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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

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CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2012-03-06 18:13:37 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



it not just not appealing its crazy.

pre patch i can fly all cs's and all dic's. post patch im ******. i either pick to fly a claymore or damnation or a vulture (eos is **** anyhow) and then im screwed for the next 80 odd days retraining for ships i could already fly.

you either reduce the ranks of the destroyer and bc skills so reimbursed skill points from the old cover all 4 races, or you just give people all 4 races.




We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.
Natalie Cerulean
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-03-06 18:13:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Natalie Cerulean
I don't like this at all personally. I have two characters one is more or less pure caldari, and the the other is pure amarr (currently training her for capital ships).

While it "makes more sense" until I can see a way to fix it so that you are screwing everyone who has already trained their racial skills up I 100% disapprove.

I was completely looking forward to knowing that those race specific tech 2 skills I trained wouldn't need to be retrained (I can currently fly all subcapital t2 ships on this one).

If you want to fix a broken tree, work on missiles to make it more in line with the way gunnery is set up e.g. frigate sized generic, with rocket, and standard spec as opposed to making them separate skill lines.
Atrum Veneficus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2012-03-06 18:13:38 UTC
As a player who already has all frigates, cruisers, and battleships to 5, I find it an incredibly **** move to remove a large portion of my current ship options because you see a new shiny in the corner.

Replace the generic skill with all four racial specific skills at the same level. Battlecruiser V was an incredibly annoying grind and I find it disgusting you want to chop it into to four pieces - unless the total SP requirement of the 4 racial battlecruisers to V equals the SP refunded from battlecruiser V.
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#44 - 2012-03-06 18:14:27 UTC
Do devs just get paid to sit around smoking crack all day? This is the worst thing I've ever seen. Those of us with BC 5 get the pleasure of training it 3 more times. **** that.

Damn nature, you scary!
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-03-06 18:15:32 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
This is AWESOME, but I'm a bit miffed that those of us who have extensively crosstrained are going to be stuck re-training up 3 Destroyer and 3 BC skills.

-Liang




this, not happy about having to train 6 skills to fly ships i can already fly


I can't emphasize this enough. I'm now using battlecruisers from 3 races, so you're telling me I have to shelve 2/3 of them for weeks and retraining them to my current skill level will take months of extra training. I like tiericide as much as the next person and think it is a worthy goal, but this is a really nasty kick in the nutsack and makes crosstraining a bit less appealing prospect in general.
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#46 - 2012-03-06 18:15:49 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.


A little extra? you're looking at atleast 8 times more.

Damn nature, you scary!
Alara IonStorm
#47 - 2012-03-06 18:15:55 UTC
One suggestion. You have 3 types of Combat Ships, 1 Industrial and 1 Support Line.

Quote:
Support vessels: mainly focused on assisting a friendly force, or disrupting an enemy fleet. Have average damage, poor defense, average mobility. Electronic warfare is the prime illustration of this line. EVE examples: Scorpion, Blackbird, Celestis, Arbitrator.

Here is your example of Support.

It says nothing to differentiate between Ships that give positives and ones that give negative support in the Ship Lines despite having 3 Combat Lines.

Perhaps you should have Positive Support (Logi, Tracking Links) and Negative Support (ECM, Target Painters) as separate categories.
Rei Kwon
Commonwealth Enterprises
#48 - 2012-03-06 18:16:14 UTC
Palovana wrote:
Those are some HUGE-ASS images, and trust me, I know huge ass.


I'm sayin'! C'mon CCP, I know it's just a dev blog but those images brought Chrome to a crawl!

Vector graphics, please!
Swearte Widfarend
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#49 - 2012-03-06 18:16:26 UTC
So to clarify your devblog.

If you currently have in-game assets in the nature of multiple, racial destroyers, interdictors, battlecruisers, or command ships, you are totally screwed.

Because when this is done, you have to choose which one racial ship you want access to now, and then plan to train (up to) an additional 6,144,000 skill points at x2 and x6 to unlock ships you may already own.

Which translates (based on an available remap to per/wil) about FIVE MONTHS of retraining.

Here are my tears. Feast upon them.

Carebears in hisec, rejoice. This change cripples nullsec players in ways you will never experience.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#50 - 2012-03-06 18:16:44 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



it not just not appealing its crazy.

pre patch i can fly all cs's and all dic's. post patch im ******. i either pick to fly a claymore or damnation or a vulture (eos is **** anyhow) and then im screwed for the next 80 odd days retraining for ships i could already fly.

you either reduce the ranks of the destroyer and bc skills so reimbursed skill points from the old cover all 4 races, or you just give people all 4 races.




We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.


Good enough for me. I'll link this post in post #2 to help quell the rising panic. <3

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jax Slizard
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-03-06 18:17:03 UTC
Really, there are only two fair ways to do the skill thing, both have been suggested before.

1. Just give everyone who has Destroyers and Battlecruisers trained already all four skills at the level they are now. It hurts CCP because its free SP, but it screws players much much harder to not be able to fly 10+ ships they could FOR SEVERAL MONTHS.

2. If you REALLY change the system, just give everyone every single SP in the entire Ship Command tree back, and let us pick what we want to be able to fly.
Tanaka Aiko
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-03-06 18:17:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Aiko
i like the big changes on the ships roles and stats, and the end of the tier system, but as lots of people i'm pretty worried about the skills i'll be missin
you should at least offer free SP for a second race for people having destro/bc

well anyway, at least that's finally a blog with lots of interesting content that you delive

Quote:
you either reduce the ranks of the destroyer and bc skills so reimbursed skill points from the old cover all 4 races

that's an interesting solution ; 4 skills not 1, but asking for the same SP overrall.

but seems you point is to review the time needed to fly the differents ships, so giving free SP me be a better choice giving your vision
Kenerian
Tri-gun
#53 - 2012-03-06 18:17:31 UTC
You spelled Spear incorrectly (when discussing Direct combat battleships you said spar instead of spear in spear heading.).




Love, Ken.
Dinta Zembo
Tea. Earl Grey. Cold.
#54 - 2012-03-06 18:17:33 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
You're gonna have to train 4 skills to lvl 5 and we're only gonna give you the SP's to train 1 trololol



Go away
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2012-03-06 18:17:38 UTC
DelBoy Trades wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.


A little extra? you're looking at atleast 8 times more.


We'll sit down and have a chat about it, but what we're looking to do is create a solid ship scheme, not take things away from people. You'll be reimbursed properly.
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-03-06 18:17:42 UTC
Good idea,

But no Amarr destroyers

Or Caldari BC. Go away with that mess.
Teron Radec
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
#57 - 2012-03-06 18:17:44 UTC
If anything's going to make you wonder whether you can be arsed with the game anymore it's this.
Kozmic
State War Academy
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-03-06 18:18:17 UTC
Tsubutai wrote:
Should also add that I'm a bit sceptical about the idea of rebalancing ships to fit specific roles - while it sounds intriguing, I think it could also lead to excessive pigeonholing..


I'd rather have pigeonholing than uselessness - which is what most EVE ships are today.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#59 - 2012-03-06 18:18:41 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



it not just not appealing its crazy.

pre patch i can fly all cs's and all dic's. post patch im ******. i either pick to fly a claymore or damnation or a vulture (eos is **** anyhow) and then im screwed for the next 80 odd days retraining for ships i could already fly.

you either reduce the ranks of the destroyer and bc skills so reimbursed skill points from the old cover all 4 races, or you just give people all 4 races.




We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.


cool. im really hoping that on this patch day i dont get crippled on ship choice. reason i trained all 4 race cs's and dic is so i could fly them all, having to train for them again would really be........ anoying is prob the least angry would i could use for that feeling

OMG when can i get a pic here
Dead Soldier
R.T.F.M
#60 - 2012-03-06 18:18:42 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.



Don't the forget gunnery/missile/Shield/armor skills. I have all those skills just because i can fly multiple race's. So this is not only related to the ship commands skills but all lot of others as well.