These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
#81 - 2012-03-06 18:26:41 UTC
Very much in favor of these proposed changes.

Could you fix the link to the Gallente ship tree ... seems to be the only one with a broken link.

Or is this just another slight aimed at the Gallente? lol

Nothing clever at this time.
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#82 - 2012-03-06 18:27:00 UTC
Kozmic wrote:
Cronus Zontanos wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:


We'll sit down and have a chat about it, but what we're looking to do is create a solid ship scheme, not take things away from people. You'll be reimbursed properly.


People need to stop freaking about the skill change and just read this. The devs realize how many skill points this could set people back, and should be able to reimburse properly. I'm sure there's someone on the team who's good enough at some math to figure out an algorithm to get everyone set straight on skills. Plus like they said nothing is set in stone.

Great Devbolg Ytterbium, really looking forward to how the changes end up working out.


Yes - cause God knows CCP never promised anything it didn't follow through. Enjoing walking around your establishments talking to other players in sov-iterated 0.0 with fixed supercaps, are you?


Heaven forbid a game company talk about what they want to do with their game in the future.
Erim Solfara
House of Solfara
#83 - 2012-03-06 18:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Erim Solfara
How about reimbursing us for our battlecruisers and destroyers skills, and then making the racial skills a sufficiently low rank that 'Battlecruisers 5' gets us Amarr Battlecruiser, Minmatar Battlecruiser, Caldari Battlecruiser, and Gallente Battlecruiser all at 5?

Battlecruisers is a rank 6 skill, could make the new racial bruisers skills rank 1? It somewhat fits with lore too, the point is a prophecy requires mostly the same skills a maller does, it's just a little bit bigger. Why shouldn't the bruiser skill be a much lower rank?

Destroyers could only drop to rank 1, but as it requires frigate which is rank 2 they're still not ludicrously simple to get into?


For what it's worth, I've wanted the tier system to die in a fire for YEARS now, great change, looking forward to it!
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#84 - 2012-03-06 18:27:06 UTC
Ahahahahahaha tears.

Folks, you don't deserve free SP because the game is changing. If they are going to reimburse enough that you get all four skills worth of SP when Inferno releases... every intelligent person should be training up additional Battlecruiser and Destroyer skills right now, so it'll multiply later.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net
Orion Guardian
#85 - 2012-03-06 18:27:26 UTC
PS: Especially for people like me with long standing Skill plans, I am going for INT/MEM nowadays and the plan is due to end in 450 days....if Inferno were to force me to get into PEr/will just to get back into my ships it would make me lose even more than just TIME!
Temmu Guerra
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2012-03-06 18:27:32 UTC
Everyone just needs to take a deep breath and stop panicking. We have already been told that a proper reimbursement plan will be put in place and I have no doubt that this will be brought up with CSM8..



CCP keep up the good work though. Really liking what you are doing to the game so far.
Snus Mumriken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-03-06 18:27:55 UTC
Ytterbium, please insert thumbnails into the news article and only link to the huge images.

I like the changes, but something confuses me:
In this image the T2 specialization ship skills only require their underlying T1 ship class (AF requires frigate, HAC requires cruiser ...), but when I look at new Amarr ship tree there seem to be requirements between Assault Ships and Heavy Assault Ships.

So my question is now: Which of both is true? I hope that the Amarr ship tree is just older than the changed skill tree and not reflecting the removed requirements. Because, as mentioned in the dev blog, T2 ships are specializing, so there should be no requirements between AF and HAC, or HAC and Command ship.


Oh, and because I can't resist:
Y U REMOVE TEARS? Big smile
(removal of tiers is fine though)

I'm on Twitter.
Lt Vanzi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-03-06 18:28:02 UTC
Racial skills are the single most boring part of the skillpoint system in EVE, introducing even more of them by simply splitting one skill into four makes no sense whatsoever, you should be going the exactly opposite direction. If you want to introduce new skills then that's fine, but at least make them somewhat unique instead of being generic version of a single skill.
Kozmic
State War Academy
Caldari State
#89 - 2012-03-06 18:28:44 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Kozmic wrote:

Yes - cause God knows CCP never promised anything it didn't follow through. Enjoing walking around your establishments talking to other players in sov-iterated 0.0 with fixed supercaps, are you?


Heaven forbid a game company talk about what they want to do with their game in the future.


Sorry for being a bit bitter, but it will take more than one half-decent expansion to get back into my good graces.
Dasrufken
Nova Ardour
#90 - 2012-03-06 18:28:53 UTC
Szilardis wrote:
Grideris wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



Is it possible to instead of refunding the SP, just give the skills instead? Because if you can do so, here is what I would do:


  • If a player has Racial Frigate III and Destroyers X - give player Recial Destroyer X for every race they have Racial Frigate III in
  • Ditto for Battlecruisers


I could support this.

seconded
Iniquita
Perkone
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-03-06 18:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Iniquita
I feel this makes sense going forward but what needs to happen for existing players is that if you have requisite skills for Destroyers or Battlecruisers that you get enough SP to ensure you can still fly all those specific racial ships at the same level.

So if I have Amarr, Minmatar, Caldari Cruiser skills and BC5, I should get enough SP to ensure under the new system I can get BC5 in Caldari, Minmatar, And Amarr.

The same holds true for destroyers.

That said I am extremely excited about the possibility of racial battleship class ewar platforms besides the scorpion.
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2012-03-06 18:29:03 UTC
If you currently have all the prerequsits you get the new skills to the same level?


So if I have 4 cruisers and BC V, then I get 4 cruisers and 4 ratial BCs to V.

I understand it makes sense going forward, but current players will take ~3-4 months to retrain all these new skills.
fab24
Tax Fraud The Return Corporation
#93 - 2012-03-06 18:29:08 UTC
WTF? I spent 6 years training skills that you're going to remove? Fail level : CCP
Elaron
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#94 - 2012-03-06 18:29:12 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

It's more than "not appealing", it's downright repugnant.

In my opinion, a better solution would be to give people who already have Destroyers and Battlecruisers trained the same level in all of the racial versions of the skills for which they have the prerequisites. Thus if someone has Destroyers V trained, and has Minmatar and Amarr Frigate skills trained to IV, they should get Minmatar Destroyers V and Amarr Destroyers V.

Another possibility would be to keep the generic skills but rejig the Cruiser and Battleship skills to add Destroyer and Battlecruiser prerequistes as appropriate, and update the racial skill requirements on Destroyers and Battlecruisers to reflect the new progression.

Examples:

  • Amarr Battleship skill would have the prerequisites Amarr Cruiser IV, Battlecruisers IV.
  • The Prophecy would now require Amarr Cruiser IV to fly.

Finally, if you could rejig the skill system to allow for "either / or" prerequisites for skills then you could make it so that the generic Destroyers skill could be trained with any of the four racial frigate skills trained to IV. This might be more work and risk than you're able to have with the project though.
Temmu Guerra
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2012-03-06 18:29:29 UTC
Orion GUardian wrote:
PS: Especially for people like me with long standing Skill plans, I am going for INT/MEM nowadays and the plan is due to end in 450 days....if Inferno were to force me to get into PEr/will just to get back into my ships it would make me lose even more than just TIME!



You know you could train out of what your currently mapped to... I promise it wont kill you...
Cass Lie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#96 - 2012-03-06 18:29:32 UTC
Awesome blog. The idea of removing the tier system is beyond great, the streamlining of ship requirements also makes sense. The devil is, as always, in the details. Hope you can come up with something that won't **** off too many players (me included). Good luck.
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#97 - 2012-03-06 18:30:28 UTC
If this gets done properly, well done, outstanding stuff.

If it doesn't......Shocked

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
SpaceSquirrels
#98 - 2012-03-06 18:30:34 UTC
WOOOOOOHHHOOO

Though I'm now pissed that I trained all those prereq ships...And now might hold off on others.

But I love getting rid of tiers and emphasize role warfare to mix things up, and create new options.
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#99 - 2012-03-06 18:30:47 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Eugh.... Just what we always wanted... having to spend even *MORE* time cross-training to experience the different races and play styles of EvE.

Battlecruisers is one of the best skills there is for a very good reason; you spend a month training it and then it gives you lots of flexibility. You get it, and it opens lots of doors... and variety is what people enjoy.

If you do this, then a lot of people, myself included, are going to be pissed. It's introducing more drag just for the hell of it.

Three additional BC skills to four at the same is what? Another two weeks or something? Throw in one or two races to level five and it's about two more months of subscription time for CCP.

Get yer tinfoils on!
Anja Talis
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
#100 - 2012-03-06 18:30:48 UTC
Orion GUardian wrote:
I
Blackbird for example was an easy to train for ship, it will be prolonged for about a week now (doesn't sound much, but if you are a newbie that is quite some time!) Especially as it stands today that Destroyers are very rarely used and considered "useless" by alot of people.


The points of this sort of change is so that CCP can rebalance easier and make sure ships like destroyers have useful roles.

Look forwards, not backwards :D