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[Proposal] Instanced PvE for Christmas at the cost of avatar detail level
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Jerec Bratt
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-02-28 19:23:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerec Bratt
It was not me saying things about themepark or planning an instance only feature.

Well, I'd be a fool to wish for WiS to have the ultra great graphics Incarna now has, only with better animation, and the instanced interiors to be a battlegrounds for housands of players to battle for their corporations accompanied by droids and mercenaries.

But I am no fool. I see CCP struggling with the same issues in WiS for 6 years now and it's obvious they can't pull the dream version off anytime soon. So my solution is - find something that while pushing the idea forward is not a no-feature (like CQ was) and brings a lot of fun into the game while is somewhat cost-effectife (including money, time and employees).

What I decribed is (probably) a place when we can get really fast, and I imagine that as soon as it's possible CCP would iterate on the feature to make it as PVP as it should be. First things first tough.

Lower graphic requirements for Incarna would mean you could exit the CQ, but then what? Walking around, typing /dance? I'd rather shoot some frakking mercenaries and robots instead with the hope to shoot at other players in the future.
Chiggy W
Hard-Luck Industries
#22 - 2012-02-28 19:26:39 UTC
Jerec Bratt wrote:
I'd rather shoot some frakking mercenaries and robots instead with the hope to shoot at other players in the future.


Well, I guess it would put a new spin on fighting the bot's in Jita Lol
Serene Repose
#23 - 2012-02-28 19:26:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Jerec Bratt wrote:
It's much easier to implement a non-PVP feature (see Incarna) then a full blown feature.

I guess you miss the point entirely. It's easy to sit back in the digital world and imagine how someone else should use their time, money, manpower and resources. There seems to be a gang of "players" who think all they need to do is propose their (always) well-considered and watertight ideas, and someone else is automatically obliged to make the investment which amounts to thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars...or in the case of Iceland, goat's teeth. (Be that as it may.)

On a finer point, as is always the case with such dreamers who couldn't possibly find the wherewithal to develop a game themselves, your idea is to turn one game into another game. Make a list of your favorite things in your "other" favorite game, implement in this game, PRESTO, the perfect game...to you. One never finds in proposals such as yours, "Hey, I've got an extra $250,000. How about taking that and..." It's as though you think your whim is cause enough to spend that ton of money...just 'cause your idea is so...smart.

I'm posting this in the hopes that others like you will read it and let it sink into your brains that just because you think of something it doesn't oblige others to do it. However, if you've got the financing...it's a small task (corporatese here) for YOU to muster the manpower, facilities and make it happen. We're not holding our collective breath over that, though.

"You know what you can do with all your time, manpower and money? Take a long walk off a short pier."
Do you like that proposal?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#24 - 2012-02-28 19:31:24 UTC
Jerec Bratt wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
Clearly, crappy half-finished, pve incarna trash is just what we need to keep eve from dying! Your genius has saved everyone!

It's a half-feature, beacause there's no Player-player interaction involved.


It's a "half-feature" because CCP didn't fully know what they actually wanted to accomplish in terms of engaging, meaningful game-play, and because they coded themselves down some dead ends more then once and had to start over. Then the money and patience of the subscribers dried-up soon after.

Next, I suppose you will be advocating "arena-based PVP" like some of the other people around here that seem to want to turn EVE into WoW.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Jerec Bratt
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-02-28 19:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerec Bratt
I really do not want to force anyone to using their money in the way they would noy want to do that.

Reality is, there is a devblog which suggests that plans on any type of WiS were all thrown away and they are now starting to figure out what exactly needs to be done.

I think, that creating a medium graphics-quality PVE-only gameplay loaded with action and taking place in the interiors of EVE stations would be a win-win: presenting the world, easy access for new players, another feature for those who eagerly await one, lots of exploding robots and dying mercenaries, new type of interesting missions and the perspective of using the same framework for player-player interactions, be it coop or PvP .

Also, I am not explicitly forbidding PvP anywhere, so please stop trolling. PvP in WiS is a must. I am prioritizing PvE, beacause, like it or not, it would bring some new subscribers to EVE, and that would increase CCPs income and thus allowed them to finance the development of Incarna PVP iterations.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#26 - 2012-02-28 19:41:25 UTC
Jerec Bratt wrote:
I really do not want to force anyone to using their money in the way they would noy want to do that.

Reality is, there is a devblog which suggests that plans on any type of WiS were all thrown away and they are now starting to figure out what exactly needs to be done.

I think, that creating a medium graphics-quality PVE-only gameplay loaded with action and taking place in the interiors of EVE stations would be a win-win: presenting the world, easy access for new players, another feature for those who eagerly await one, lots of exploding robots and dying mercenaries, new type of interesting missions and the perspective of using the same framework for player-player interactions, be it coop or PvE .


Only if the "payscale" doesn't exceed a few dozen ISK.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#27 - 2012-02-28 19:50:34 UTC
Jerec Bratt wrote:
It was not me saying things about themepark or planning an instance only feature.

Well, I'd wish for WiS to have the ultra great graphics Incarna now has, only with better animation, and the instanced interiors to be a battlegrounds for housands of players to battle for their corporations accompanied by droids and mercenaries.




They've been working on this, it's called Dust.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Jerec Bratt
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-02-28 20:56:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerec Bratt
the mission payscale is related to the challenge the mission poses. I assume that kind of balance between the rewards and the risks taken would be in place here as well.

Quote:
They've been working on this, it's called Dust.


It is true that CCp is developing a game called DUST514 that is a battleground for thousands of players. The only problem is it does not take place in station interiors nor can you play on any PC.

Quote:
It's a "half-feature" because CCP didn't fully know what they actually wanted to accomplish in terms of engaging, meaningful game-play, and because they coded themselves down some dead ends more then once and had to start over. Then the money and patience of the subscribers dried-up soon after.

Next, I suppose you will be advocating "arena-based PVP" like some of the other people around here that seem to want to turn EVE into WoW.


I do not want to turn EVE into WoW. But from a technical standpoint I am sure that there will never be a truly sandbox avatar environment in EVE - CCP will not handmake every station in every system for players to walk them. CQ are already instanced, and will only allow players you invite in. Noone will never storm you CQ and steal your stuff from it, because it is an instance. So station interiors will be limited, and you will only have so much access to station's interiors - your instanced CQ, an instance of an establishment and a common area to walk in, most probably large enough to not see he whole crowd of avatars (!boiling motherboards)

Yes, CCP created content with only a shade of true purpose behind the workload, and it came out mostly useless to the players. But their intent to create a half-feature remains. They went from massive expansions to iterating, which means they put in unpolished stuff in most of the time and only tweak it after 'battletesting' on TQ.

My idea caters to that - what better test to the battling system would there be then to let players fight bots for a year and/or a half, before releasing a PVP version with higher resolution models.

My call is, that you can't achieve a groundbraking success with an avatar based MMO without combat in it. If they want to put this in the game fast, it'll be PVE only, with limited number of instances. but it'll generate enough newcomers an income to go forward, and that is what we all want for EVE - to flourish.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#29 - 2012-02-28 21:00:09 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Tagera wrote:
Serge Bastana wrote:
Tagera wrote:
If I wanted to play a game with crappy, pointless sci-fi based pve involving avatars. I would go play this game some idiots made called star trek online. It's basically what you described in your first post OP.


It's also F2P now since nobody really seems to want to pay for it



Shows you how good the game is. I still refuse to soil my computer with it.



even if you wanted to, I'm still pretty sure Aura wouldn't let you install it.Blink


A friend of mine, who is a big Trek fan, played it in beta. He only lasted a few weeks before he'd reached max level in it and was bored stupid, he was soon back to eve with a vengeance.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Lt Angus
Goat Herders
#30 - 2012-02-28 21:12:30 UTC
Serge Bastana wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Tagera wrote:
Serge Bastana wrote:
Tagera wrote:
If I wanted to play a game with crappy, pointless sci-fi based pve involving avatars. I would go play this game some idiots made called star trek online. It's basically what you described in your first post OP.


It's also F2P now since nobody really seems to want to pay for it



Shows you how good the game is. I still refuse to soil my computer with it.



even if you wanted to, I'm still pretty sure Aura wouldn't let you install it.Blink


A friend of mine, who is a big Trek fan, played it in beta. He only lasted a few weeks before he'd reached max level in it and was bored stupid, he was soon back to eve with a vengeance.


played it for 5 days, got to max level, full XII gear and capped EC then its like now what :-/
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#31 - 2012-02-28 21:12:56 UTC
So Sensational wrote:
BeforetheStorm90 wrote:
So WoW basically, only in Eve. -_-

Instancing and the absence of pvp are possible the most anti-eve ideas in existence.

So yeah, nice going there.

Maybe that's why WoW has 10 million subs and EVE has 400k? (Owned)


"Owned" lol, only in your own mind. Turning EVE into Space WoW, won't make it WoW, it will make it a WoW clone. How many WoW clones are here today and gone tomorrow, they fail to get the subs of WoW and none have any hope of a fraction of the longevity of game like EVE.

OPer,

Your idea is as welcome here as cat shite in a bread bun.
Destru Kaneda
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#32 - 2012-02-28 21:22:21 UTC
I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve. How is playing shallow, instanced, avatar-based PVE going to get more people interested in flying spaceships?

Presenting the world, as you put it, should be done in space. You know, where the world is.

I like it best when the beats are naked.
Jerec Bratt
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-02-28 21:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerec Bratt
Quote:
Your idea is as welcome here as cat shite in a bread bun.

I am really sorry to upset you so much, but I am pretty sure that it's not my idea you're referring to.

My proposal is for CCP to stop bothering with high graphics and PVP balancing for WiP and produce a feature that is easier to implement as the next step in WiP creation, whenever they're plannng to take that step. The effect I already described and is as beneficial for players as for CCP itself.

You my fried are referring to someone on the forums stating, that "Instancing and the absence of pvp are possible the most anti-eve ideas in existence" which has barely anything to do with the OP, except two words. We have CQ as a step in WiP and it is an instanced non-PVP feature. If we wait for CCP to be able to simultaniously display more avatars on screen or to balance avatar PVP, it's ok. But getting something to TQ fast, and something that would generate revenue, would be much better. So I proposed another instanced non-PVP feature, that barely affects FiS gameplay. And here you are sir, telling me stories of cat poo, where I'd like to see an unbiased opinion. Like thi one:

Quote:
Presenting the world, as you put it, should be done in space. You know, where the world is.


This is very true.
But then - introducing the world has only one purpose - to build immersion.
And then it's just the question of limited access. Even in space you see some Large Collidable Objects shaped to be platforms, on which there are crated, doors to go inside and lit windows. This looks just like a space level of a shooter andjust asks to be boarded. It's the world you can see but you're force to treat it as decoration. While I treat it as such, people I try to invite to EVE don't - it's breaking the immersion, when you can't access parts of the world you see right there.
kurg
Order of the Divine Shadow
#34 - 2012-02-28 21:31:54 UTC
Serge Bastana wrote:
(...) Pure numbers mean very little when you're talking about a game(...)


Incorrect:

Pure numbers = amount of funding/features/servers/network/infrastructure and on and so on...
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#35 - 2012-02-28 21:34:10 UTC
Jerec Bratt wrote:


It is true that CCp is developing a game called DUST514 that is a battleground for thousands of players. The only problem is it does not take place in station interiors nor can you play on any PC.



Well that sounds like a personal problem. You ask for avatar action and CCP delivers it in the form of Dust. This is a space ship game. Our action is in space. What you are asking for is a way to hide and play Eve single player to your hearts content. 0 risk and still profit without even having to leave the confines of a station.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Jerec Bratt
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-02-28 21:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerec Bratt
Quote:
Well that sounds like a personal problem. You ask for avatar action and CCP delivers it in the form of Dust. This is a space ship game. Our action is in space. What you are asking for is a way to hide and play Eve single player to your hearts content. 0 risk and still profit without even having to leave the confines of a station.

Well, you might think I am asking for this, but when you read OP again, you'll notice, that the feature I describe is only a step to get all sorts of PVP going on inside the stations.
But you have a point - during the time this feature is only accessed by a single player, it can create imbalance. My perception is, that it would cause the same amount of damage to the economy as missions that another player cannot interrupt.
My proposal is not "YOU MUST MAKE INSTANCED AVATAR COMBAT' - it's rather 'If avatars, then make low polycount PVE as soon as possible, and then go to PVP and highres models".

Quote:
Pure numbers = amount of funding/features/servers/network/infrastructure and on and so on...

That is one of the major reasons I raised my voice. If CCP islooking to attract a ot of new players with their avataqr system, I bielieve that tthis is a way to go. And then fwith sufficient funding they'll go wherever they want.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#37 - 2012-02-28 21:42:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Sure, as long as you remove the “instancing” idea, because instances don't belong in the EVE universe and I'm not even sure the game itself supports it; as long as the PvE you're suggesting is subject to PvP so it can be disrupted; and as long as the protection provided is done by the players themselves and not by NPCs.

Oh, and the rewards will need to be quite paltry, since there is no cost or risk involved. Think L1s and turorial missions, or somewhere slightly below that level.
Jerec Bratt
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-02-28 21:49:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sure, as long as you remove the “instancing” idea, because instances don't belong in the EVE universe and I'm not even sure the game itself supports it; as long as the PvE you're suggesting is subject to PvP so it can be disrupted; and as long as the protection provided is done by the players themselves and not by NPCs.

Oh, and the rewards will need to be quite paltry, since there is no cost or risk involved. Think L1s and turorial missions, or somewhere slightly below that level.


Frankly, the rewards are not my concern. I am not here to opt for personal gain, but simply bielieve that's a way of CCP gathering more money for EVE. And as I said - CQ are instanced, so they've put instancing into the code at some point.
I obviously want the feature to work like what you described. It's just the technical problems when facing mass player interaction that concern me - making this PVP will take an additional effort that can only make the wait longer. I've seen EVE for a couple of years and I see the subsciber numbers changing. Avatar based combat would, in my opinion, be a great boost to subscription numbers, so the faster CCP gets there the better - hence my 'PVE-only' plan.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#39 - 2012-02-28 21:51:07 UTC
Jerec Bratt wrote:
Quote:
Well that sounds like a personal problem. You ask for avatar action and CCP delivers it in the form of Dust. This is a space ship game. Our action is in space. What you are asking for is a way to hide and play Eve single player to your hearts content. 0 risk and still profit without even having to leave the confines of a station.

Well, you might think I am asking for this, but when you read OP again, you'll notice, that the feature I describe is only a step to get all sorts of PVP going on inside the stations.


Now as I recall, and somebody correct me on this if I'm wrong, but CCP never had any intention of including pvp into WIS. The purpose of Eve is supposed to be epic space battles, not getting shanked while you're sitting on the crapper.

And why wouldn't players be able to scan one such individual down? Personally I find the station to be much smaller than the solar system it's in. Not exactly like you've got unlimited places to hide.

Also, given the option to re-arm and rem-mod your ship between missions, jump between 0-4 systems, warp to a mission and have a chance of being scanned out, complete and warp back, finish and warp out to clean up (if you didn't do this already)

OR

Open your door, which would you rather choose?

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#40 - 2012-02-28 21:56:35 UTC
i can tell you haven't been here long, welcome to Eve Online Forums