These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

First post First post
Author
Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#101 - 2012-03-06 18:30:53 UTC
I have to say, what the hell...

What are the ranks of these skills going to be?

I currently fly 3 races of Command Ships on a regular basis, and all 4 races of battlecruiser. I have alts that fly all 4 in both command ships and battlecruisers. Am I going to be forced to choose one, then train 3 more rank 6 skills from 0 to 5 before I can get back to where I was already?

Oh, and if nobody's said it yet, removing the requirement for Battleship 5 to get into capital ships is a horrible idea.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Dinta Zembo
Tea. Earl Grey. Cold.
#102 - 2012-03-06 18:30:58 UTC
Dasrufken wrote:
Szilardis wrote:
Grideris wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



Is it possible to instead of refunding the SP, just give the skills instead? Because if you can do so, here is what I would do:


  • If a player has Racial Frigate III and Destroyers X - give player Recial Destroyer X for every race they have Racial Frigate III in
  • Ditto for Battlecruisers


I could support this.

seconded


'thirded'? Roll
AetomHaert Mother
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-03-06 18:31:48 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



Then you should fully realize that this is not an appealing way of balancing skill training. I could care less about the reimbursement, I do not want to train 90 more days to have an awesome oracle, awesome talos/myrm and awesome cane.

As a bitter vet who has payed you lots of money over 2 accounts over 5 years and has cross trained almost every ship class, I just saw a little roid rage red. Maybe I am over reacting, but thats $40 worth of wasted training time.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#104 - 2012-03-06 18:32:24 UTC
CCP please fix your images they crash the dev blog pages as the browsers seem to load them at full size.


Anyway.....

First, I dont want to have to train 5 different bc's to 5 again so i can fly my command ships, especially when i own one from each race. Doing so just screws over the vets who trained all this stuff to 5. So you really need to think long and hard about how you are going to gives us all skill points so that they are all trained to 5.

Next - the charts make it look like capitals have a lower barrier of entry. BAD! BAD CCP! no cookies for you. If anything capitals need a steeper barrier of entry.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2012-03-06 18:33:17 UTC
Me gusta.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2012-03-06 18:34:14 UTC
I'm flying already all BC, BS from 3 faction and all hacs regulary. It would be awful to start training again and to me a reason not to play eve.
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#107 - 2012-03-06 18:34:36 UTC
Intrigued by the idea, worried about the implementation. All the more reason to vote for someone who actually flies these ships for CSM 7

(I fly all these ships~)

~

YouShouldntEatIt
Bitter Vets Anonymous
#108 - 2012-03-06 18:34:38 UTC
Pallidum Treponema wrote:
Changing skill requirements, Yes. Being able to train for, for instance, recons without having to train for covert ops first. That I can agree with.


The only thing about this that doesn't make sense to me is to fly a battlecruiser (essentially a bigger cruiser) requires the cruiser skill. so why shouldn't a recon (essentially a bigger covert op) require covert op skills?

Of course, this is just how I view the ship progression in eve. Maybe it's because I grew up with the current system >.>
Neddy Fox
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#109 - 2012-03-06 18:34:48 UTC
Having command ship 5 and 4 jumpclones with mindlinks, flying all 4 command ships regularly I hope this won't bite back if implemented wrong.

I will not train 4 times BC5 and CS5 unless I get somehow all SP's for all 4 races reimbursed so I don't lose any capability.
Cannonball1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#110 - 2012-03-06 18:35:04 UTC
Any general skillbooks that you make racial (i.e., Destroyer, Battlecruiser, etc.) had better be refunded at 4 times the skillpoints so that current pilots can immediately train the racial equivalent of each ship to previous levels. Failure to do so will create severe disruptions for 0.0 pilots who fly different races of such ships. Failure to do so would also be unfair to pilots who trained those skills to level V expressly because they were so versatile.
Shin Dari
Covert Brigade
#111 - 2012-03-06 18:35:17 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



It goes far beyond simply unappealing. It is simply not practical. We've got dozens of battlecruisers in the wormhole we live in and potentially nobody would even be able to fly them for months. The best solution is not to reimburse BC/Destroyer SP but to give everyone the racial skills at the level they have them trained when the books are seeded.

-Liang

There is a problem with that, I and many others don't want the extra skill points. I might go with that option if CCP would also allow us to trim skills away so that we don't get too many skill points.
Arduemont
The State of War.
#112 - 2012-03-06 18:35:22 UTC
This is going to be controversial.

First, I will say that the proposed changes sound really great. The more I think about it the better it feels like it will be. Taking away tiers is a very good idea. You'l have to bear in mind the mineral composition of each ship because if you make something that was a very low tier really really good, then no one will buy anything else, because with a lower mineral composition it will cost less to buy.

Im sure I dont have to say this, but CCP is going to need to be very very careful with the skills. If you stop people from being able to fly ships that they can already fly (and probably love to play), then your going to have an uprising. In the same way, if you make it so people who have spent a great deal of time training for optimal use of a certain ship are now crap with it, you'l get the same effect.

Long and Short of it; Like the sound of the changes to ships, but be very very careful when playing with people's skills. What?

o7

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Jax Mones
State War Academy
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-03-06 18:35:33 UTC
this is the stupidest idea i've EVER heard..

Que the riots and usubs.. how the **** did this even get sugested?
Yakumo Smith
No End To Infinity
#114 - 2012-03-06 18:35:55 UTC
In eve, decisions you make with skills are supposed to carry with you.

I have made a point of not training Yak into Capital ships. I have instead cross trained into all subcap combat ships. This was a decision I took when I first started playing 95m SP ago.

This change feels like I am being punished for actually planning ahead with my character. While I agree a simplified tree would be nice, but it doesn't change the fact I have a potentially large number of skills I need to train in order to be able to use the current ships I do at the efficiency level I do. (so no I would not consider giving me the racial skills to IV + all the SP from BC V as a "win")

There is a growing trend of these mini respecs, disguised in different clothes, but respecs none the less.

Learning skills - was a respec
Social skills - respec
This change - respec


I think it's time you just bite the bullet and push all changes of this type that could appear in the future in one go and give a respec rather than giving everyone a respec over time in drips and drabs.



Catho Sharn
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#115 - 2012-03-06 18:36:39 UTC
Forcing more roadblocks into the ship skills tree is a terrible idea.
Anja Talis
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
#116 - 2012-03-06 18:36:48 UTC
YouShouldntEatIt wrote:

The only thing about this that doesn't make sense to me is to fly a battlecruiser (essentially a bigger cruiser) requires the cruiser skill. so why shouldn't a recon (essentially a bigger covert op) require covert op skills?

Of course, this is just how I view the ship progression in eve. Maybe it's because I grew up with the current system >.>


Yeah. Ignoring the class size tiers, the current system did make sense. Doesn't mean it should stay that way though.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#117 - 2012-03-06 18:37:15 UTC
first thing i thought after reading about the skill changes was "all those guys in null sec will be fighting tooth and nail in frigates cause barely anyone will have trained destroyers" and on another note of that at least add another 1 or 2 destroyers to actualy make that class worth even moving into after frigate.
Milamar Tokugawa
10.K
#118 - 2012-03-06 18:37:31 UTC
No. Just no.

Carriers with battleship 4?

No.
Tore Vest
#119 - 2012-03-06 18:37:39 UTC
NICE... !!!
All my plans and goals for me and my alts out of the window... Roll

This game is getting dumber.. Bear

No troll.

SamGromoff
Goonbine Honnete Ober Advancer Mercantiles
Goonswarm Federation
#120 - 2012-03-06 18:38:04 UTC  |  Edited by: SamGromoff
Kozmic wrote:
For those of us with all racial sub-caps, that is a lot of re-training. SP reimbursment should take that into account - if I had BC V and have race X BS V, then I should get race X BC V.

Edit: also, :ccp:


This or some version of this {BC V + Cruiser V} should be 100% the way to go.

However, I understand that CCP may balk at giving everyone an effective 8 million free SP (i.e. I train BC V and the effective Cruiser V now -> I get all four racial skills down the road). So what I suggest is a further rebalancing of the rank of the effective ship skills.

Currently, BCs are a Rank 6 skill (1.56m SP) and cruisers are Rank 5 (1.28m). To fly all cruisers and BCs perfectly thus costs 6.68m SP. But what if we lower the requirements?

Cruisers = Rank 3 (768k SP)
Racial BCs = Rank 4 (1024k SP)

To fly everything perfectly would now take just over 7m SP, meaning the difference is just over a week of training. Of course, CCP could always credit us that little bit extra if they like Bear

Under this system, the change would take place as follows:

1)Refund everyone the difference for every cruiser skill. Your old Amarr Cruiser V skill would change to Rank 3 and you'd get 512k free SP in the bargain;

2)Delete the old BC skill; your BC V is worth 1.56m free SP;

3)Implement the new racial BC skills at 1024k each.

Example: I currently have Amarr Cruiser V, Caldari Cruiser V and BC IV. The change gives me 1m free SP from the lowered rank of the cruisers + 271k SP from the deleted BC skill. I could then spend 1.024m SP on a single Racial BC V and have 271k left over, spend 450k SP on two BC IVs and have about 800k left over, or go do something else - it's my call.

Most people would be slightly better off than they are now while heavy crosstrainers would be slightly worse off, but no one would be badly nerfed like many cruiser specialists would be under the current proposal.

Destroyer specialists are a little tougher because frigates are Rank 1 and can't be lowered further, but not hugely so. If CCP refunds the destroyer skill at rank 2, then makes the new racial destroyer skill rank 1, 4 race crosstrainers would be out 3 weeks of training time, which isn't horrific. Ideally, CCP would refund the existing destroyer skill as if it were rank 3, saving us a bit of pain, but I'd be willing to live without that.

--

Under this plan, the most free SP anyone could get is just over 4 million. These players would then have to retrain about 8m skillpoints' worth of ships - again, bad but not horrific. Anyone that specialized in 1 or 2 races, though, would actually be better off.

The price would be lowering the time it takes to fly a t1 cruiser. I submit that this is not a huge loss for Eve Online.

please upvote if you like this, tia