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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#361 - 2012-03-06 19:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Rico Minali wrote:
The idea is fundamentally great, but like many people have pointed out, all of us who have made sure we are crosstrained extensively are going to be mighty pissed...

So, basically what would happen is overnight I would lose the ability to fly 3/4 of the BC and destroyers entirely and have to retrain, which lets face it is complete crap. Being able to jump literally into any T1 or t2 subcap is something I made sure I am capable of.


Not to single you out, but yet again...

"IF YOU CAN FLY IT NOW, YOU CAN FLY IT LATER."

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#362 - 2012-03-06 19:49:53 UTC
CCP Navigator is updating the devblog as we speak :)
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#363 - 2012-03-06 19:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Freelancer117
1st: CSM needs to be a major player in this like with the removal of learning skills, and rebalancing of the social skills

2nd: WHEN you redo the ships and their skills, make sure you reimburse players that at that time have all racial frigates
to lvl5 and destroyer to lvl5 with enough reimbursed skillpoints to get all racial destroyers skill to lvl5.

same applies to the all racial battle cruiser skills, if the capsuleer has all racial cruiser skills to lvl5 and bc to lvl5

I don't care how you do this, but else there will be a major riot.

Im thinking of bubble layers (dictors) and fleet boosters (fleet command)

3rd: DON'T rush this because you have an Inferno deadline or some stupid scrum team deadline , ty


AFTER READING THE ADDED POSTINGS FROM SOUNDWAVE AND YTTERBIUM IN #1 POST

I FULLY SUPPORT THIS IDEA Bear

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#364 - 2012-03-06 19:50:20 UTC
Giullare wrote:
This is the dumbest idea second only to when you started to sell pants and monocles.
I play since 2007 and crosstrained ALL subcapitals because every " x " months ccp nerf my favorite ship.
Now they still find out a way to **** up my ship hangar.
I don't care if noobs can fly a carrier with bs 4, when someone conquer a right you can't just take that right away.
Many people crosstrained different races and we deserve to fly what we skilled ( and payed with subscriction) in several years.
So change your mind because a shitstorm will hit this forum.


Still far too much discussion about skill queues instead of space ships.
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#365 - 2012-03-06 19:51:21 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
CCP Navigator is updating the devblog as we speak :)

he better has some good news and clarification for us.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
Asban
Caustic Fantasy League
#366 - 2012-03-06 19:51:49 UTC
The stated reason for splitting the desty/bc skills into racial versions is that it is bad to have 12 ships unlocked by a single skill. Could CCP elaborate a little more on why this is considered a bad thing? I'm on board for the other changes, but I'm just not seeing why this was a bad thing. Are BCs too strong, and the only way to justify keeping their power level that high is by making it harder to cross train into them? What's the rationale behind the split, because in all honesty, the pain doesn't seem worth the change if it's "just too confusing"
KanashiiKami
#367 - 2012-03-06 19:51:55 UTC  |  Edited by: KanashiiKami
looks like a dilema for CCP ...
for me ...id say ... CCP should

1) refund all skill points since this is a pretty massive rework (ccp chooses a fixed date, everyone gets his SP reset/refunded)
2) every BC/destro skill refund x4 amt for player self re-allocate (or which ever skill that has to be quadruple trained)

yes players seems to get upper hand, but ccp have the option to shrink amt of SP required ... but increase number of skills tiers to get to the top ...

and i tend to agree that the shortened path to supercaps doesnt sound like a good idea. so really ... we are all going to end up in null sitting in supercaps? LOL ... so who is this bloke in a hurry to grab supers in a hurry?

anyway ... full reallocate and over dose of SP refunds is wad i will look forward to ... it WILL take some time to re-digest the entire new ship "tree

AND ... the super break down of skill paths into its simplest element ... = possible hell for new players = ccp may be shooting itself

WUT ???
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#368 - 2012-03-06 19:52:23 UTC
bassie12bf1 wrote:
Would this make the t1 mining cruisers and frigates useful for pvp then?


BOOOOO!!!!!

To be honest I love the look of the gallente mining frigate... but it mines... wtf...

MAKE MINING FRIGATES MORE INDUSTRIAL LOOKING!!
Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#369 - 2012-03-06 19:52:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Akara Ito
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Isn't it our job to define roles for particular ships, not yours?


This is my problem with this blog

Skill lines sounds like an awfull euphenism for getting warrior ships, mage ships, shaman ships, etc

Limiting ships to a single role is bullshit
One of the great things about Eve is that you can fly every ship as you want
PvP in Eve is often about finding a fitting that suits your need and getting effects out of ships that people dont expect

And yeah, racial BC skills are... weird.
Actually I dont know why they are even usefull.
Right now the skill system is mostly tree based, it splits up more and more the higher you get
Whats the advantage of turning this into a single line system?
Its just annoying and a huge oversimplification.

Also Battlecruisers are currently one of the most usefull shipclasses.
Newbies can fly them quickly (if not good), while people with more SP can use progressively better fittings.
Racial skills would completely **** that and be a huge boot in the face for people with low sp chars.

Oh and BS 4 for caps is horrible, a shitload of people crossskill caps and I guess there will be no sp reimbursement for BSV .
You'd have to reimburse so much skills to get these things done, its pathetic.
RLCHANCE
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#370 - 2012-03-06 19:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: RLCHANCE
OK sounds good but that would make a lot of people so angry

My I dear Instead of that -
Frigate Level 4, To Train Destroyers
Destroyer Level 4, To train Cruisers Skill
Cruiser Level 4, To train Battle-Cruisers Skill
Battle-Cruiser Level 4, To train Battleships Skill
and so on.


Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smile
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#371 - 2012-03-06 19:52:38 UTC
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:
I'm glad CCP finally realized that there's a lot of hulls that are currently next to useless. I like the idea of giving each ship a place

I'm sure no one mourns the loss of the tier system.

However, they better not push each hull into a niche. Making a hull do something it's technically not supposed to in order to surprise your opponent is one of the best parts of Eve. So here's hoping they pull it off.

Like I said though, I'm worried they are painting themselves into just another corner trading tiers for roles. But when they start to release some stats we can make a judgement based on that instead of guesswork.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#372 - 2012-03-06 19:52:39 UTC
Not only do that to Battelcruisers and destroyers, but also to heavy assault, marauders, etc... Also don't forget to give us SP when you do it, so that we can turn into maximized single or cross-trained ship hulls.
Raivi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#373 - 2012-03-06 19:53:01 UTC
Holy ****.

There are a lot of good concepts in this blog, but you're talking about radically changing more than half the ships in eve, including many ships that people do use (if you're gonna do stuff like give Amarr a TD and drone BS). I have no idea if this is going to end in success or disaster.

Basically, I love what's been shared so far, but please please do everything possible to avoid messing this up. (That includes talking to the CSM in ways you apparently have not so far on this issue)
Mistredo
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#374 - 2012-03-06 19:53:13 UTC
anzelotte wrote:
oh.. and i just wanted to propose complete remove racial specific ships skills..
just frigate, destroyer, cruiser etc skills + one < racial > starship command skill (with 16x traning time) which replace "spaceship command" and "advanced spaceship command".
so to fly condor: you need "frigate level 2" and "caldari spaceship command level 1"
abaddon: "battleship level 3" and "amarr spaceship command level 3"
ragnarok: "titan level 1" and "minmatar spaceship command level 5"
something like that..



This is great idea and I would love to see that.
The Economist
Logically Consistent
#375 - 2012-03-06 19:53:13 UTC
Why not put all this time and effort into actually re-balancing those neglected ships and filling those tier holes which have been endlessly discussed for nigh on the last 8 years if that's what, in the end, this is all about?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#376 - 2012-03-06 19:53:49 UTC
Luba Cibre wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
CCP Navigator is updating the devblog as we speak :)

he better has some good news and clarification for us.


Likely it will boil down to...

"IF YOU CAN FLY IT NOW, YOU CAN FLY IT LATER."


Which, in essence, is all anyone is really concerned about.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#377 - 2012-03-06 19:53:53 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
The idea is fundamentally great, but like many people have pointed out, all of us who have made sure we are crosstrained extensively are going to be mighty pissed...

So, basically what would happen is overnight I would lose the ability to fly 3/4 of the BC and destroyers entirely and have to retrain, which lets face it is complete crap. Being able to jump literally into any T1 or t2 subcap is something I made sure I am capable of.


One more time for the stupid people:

CCP Soundwave wrote:

No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Alara IonStorm
#378 - 2012-03-06 19:54:20 UTC
bassie12bf1 wrote:
Would this make the t1 mining cruisers and frigates useful for pvp then?

I don't know about the Frigates but I really hope the T1 Logistics Cruisers actually becomes real T1 Logi.
Shangpo
Hyperian Command
Important Internet Spaceship League.
#379 - 2012-03-06 19:54:25 UTC
KanashiiKami wrote:
looks like a dilema for CCP ...
for me ...id say ... CCP should

1) refund all skill points since this is a pretty massive rework (ccp chooses a fixed date, everyone gets his SP reset/refunded)


anyway ... full reallocate and over dose of SP refunds is wad i will look forward to ... it WILL take some time to re-digest the entire new ship "tree"


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=899067#post899067

Yup, I said that too Idea
Vanir Waelcyrge
Enochian Key
#380 - 2012-03-06 19:54:44 UTC
Probably been suggested above, but here we go.

I beleive a better way to change the ship skills would be to ease crosstraining, but make ship line skills racial.

Create general frigate, crusier and battleship skills usable to fly all of their type (the same as destroyer and battrecruiser today).
Make all new specialist skills racial, and make them higher rank. Separe ship bonuses so that the more important/profilic of the bonus type on each ship is related the the racial skill of the ship. Only basic bonuses should be tied to the level of ship skills.

This would make people able to trying out more ships and faster too. But getting the important role bonuses would take more time and investment.

It would simplify the change. Keep the highest racial ship skill level you have and get the other reimbursed. Any reimbursed points could then be spent on the new ship line skills.

As a bonus;
if the ship line skills wasn't identical to all races we could get more flavor back into the empires. Make the empires differ more than the choice of colour schemes.

/Vanir