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Warfare & Tactics

 
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More FW changes on SiSi

First post
Author
SigmaPi
Ambivalent Inc
Wormhole Society
#21 - 2012-05-03 00:42:58 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Removal of docking rights is great. War should have consequences.

And remember; removing docking rights does not stop you contracting stuff, neither does it stop you using an alt to grab stuff.... OR... *shock horror* dropping militia for a day to move stuff out yourself to somewhere warm and fluffy where you truly belong.

It should provoke some good pew pew - Anyone crying about this change is being totally melodramatic.


You think being forced to quit or use neutral alts in lowsec is perfectly fine? I don't know much about Gal/Cal space, but both of the major minmatar alliances currently live in systems that are "Amarrian Sov" but have been occupied by us for ages. Does this stupid change mean that we're all ****** just because it's still "Amarr Sov" even though we've lived in and owned these systems for months and months?

The total system station lockout is a load of ballocs and must not go through for the sake of militia. If it does (even if a few small parties think its the best thing ever) I promise it will be the end of FW as we know it today.
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
#22 - 2012-05-03 01:20:15 UTC
SigmaPi wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Removal of docking rights is great. War should have consequences.

And remember; removing docking rights does not stop you contracting stuff, neither does it stop you using an alt to grab stuff.... OR... *shock horror* dropping militia for a day to move stuff out yourself to somewhere warm and fluffy where you truly belong.

It should provoke some good pew pew - Anyone crying about this change is being totally melodramatic.


You think being forced to quit or use neutral alts in lowsec is perfectly fine? I don't know much about Gal/Cal space, but both of the major minmatar alliances currently live in systems that are "Amarrian Sov" but have been occupied by us for ages. Does this stupid change mean that we're all ****** just because it's still "Amarr Sov" even though we've lived in and owned these systems for months and months?

The total system station lockout is a load of ballocs and must not go through for the sake of militia. If it does (even if a few small parties think its the best thing ever) I promise it will be the end of FW as we know it today.


Good.

FW as we know it today (especially occupancy part) is bollocks.

I've been in Minmatar militia myself and you've got Auga, Dal and plenty of other systems that people base out of (I based from Bosbogur and Kamela in my time there). Are you really so important you think CCP should look at your case in a special light because you've based from your current home a while? Man up and adapt....
Is it really so game breaking for you and the rest of your militia to move systems until you capture your current home(s) back?

You conveniently dont even acknowledge you could drop militia (with no penalty or even record of doing so if you're worried you'll look crap) if accessing locked items is your beef ... Gosh, 1 day out of militia, how will you survive?
You can base out of a POS if you dont feel capable of keeping your "home", or you could move your home to highsec which is where most other crybabaies live.

At the end of the day, these changes will freshen up FW and give more reasons to fight in plexes. More reasons to pew pew, isn't that why most of us are in FW?
SigmaPi
Ambivalent Inc
Wormhole Society
#23 - 2012-05-03 01:23:28 UTC
I'm glad to see there are still people out there stupid enough to think being forced to use neutral alts and/or being forced to quit the very game mechanic that's being 'updated' is a good idea.

Please don't breed.
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
#24 - 2012-05-03 01:31:33 UTC
And I'm glad of some off topic concession rant about my breeding rather than a worthwhile rebuttal.

I'm just glad you've saved me wasting more time on you. Blink
Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-05-03 01:39:46 UTC
So it appears to be the exact same plexing mechanic.

Hey, how often are plexing rewards given out? I did two offensive minors in an enemy system and I haven't been compensated.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.

Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-05-03 01:52:07 UTC
mental maverick wrote:


How is, potentially, a lot of players moving out of low sec to not risk getting their **** trapped good for low sec. FW inhabitants might not be all the people living in low sec atm but they do constitute a big part of the low sec population. Having that big part up and leave to base out of high sec is not something that I would consider good for low sec in general and FW in particular.

The thing Mutnin mentioned about station services and what not being revoked sounds like a much better idea imo.

Indubitably

Personally, I think they should add a handful more militia stations in the warzone (especially near Tama) and have the lockout only apply to them. The non-militia stations will add some flavor. Problem is, that would take more time and planning, not the rushjobhalfass approach I think we are going to get.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.

Grimfang Wyrmspawn
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-05-03 02:00:38 UTC
So we can't dock in enemy occupied FW space, but can in their hi-sec?

Am I reading this right?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#28 - 2012-05-03 02:13:15 UTC
Grimfang Wyrmspawn wrote:
So we can't dock in enemy occupied FW space, but can in their hi-sec?

Am I reading this right?



Yes amarr can dock in rens but not in kamela if it is occupied by minmatar.

Some people were complaining that this change with the short time to flip a system is a problem.

But in my opinion refusing docking combined with a long time to flip a system will be worse. Long timers just give the larger side time to get their big blob together and will just lead to sov null sec blob wins warfare.

It would be better if systems could be flipped faster that way smaller gangs can have an impact before the blob forms up and arrives.

But yeah it would be better if we weren't locked out of stations to begin with.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

mental maverick
Percussive Diplomacy
PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
#29 - 2012-05-03 02:24:50 UTC
Quote:
Without going into exhaustive detail:
1. Cannot dock in stations that are in systems controlled by an enemy
- Example: Minmatar cannot dock in stations in a FW system controlled by the Amarr/Caldari
- You also cannot use station services if you docked before system flipped
- Ninja Edit: This does not affect neutrals

2. There are 5 levels of discounts for a number of different things - if you own the system and have upgraded it
- Medical clone discounts (from 10% in increments of 10 up to 50% discount)
- Number of assembly lines increases by 1 for every level
- All broker fees discounted (from 10% in increments of 10 up to 50%)
- NOTE: You only get these discounts in the FW system
- ADDENDUM: These discounts apply to neutrals not in FW

3. Militia store LP prices are affected by faction wide performance (discounts in increments of 10%)
- Note that Datacores have been split and moved in FW LP stores
- Pending implementation, LP gain increase for all ways in which LP can be gained in FW - FW Kills, FW Missions, Complexs etc

I do believe these are the most prominent consequences implemented/pending.


Ok, so those bolded parts there means I don't have to be in FW to reap the benefits of occupancy?

So can someone tell me again the reason for staying in the Militia as opposed to leaving and setting our standings/war deccing manually and act as true privateers? Just put a bunch of plexing alts in a separate corp, join militia and stick them in cloaky t1 frigs to capture plexes and fight with impunity on our "neutral" mains. I'd rather take the chance of fighting the occational fight under gate guns as opposed to not being able to dock tbh. Plus, no gateguns in plexes...
Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#30 - 2012-05-03 02:26:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Cromwell Savage
I'm not in FW to pretend to be in 0.0...

If the station dock denial is incorperated as it is now - full system shut-down....then FW can kiss my bullocks.

I'll drop FW...blue my remaining Gallente allies...and still shoot the same "people" I am now...

Absolutely terrible idea as it stands now.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#31 - 2012-05-03 02:59:21 UTC
mental maverick wrote:
Quote:
Without going into exhaustive detail:
1. Cannot dock in stations that are in systems controlled by an enemy
- Example: Minmatar cannot dock in stations in a FW system controlled by the Amarr/Caldari
- You also cannot use station services if you docked before system flipped
- Ninja Edit: This does not affect neutrals

2. There are 5 levels of discounts for a number of different things - if you own the system and have upgraded it
- Medical clone discounts (from 10% in increments of 10 up to 50% discount)
- Number of assembly lines increases by 1 for every level
- All broker fees discounted (from 10% in increments of 10 up to 50%)
- NOTE: You only get these discounts in the FW system
- ADDENDUM: These discounts apply to neutrals not in FW

3. Militia store LP prices are affected by faction wide performance (discounts in increments of 10%)
- Note that Datacores have been split and moved in FW LP stores
- Pending implementation, LP gain increase for all ways in which LP can be gained in FW - FW Kills, FW Missions, Complexs etc

I do believe these are the most prominent consequences implemented/pending.


Ok, so those bolded parts there means I don't have to be in FW to reap the benefits of occupancy?

So can someone tell me again the reason for staying in the Militia as opposed to leaving and setting our standings/war deccing manually and act as true privateers? Just put a bunch of plexing alts in a separate corp, join militia and stick them in cloaky t1 frigs to capture plexes and fight with impunity on our "neutral" mains. I'd rather take the chance of fighting the occational fight under gate guns as opposed to not being able to dock tbh. Plus, no gateguns in plexes...



I predict the pve will give you mad amounts of lp. I intend to give it a fair shake, but it looks like the best bet will be to put your pvp characters in a neutral corp and have your pve alts in fw.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Mechael
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-05-03 03:53:07 UTC
Faster system flipping sounds like it would be in order here.

The enemy not letting you dock in their stations makes sense. Hell, enemy sentry guns shooting you when you get close makes sense. Having to gather together gigantor blobs to duke it out before anything meaningful happens does not make sense.

Faster system flipping and/or a more dynamic "contested" period is definitely what is in order here.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.

X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
#33 - 2012-05-03 04:05:48 UTC
Mechael wrote:
Faster system flipping sounds like it would be in order here..
A dedicated core of players can flip a system in about 8 hours from start to finish if there are no plexes piled up. Sooner if there are. Want faster?
Mechael
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-05-03 04:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
X Gallentius wrote:
Mechael wrote:
Faster system flipping sounds like it would be in order here..
A dedicated core of players can flip a system in about 8 hours from start to finish if there are no plexes piled up. Sooner if there are. Want faster?


How many pilots in this dedicated core? And if that's true, then nobody should be here complaining about how they're about to get kicked out of their home station. Clearly grinding down that bunker isn't a problem.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#35 - 2012-05-03 04:35:37 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
Regarding LP for FW kills, it would be great if more people involved on the kill would result in less LP per person. Therefore making thing less blobby and enhancing the small gang aspect of FW.

I'm dissapointed to see that docking restrictions is being implemented considering Hans was very opposed to this and voiced it to CCP. And yet CCP is still boneheaded to implement the docking restrictions.

Hate to rain on Hans' parade, but everyone was/is against it. It works in blob-land largely due to sov. being a linchpin for just about anything worth undocking for, numbers (pilots, income, et al) are considerably larger and they are drowning in bubbles and capitals.
BolsterBomb wrote:
...FW needs a big "ownership" buff and this is it. By creating a purpose now militia has to work together or suffer together.

Probably what they were thinking when the brain-fart oozed out .. but as with all such things it won't work. That kind of system works if sides are roughly equal (see every FPS made the last ten years) but here the various sides are insanely unbalanced;
On Caldari/Gallente front you have a huge number disparity and no amount of Gallente uber-ness can fight against 4-5x the numbers for a prolonged period of time = Gallente gets to sit in highsec.
On Amarr/Matar front numbers are roughly equal but with very distinct timezones, layout of the area is so immensely in the insurgents favour as to make it a foregone conclusion = Amarr gets to sit in highsec after a long but ultimately futile fight.

And that is before taking into account the potential abuse by null-monkeys .. enlist an alt corp, dump all their LP into a few systems and use it as the alliances private FarmVille, blob the snot out of anything threatening it (neutrals are to get full benefit of upgrades apparently Roll).

Station lock-out will break infinitely more than it will solve, but since it is probably merely a tick-box in the database it doesn't require work to implement and is thus highly favoured in Iceland Big smile
Mechael wrote:
How many pilots in this dedicated core? And if that's true, then nobody should be here complaining about how they're about to get kicked out of their home station. Clearly grinding down that bunker isn't a problem.

Enough to be able to outblob any opposition in the high-value plexes .. can be anywhere from 5-50 depending on timezone/holidays/activity. Station ping-pong was among one of the most hated things in the old null sov system, now we get to experience its revival.

By the way, since we already have LP-for-Kills and they mention it as a feature I take it the amount will be bumped significantly .. prep your alts for exploitation. With LP scored by repeatedly killing an alt and the LP raked in ninja capping plexes in the ass-end of the universe the navy market is guaranteed to be at its current level (ie. rock-bottom) well into next year.

PS: CCP has not managed to make a single change to FW without introducing one or more at times crippling bugs, so be on the lookout for hilarity such as the classic cloaking capture, victims getting LP for dying, stations firing on people rather than just locking them out, sovereignty inadvertently changing rather than occupancy etc.
Personally love when FW gets "fixed" as it means I get to be bug-hunter for a week! Smile
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
#36 - 2012-05-03 05:22:08 UTC
Pulgy wrote:
Any word on the cyno jamming thingy?
What? You want to give a mechanism for defending low sec systems from 0.0 supercap roflblobs to the militias? That would affect the Eve universe outside of FW (which I think the CCP dev said they wanted FW to do, but whatever... ).


It is better to offer near meaningless benefits to upgrading a system.

Name one low sec system where production is hindered due to lack of production slots.

X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
#37 - 2012-05-03 05:46:43 UTC
Mechael wrote:

How many pilots in this dedicated core? And if that's true, then nobody should be here complaining about how they're about to get kicked out of their home station. Clearly grinding down that bunker isn't a problem.


The real question is whether or not implementing this feature will lead to more fights. Will we readjust our in-game priorities so that we bring more fights to the plexes. Do we engage the other side when we have a lower chance of winning than before the patch?

Will we decide that keeping sovereignty is more important than fighs and therefore we roflblob plexes - reducing the chance of a fight but increasing our ability to hold our system?

My guess is we'll see a flurry of plex fighting activity the first month this new system is out, and then one side (Gallente) will gain some dominance and then the other side (Caldari) will flee to high sec to keep their assets safe. As they flee, lucrative mission systems will fall, and many of them will either leave FW forever, or will spend significant time outside of FW areas making isk. Fewer targets long term means fewer fights long term.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#38 - 2012-05-03 07:34:05 UTC
Seraphine Keratuus wrote:
I cant wait for the day the bears realize that we can stop them from getting to their agents..


1. The new system encourages militia to huddle into select systems that they can safely invest LP into and defend across timezones.

2. The new system rewards militia activities (plexing, etc.) with LP.

Does that combination of features strike you as carebear unfriendly?

Suppose that you wanted to farm LP by running plexes: would you rather the serious FWers have four ships (minor, medium, large, bunker) all over the damned place, and for potentially everyone in a militia to decide that they're awfully fond of different systems which they'd live in and see you enter? Or would you rather them mostly not be around at all outside of specific systems, not notice your actions until after you've run a several plexes, and have to make five jumps to switch out from the BC after you run into a medium?
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#39 - 2012-05-03 07:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
X Gallentius wrote:
Why do I get the feeling we're witnessing the last days of the Caldari militia? Be careful for what you wish for Bolster. Get your corp mates to go find another isk-generating activity because it's all downhill for you guys from here on out.


I would just like to know if we're not going to be allowed to dock in Caldari hi-sec systems ? (lol at the complete lack of logic w.r.t station docking)



I can't wait because then maybe all those millions of LP's I have stashed away will finally be worth something again when all the mission farming alts get locked out of the stations.. I can't wait to see them all join Galentte & Minmatar.. So please dO IT as it will make me very space rich.

Twisted

In fact I tried to float the idea of letting you Gals take all Caldari systems now when they mean nothing so we could go get rich taking them when it paid LP's to do so.. Sadly I couldn't get much support on this idea.. What?
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#40 - 2012-05-03 07:45:02 UTC
well .... in a first moment I wanted to say CCP u F8ck1ng F8cke0 it again .....

on the other hand ... well if we got locked in system ... corp will quit fw ... move assets and go on ... jump into fw.



CCP helped blobing again and dedicated team can flip system in 6 hours .... hey gals ... how about flipping nisuwa before release?

I must say station denial is worst thing they come with .... overblobing is problem which they strengtened again.

Consequesnces i see:

1) people will plex more - defensive plexing with ****** ships alts will be golden mine (gals using bunch of these right now)
2) people will be pushed out of low sec - very very very bad
3) corp hopping will be normal - which sucks
4) This might turn fw into null like wasteland with alts running plexes (due to standing nature of FW agro u just need 1 or 2 alts to run on the button and rest of the ships poping rats. Especially all together with removing of gcc/gateguns fire from lowsec
5) One major alliance which will decide to rampant the war will totaly anihilate the battlefield by sheer numbers plexing and way how fast they can bash the bunkers. It is easy to lock few key systems and **** with major militia corps.

The main problem is, that it is hard to test it on testing server. So real impacts are very hard to foresee.

Dear CCP we dont want ******* null sec in lowsec .... one of many lowsec dwellers. We want more people here to fight and fights so **** out with ur stupid null ideas.