contribute nothing within my own milita. Then again bombers are such a ***** to catch :p
mental maverick
Percussive Diplomacy
PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
#17 - 2012-05-02 21:57:41 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
Because it is forcing FW to be FW and not a corp here or there spread out. Remember the purpose of FW is a SINGLE militia working together. Right now its like little pirate groups that are blue to each other.
Which makes FW much more vibrant imo, creating inhouse drama, for those who like that, and more smaller entities basing/roaming over a larger area of low sec.

BolsterBomb wrote:
I do not think that, that is what CCP imagined FW to be. I imagine they wanted it to be a giant alliance. In most alliances there is a "home system" They occupy other systems but most of the people do not live in the outskirts which currently many FW corps do. They live in a single home systems and base out of it.
So what you are after is basicly just emulating 0.0?

BolsterBomb wrote:
If militia (gallente did this previously) choose a base location (like Hey was) the system would never be flipped due to the heavy presence of combined forces. Currently I can take a fleet and roam through the entire pipes without a problem. When you have more combined items (comms, stations, systems, bases) it makes for bigger better battles.
So how would fewer but bigger gangs make your roams any better if you are having trouble finding fights now?

BolsterBomb wrote:
That is why I like this. It takes small corps and forces them to play in FW. You can still be a small corp with your own identity but now you MUST work together. Otherwise why not simply go live in npc 0.0 and travel up to kill people.
No, it forces smaller corps in FW to either band together and form "a giant alliance" and play at 0.0 sov, which is not what low sec currently is, or should be, about imo, or move and base in high sec and do planned roams into low sec. Which ever it turns out to be it will make the pipes even less trafficked then they are now.

BolsterBomb wrote:
FW needs a big "ownership" buff and this is it. By creating a purpose now militia has to work together or suffer together.
Maybe it does but not in a way that promotes big alliances and bigger fleets and emulates 0.0 sov warfare, which btw is being bitched about to no end by people residing in 0.0. Does that tell you nothing about how bad this is when people who are experiencing it first hand don't like the way it works?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#18 - 2012-05-02 23:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Why do I get the feeling we're witnessing the last days of the Caldari militia? Be careful for what you wish for Bolster. Get your corp mates to go find another isk-generating activity because it's all downhill for you guys from here on out.


I would just like to know if we're not going to be allowed to dock in Caldari hi-sec systems ? (lol at the complete lack of logic w.r.t station docking)
Pulgy
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-05-03 00:05:36 UTC
Any word on the cyno jamming thingy?
No range? No problem!   Join the Church of the Holy Blaster™ . A Hybrid religion.
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
#20 - 2012-05-03 00:08:31 UTC
Removal of docking rights is great. War should have consequences.

And remember; removing docking rights does not stop you contracting stuff, neither does it stop you using an alt to grab stuff.... OR... *shock horror* dropping militia for a day to move stuff out yourself to somewhere warm and fluffy where you truly belong.

It should provoke some good pew pew - Anyone crying about this change is being totally melodramatic.
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