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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

First post First post
Author
YouShouldntEatIt
Bitter Vets Anonymous
#61 - 2012-03-06 18:19:09 UTC
lemme get this straight....... (I know this is still in the works but I'll treat this as what is in the devblog is going live right now)

1) I spent ~30 days training Battlecruiser 5 (thats $15-17 dollars btw). Now you want to split it up and make me train 4 seperate battlecruiser skills to fly ships I can already fly? The only way this is acceptable is if I get every sp reimbursed and the 4 racial battlecruiser skills take up NO MORE sp than the vanilla battlecruiser skill.

2) I think I've heard my fill of bitching about the proliferation of capitals, super and normal, in this game enough to think that the idea of reducing said requirement of racial battleship 5 from level 5 to 4 would imply the person behind that idea is either insane, or has a number of bot accounts needing capitals.

just checking to make sure i heard things right....
Anja Talis
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
#62 - 2012-03-06 18:19:15 UTC
The link on the Caldari progression image is broken.

(also, can you resize those images? I can't actually read them in a browser, because they are either too big, or too small!)
Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-03-06 18:19:36 UTC
WOW... GREAT NEWS!!!
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#64 - 2012-03-06 18:21:05 UTC
Anja Talis wrote:
The link on the Caldari progression image is broken.

(also, can you resize those images? I can't actually read them in a browser, because they are either too big, or too small!)


Yeah, and on the Minmatar one they got the Scimitar and Rapier mixed up.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#65 - 2012-03-06 18:21:35 UTC
Yay putting out devblogs so we have all our talking points in a row for fanfest.Twisted

Keep them coming so you will have answers for us when we storm the castle in 2 weeks.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Largo Coronet
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-03-06 18:21:56 UTC
If this means I have to add more training to get into ships I have already put a great deal of effort into training into, I would personally be supremely PO'd and I doubt I would be alone. Any plan that makes it harder to get into subcapital ships and easier to get into capitals & supercapitals IS A BAD PLAN. The biggest problem with the game is how it's becoming Supercaps Online and you want to increase that?


Have you been sniffing lava again? Last time you did that you came up with space pants. JUST SAY NO TO LAVA. And leave the racial BS V requirement for capitals.

This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

Someday, this signature may save my life.

Cronus Zontanos
Places and Stuff Inc.
#67 - 2012-03-06 18:22:12 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
DelBoy Trades wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.


A little extra? you're looking at atleast 8 times more.


We'll sit down and have a chat about it, but what we're looking to do is create a solid ship scheme, not take things away from people. You'll be reimbursed properly.


People need to stop freaking about the skill change and just read this. The devs realize how many skill points this could set people back, and should be able to reimburse properly. I'm sure there's someone on the team who's good enough at some math to figure out an algorithm to get everyone set straight on skills. Plus like they said nothing is set in stone.

Great Devbolg Ytterbium, really looking forward to how the changes end up working out.
Teron Radec
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
#68 - 2012-03-06 18:22:21 UTC
Also, my carrier pilot alt has Amarr and Caldari BS 5 for NO other reason that to fly the Archon and Chimera, if the requirements go down to 4 will I get 4-5 SP reimbursed?

Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#69 - 2012-03-06 18:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Zirse
An easy way to do it would be to put BC V people at racial BCs IV and BC IV people at racial BCs III etc.


Looking forward to the tiericide.
Szilardis
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#70 - 2012-03-06 18:22:47 UTC
Grideris wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



Is it possible to instead of refunding the SP, just give the skills instead? Because if you can do so, here is what I would do:


  • If a player has Racial Frigate III and Destroyers X - give player Recial Destroyer X for every race they have Racial Frigate III in
  • Ditto for Battlecruisers


I could support this.
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#71 - 2012-03-06 18:22:49 UTC
Changing skill requirements, Yes. Being able to train for, for instance, recons without having to train for covert ops first. That I can agree with.

Changing skill progression, NO. One of the appealing aspects of training for ships was that once I'd trained racial frigate and destroyers, I'd get access to ANOTHER race worth of destroyers, for free, once I trained up the racial frigate.

With these changes, you'll raise the bar for crosstraining further, to a point where it is even more daunting for new players to crosstrain, and makes it even more difficult for them to find useful roles.

Take a new PVPer, for instance. By training caldari and minmatar frigate, caldari and minmatar cruiser, plus battlecruiser, the player would have access to tackling frigates, t1 cruisers including ospreys, blackbirds, stabbers and ruptures, as well as two excellent and newbie friendly battlecruiser hulls, namely hurricanes and drakes. All this from a total of five skills.

With the changes, the same new player would now be forced to train eight skills, raising the bar for skilltraining by 75% and making it more difficult to find useful roles. The incentive to crosstrain would be largely eliminated, as it'd take almost as long to train for a single race's battlecruisers as two races under the current scheme.

Ship tiers: If ship tiers force you into balancing issues, you're looking at the problem in a completely wrong way. The ship tiers should not limit your balancing efforts. Don't make the mistake in thinking that a higher tier "must be better". That's not necessarily so. If anything, tiers should serve as a guideline for the general roles a certain group of ships have, for instance that all ships within a tier are designed as high DPS active tanking platforms, another tier being medium DPS buffer platforms etc, but not that they should be "better" than the previous tier.
drdxie
#72 - 2012-03-06 18:22:50 UTC
I do not like this change. I have recently trained my PVP toon to have BC5. I have trained almost all T2 medium guns so I could switch between race BC easily, hell, I even trained for T2 torps for use on the naga. This will now mean I will have to train each race to BC5... madness. I think those who already have this skill to 5 should be given all race BC to 5 and CCP can doesn't then have to reimburse SP... and everyone is happy.
Currently training across the board T2 large guns so I can T2 fit and use all the Tiers 3's.. this change is going to mess that all up.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277

Zircon Dasher
#73 - 2012-03-06 18:23:09 UTC
poasting in an epic whine thread.

I wonder how long it will take to hit 50 pages

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-03-06 18:23:29 UTC
While changes of this scope will always be controversial, and may involve a bit of inconvenience, the fact that CCP is tackling such issues illustrates how much focus and love FiS is getting.

We all can (and should) argue about the best way to refresh various areas of the game, but the most important thing to keep in mind is that CCP is putting a ton of effort into refreshing the game!

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery

Orion Guardian
#75 - 2012-03-06 18:24:16 UTC
I can understand where you come from, trying to get Destroyers and Battlecruisers to racial Variants.

BUT: I always thought them not to be "stepping stones" but intermediate classes. Which made totally sense having the skills not racial.

i.e "You know how to fly X Races Cruisers well, the Batlecruisers rely on the same technology and modules but you need to learn how to control larger ships thats why you need Battlecruiser skill as well"

I think it is not at all necessary to make the Battlecruiser skill racial! Having to Train BCs to IV until one can get into a BS or Destroyers to IV till you can get into a Cruiser will slow down alot of newbies trying to get into useful roles above "Tackler" in any fleet.

Blackbird for example was an easy to train for ship, it will be prolonged for about a week now (doesn't sound much, but if you are a newbie that is quite some time!) Especially as it stands today that Destroyers are very rarely used and considered "useless" by alot of people.

Please think it over, I do NOT think the skill line should be changed.


IF you disaggree and really want to change that, I am strongly for a Reimbursement Plan that will not make Crosstrainers like me train 3 additional Rank 6 Skills to V (2-3 Months?) to be able to fly all the ships again that I can now ;) I go with Liang here: If you have BC X give them Racial BC X*4 as reimbursement!

Unless you want to macke the Racial BC/Racial Destroyer skills all Rank 1 so the SP are enough to get them to the past level.


Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#76 - 2012-03-06 18:24:48 UTC
Zirse wrote:
An easy way to do it would be to put BC V people at racial BCs IV and BC IV people at racial BCs III etc.


Looking forward to the tiericide.


So nobody in the game can fly command ships for the next month. I propose we go with Soundwave's promise not to take things away from us. Roll

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Kozmic
Industrial Mining and Mayhem
Brave Collective
#77 - 2012-03-06 18:25:15 UTC
Cronus Zontanos wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:


We'll sit down and have a chat about it, but what we're looking to do is create a solid ship scheme, not take things away from people. You'll be reimbursed properly.


People need to stop freaking about the skill change and just read this. The devs realize how many skill points this could set people back, and should be able to reimburse properly. I'm sure there's someone on the team who's good enough at some math to figure out an algorithm to get everyone set straight on skills. Plus like they said nothing is set in stone.

Great Devbolg Ytterbium, really looking forward to how the changes end up working out.


Yes - cause God knows CCP never promised anything it didn't follow through. Enjoing walking around your establishments talking to other players in sov-iterated 0.0 with fixed supercaps, are you?
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#78 - 2012-03-06 18:25:33 UTC
I have just read the most important dev blog in eve's history.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#79 - 2012-03-06 18:25:50 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Zirse wrote:
An easy way to do it would be to put BC V people at racial BCs IV and BC IV people at racial BCs III etc.


Looking forward to the tiericide.


So nobody in the game can fly command ships for the next month. I propose we go with Soundwave's promise not to take things away from us. Roll

-Liang


I too, support Soundwaves ideas.
Poss Ible
User Disconnected
#80 - 2012-03-06 18:26:02 UTC
I think this revamp into classes is a really good idea and I hope you can do it reasonably well!

Goodluck!