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Balancing Feedback: Hybrid Turrets

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1821 - 2012-01-28 22:11:18 UTC
qwick fix for caldari would be remove the optimal range bonus and replace with a rate of fire bonus... dps will go up 33%...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Ninevite
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1822 - 2012-01-29 05:53:00 UTC
CCP isn't even reading this because they don't give a ****, they just make these threads to give the impression that they are listening and to make you pay for a few months more waiting and hoping for CCP to pull their head out of their asses
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1823 - 2012-01-29 11:27:11 UTC
Ninevite wrote:
CCP isn't even reading this because they don't give a ****, they just make these threads to give the impression that they are listening and to make you pay for a few months more waiting and hoping for CCP to pull their head out of their asses

this
sollution -> stop paying
Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1824 - 2012-01-29 11:45:24 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Ninevite wrote:
CCP isn't even reading this because they don't give a ****, they just make these threads to give the impression that they are listening and to make you pay for a few months more waiting and hoping for CCP to pull their head out of their asses

this
sollution -> stop paying


This I have done 3 weeks ago.
I have 900M ISK and a few ships.
I will sell this ships so I can afford 2 Plex, giving me 2 additional month.
If things don't change in that time I will just quit EVE.
I explained the reasons very clearly when I unsubed:
- CCP communication is a big fail
- Hybrids balance is a fail
- Overall balance is a fail
- CCP communication is a big fail again
- Name should be changed to Minmatar online instead of EVE
- CCP communication is an epic fail
- CCP treats his customers like stupid idiots

I think this is the only way. They have to feel it on the income.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1825 - 2012-01-29 14:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mariner6
Magosian wrote:
Also consider introducing a mechanism that allows pilots to remove drawback completely. Armor rigs are absolutely stupid on any ship who hopes to get in range of a target who has higher base speed in the first place. Say, 20% reduction to drawback per trained level of rigging, obviously 100% reduction at level V?

It's sensible and logical, and drawbacks never really made any sense anyhow.



I agree with the whole problem with Gallente getting into range issues. However, I think there will be 2nd and 3rd order effects of doing what you propose. If you get rid of the draw back to armor rigs, sure it will help Gallente ships, but it will also help all other ships. Particularly the Hurricane. Can you imagine a armor tanked hurricane that is just as fast as a current shield tanked version? With its already very small sig radius that will become the preferred close in killer because it will be faster, tank more, still put out dps regardless of neuting etc etc. So, I submit that changes to rigs/drawbacks are not the answer. The answer must be found in changing the base stats to Gallente hulls.

No easy solution, though we are all on the same side. What would you think of Gallente ships able to come out of warp faster than any other ship. I'm all about having to do the work to get a punt/warp in on a target. But the problem is by the time you land and decelerate out of warp and begin the targeting process, the target has burned out of scram/web range even with a perfect interdiction maneuvers boost. Perhaps if gallente ships could do that warp braking/acceleration to max warp speed faster then the chances of getting a hard and heavy tackle on the target would go up significantly. Overall I think Gallente needs some ships boosted for heavy tackle. Like the Brutix with a big boost to scram (and scram only) range. Some where near 20km's with perfect skills and interdiction maneuvers boost. Give the myrm a similar boost to web range. Make those two ships work together to get heavy tackle on all these kiters, but the key will have to be higher scan resolution and a much faster braking out of warp.

There is no way to make Gallente so fast as to be a chasing kiters without screwing up the whole game. Smart tactics and team work will be required, but as it stands right now the mechanics don't exist to really counter kiting even with perfect punts. (sure you get warp disrupter, but that's near worthless particularly against these tier 3 bc's.)
RackotPrime
The Space Cossacks.
#1826 - 2012-01-30 07:25:53 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:
Magosian wrote:
Also consider introducing a mechanism that allows pilots to remove drawback completely. Armor rigs are absolutely stupid on any ship who hopes to get in range of a target who has higher base speed in the first place. Say, 20% reduction to drawback per trained level of rigging, obviously 100% reduction at level V?

It's sensible and logical, and drawbacks never really made any sense anyhow.



I agree with the whole problem with Gallente getting into range issues. However, I think there will be 2nd and 3rd order effects of doing what you propose. If you get rid of the draw back to armor rigs, sure it will help Gallente ships, but it will also help all other ships. Particularly the Hurricane. Can you imagine a armor tanked hurricane that is just as fast as a current shield tanked version? With its already very small sig radius that will become the preferred close in killer because it will be faster, tank more, still put out dps regardless of neuting etc etc. So, I submit that changes to rigs/drawbacks are not the answer. The answer must be found in changing the base stats to Gallente hulls.

No easy solution, though we are all on the same side. What would you think of Gallente ships able to come out of warp faster than any other ship. I'm all about having to do the work to get a punt/warp in on a target. But the problem is by the time you land and decelerate out of warp and begin the targeting process, the target has burned out of scram/web range even with a perfect interdiction maneuvers boost. Perhaps if gallente ships could do that warp braking/acceleration to max warp speed faster then the chances of getting a hard and heavy tackle on the target would go up significantly. Overall I think Gallente needs some ships boosted for heavy tackle. Like the Brutix with a big boost to scram (and scram only) range. Some where near 20km's with perfect skills and interdiction maneuvers boost. Give the myrm a similar boost to web range. Make those two ships work together to get heavy tackle on all these kiters, but the key will have to be higher scan resolution and a much faster braking out of warp.

There is no way to make Gallente so fast as to be a chasing kiters without screwing up the whole game. Smart tactics and team work will be required, but as it stands right now the mechanics don't exist to really counter kiting even with perfect punts. (sure you get warp disrupter, but that's near worthless particularly against these tier 3 bc's.)

nerf minmatar speed and change armor rig penalty, in armor tank minmatars will lose damage, range ans agility, so there no problems at all
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#1827 - 2012-01-30 09:00:37 UTC
RackotPrime wrote:
Mariner6 wrote:
Magosian wrote:
Also consider introducing a mechanism that allows pilots to remove drawback completely. Armor rigs are absolutely stupid on any ship who hopes to get in range of a target who has higher base speed in the first place. Say, 20% reduction to drawback per trained level of rigging, obviously 100% reduction at level V?

It's sensible and logical, and drawbacks never really made any sense anyhow.



I agree with the whole problem with Gallente getting into range issues. However, I think there will be 2nd and 3rd order effects of doing what you propose. If you get rid of the draw back to armor rigs, sure it will help Gallente ships, but it will also help all other ships. Particularly the Hurricane. Can you imagine a armor tanked hurricane that is just as fast as a current shield tanked version? With its already very small sig radius that will become the preferred close in killer because it will be faster, tank more, still put out dps regardless of neuting etc etc. So, I submit that changes to rigs/drawbacks are not the answer. The answer must be found in changing the base stats to Gallente hulls.

No easy solution, though we are all on the same side. What would you think of Gallente ships able to come out of warp faster than any other ship. I'm all about having to do the work to get a punt/warp in on a target. But the problem is by the time you land and decelerate out of warp and begin the targeting process, the target has burned out of scram/web range even with a perfect interdiction maneuvers boost. Perhaps if gallente ships could do that warp braking/acceleration to max warp speed faster then the chances of getting a hard and heavy tackle on the target would go up significantly. Overall I think Gallente needs some ships boosted for heavy tackle. Like the Brutix with a big boost to scram (and scram only) range. Some where near 20km's with perfect skills and interdiction maneuvers boost. Give the myrm a similar boost to web range. Make those two ships work together to get heavy tackle on all these kiters, but the key will have to be higher scan resolution and a much faster braking out of warp.

There is no way to make Gallente so fast as to be a chasing kiters without screwing up the whole game. Smart tactics and team work will be required, but as it stands right now the mechanics don't exist to really counter kiting even with perfect punts. (sure you get warp disrupter, but that's near worthless particularly against these tier 3 bc's.)


nerf minmatar speed and change armor rig penalty, in armor tank minmatars will lose damage, range ans agility, so there no problems at all



why not just remove minmatar completely? .. srsly dude .. troll somewhere else.


to the issue at hand: well im still no expert, but the longer this whole issue festers around the more i believe blaster ships need to be the fastest ships. i don't know about that agility though.
shouldn't be the kiters more agile but not quite as fast as the brawler, for the brawler just wants to get into the thick of battle while the kiter likes to wiggle himself out of the way?
i always thought of the brutix as the bull charging like hell and not as the ballerina...
RackotPrime
The Space Cossacks.
#1828 - 2012-01-30 10:27:16 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:

i always thought of the brutix as the bull charging like hell and not as the ballerina...

whit no speed penalty from rigs brutix are really became a bull, and be more able to get in blaster range
winmatars afraid to loss "win" button?
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1829 - 2012-01-30 11:37:44 UTC
its agility and acceleration, what blaster ships need now
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#1830 - 2012-01-30 12:39:53 UTC
RackotPrime wrote:
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:

i always thought of the brutix as the bull charging like hell and not as the ballerina...

whit no speed penalty from rigs brutix are really became a bull, and be more able to get in blaster range
winmatars afraid to loss "win" button?


gallente bittervet that desperate to gain a "win button" ?
do you care to elaborate your ingenious plan in making rig penalties only for minmatar?

@technokrat: i see how the agility (and acceleration) would help in that moment shortly after the warp in.
but it will do nothing for gtfo or chasing down that pesky cane, holding you at arms lenght

it is blaster boats for shock trooper combat then?

RackotPrime
The Space Cossacks.
#1831 - 2012-01-30 14:10:28 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
RackotPrime wrote:
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:

i always thought of the brutix as the bull charging like hell and not as the ballerina...

whit no speed penalty from rigs brutix are really became a bull, and be more able to get in blaster range
winmatars afraid to loss "win" button?


gallente bittervet that desperate to gain a "win button" ?
do you care to elaborate your ingenious plan in making rig penalties only for minmatar?

@technokrat: i see how the agility (and acceleration) would help in that moment shortly after the warp in.
but it will do nothing for gtfo or chasing down that pesky cane, holding you at arms lenght

it is blaster boats for shock trooper combat then?


who is trolling now?
Quote:
change armor rig penalty

as for agility, mass and sig - it's all different story
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1832 - 2012-01-30 15:20:45 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:
Magosian wrote:
Also consider introducing a mechanism that allows pilots to remove drawback completely. Armor rigs are absolutely stupid on any ship who hopes to get in range of a target who has higher base speed in the first place. Say, 20% reduction to drawback per trained level of rigging, obviously 100% reduction at level V?

It's sensible and logical, and drawbacks never really made any sense anyhow.



I agree with the whole problem with Gallente getting into range issues. However, I think there will be 2nd and 3rd order effects of doing what you propose. If you get rid of the draw back to armor rigs, sure it will help Gallente ships, but it will also help all other ships. Particularly the Hurricane. Can you imagine a armor tanked hurricane that is just as fast as a current shield tanked version? With its already very small sig radius that will become the preferred close in killer because it will be faster, tank more, still put out dps regardless of neuting etc etc. So, I submit that changes to rigs/drawbacks are not the answer. The answer must be found in changing the base stats to Gallente hulls.

No easy solution, though we are all on the same side. What would you think of Gallente ships able to come out of warp faster than any other ship. I'm all about having to do the work to get a punt/warp in on a target. But the problem is by the time you land and decelerate out of warp and begin the targeting process, the target has burned out of scram/web range even with a perfect interdiction maneuvers boost. Perhaps if gallente ships could do that warp braking/acceleration to max warp speed faster then the chances of getting a hard and heavy tackle on the target would go up significantly. Overall I think Gallente needs some ships boosted for heavy tackle. Like the Brutix with a big boost to scram (and scram only) range. Some where near 20km's with perfect skills and interdiction maneuvers boost. Give the myrm a similar boost to web range. Make those two ships work together to get heavy tackle on all these kiters, but the key will have to be higher scan resolution and a much faster braking out of warp.

There is no way to make Gallente so fast as to be a chasing kiters without screwing up the whole game. Smart tactics and team work will be required, but as it stands right now the mechanics don't exist to really counter kiting even with perfect punts. (sure you get warp disrupter, but that's near worthless particularly against these tier 3 bc's.)



Yes indeed. My suggestion to remove drawback was something I posted late at night without providing much detail, so my apologies. Perhaps it would make more sense if I also clarified: remove drawback from rigs WITH THE EXCEPTION OF BUFFER RIGS!

This does a few things:

1) makes sense: obviously with buffers, you are either slapping more metal on your ship or thickening the "band" of shields around your ship, so...duh
2) conversely, adding a device to make nanobots repair faster or more efficiently is PROBABLY not adding a whole lot of mass to the ship; hell, it's something that could probably fit in your cargo bay. Same goes for any shield "device" which also makes shield repair more efficient.
3) My suggestion was in addition to a hybrid platform agility buff....a BIG ONE

Probably the best clarification I can provide is I'm trying to think of methods which allow Gallente to retain local rep bonuses. I do like the idea that armor repair actually works and would hate to see the bonus go. Fact of the matter is, in the grand scheme of things, local rep is simply a tool for the solo hermit. So who knows....

And to comment on your suggestions, I wouldn't mind seeing them at all, but if they were to be implemented, they are clearly bonuses to makeup for such a crappy weapons platform. I'd rather they just fix the turrets.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#1833 - 2012-01-30 15:28:00 UTC
Something should be done to rigs for sure... I would suggest changing the velocity penalty to affect lock range, scan resolution, sensor strength or some of the other stats that are important, but not as crucial as ship velocity.
But then this isn't the only issue with rigs tbh

Pinky
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#1834 - 2012-01-30 16:18:10 UTC
RackotPrime wrote:

who is trolling now?
Quote:
change armor rig penalty

as for agility, mass and sig - it's all different story


well, still you. because leaving out the essential part of your original trollpost does not detroll you.
for example,
original post: "you're quite good at trolling"
later on quoted: "you're quite good" - how could you have gotten the idea of me calling you a troll?

;) and now i'm a troll too. yey.


rigs should be the last thing beeing brought into the balancing atm because:
they open up a lot of possibilities which making the attempt of creating balance nearly impossible.
one should balance ships, weapons (bringing projectiles back into line, making hybrids more desireable) and tanking first (aktive <-> passive - is there atm reason to fit something else than meta4 plates? or to use something smaller than 200mm?)
should be quite a task.

once that is done one can look at rigging (and imps for that matter) again and do it without destroying the newly won balance.

funny fact:
minmatar are the big success because they are "designed" to be versatile. people fill that lack of purpose with their own intentions and creativity, finding lots of viable setups just take the cane as the best example). maybe it should be explored how the other races could give more room for being creative and actually being rewarded for that with viable setups. without destroying the flavor of each race.
Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1835 - 2012-01-30 21:29:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Hamox
Guys, seriously, stop that brainstorming.
You really think CCP is reading this? And if so, you really think CCP is going to implement something of this?

Try to post something more "realistic", where realistic means stuff that CCP will possibly implement the next few years, like:
- 10% less minerals for Hybrid ammo so the ammo gets cheaper and so it can help Gallente becouse of those thousands of shoots that don't hit anything, at least you save some money now on ammo!
- A few additional % range for Null so we have finally overpowered Gallente Frigs, then after a few weeks we Nerf Null massively to the state prior all of this changes!
- 2% more PG for all Gallente ships so Die-Most will still have one unused high slot but that is the price for using good weapons i guess...
- 5% more structure hitpoints for Gallente ships as a effective 3rd defense line (in case diemost needs some target help and has therefore crap armor).
+ 1,5% to Armor Kinetic Ressistance so Galllente can hold longer vs Tengu with nasty kinetic missles (Caldari is the main enemy for Gallente!).
+ 2% to Shield Kinetic Ressistance just to make sure the Armor idea vs Tangu works also for the shild Myrm with ACs

And as THE final passive bonus to Gallente to make the ships worth flying it:
+ 1 max locked target on AS and HACs
This is even more awesome than cap free weapons, fastest ships, badass alpha and so on. Hey, you can now lock an additional target on a ship that you will never use for fleet combat...
OK but I'm sure creative players will find a way to benefit from this on a 1on1 or a nice setup gate camp. It is up to you to use your creativity like Minmatar pilots do! Go out now and use it!

Ok I know, this suggestions do not fix Gallente, BUT: it is more likely that CCP implements this changes than everything you have suggested ;)
Ninevite
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1836 - 2012-01-30 23:55:08 UTC
Hamox wrote:
Guys, seriously, stop that brainstorming.
You really think CCP is reading this? And if so, you really think CCP is going to implement something of this?

Try to post something more "realistic", where realistic means stuff that CCP will possibly implement the next few years, like:
- 10% less minerals for Hybrid ammo so the ammo gets cheaper and so it can help Gallente becouse of those thousands of shoots that don't hit anything, at least you save some money now on ammo!
- A few additional % range for Null so we have finally overpowered Gallente Frigs, then after a few weeks we Nerf Null massively to the state prior all of this changes!
- 2% more PG for all Gallente ships so Die-Most will still have one unused high slot but that is the price for using good weapons i guess...
- 5% more structure hitpoints for Gallente ships as a effective 3rd defense line (in case diemost needs some target help and has therefore crap armor).
+ 1,5% to Armor Kinetic Ressistance so Galllente can hold longer vs Tengu with nasty kinetic missles (Caldari is the main enemy for Gallente!).
+ 2% to Shield Kinetic Ressistance just to make sure the Armor idea vs Tangu works also for the shild Myrm with ACs

And as THE final passive bonus to Gallente to make the ships worth flying it:
+ 1 max locked target on AS and HACs
This is even more awesome than cap free weapons, fastest ships, badass alpha and so on. Hey, you can now lock an additional target on a ship that you will never use for fleet combat...
OK but I'm sure creative players will find a way to benefit from this on a 1on1 or a nice setup gate camp. It is up to you to use your creativity like Minmatar pilots do! Go out now and use it!

Ok I know, this suggestions do not fix Gallente, BUT: it is more likely that CCP implements this changes than everything you have suggested ;)


I am lol'ing hard because this is a very accurate assessment of what we will probably witness
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#1837 - 2012-01-31 09:20:07 UTC
Hamox wrote:
Guys, seriously, stop that brainstorming.
You really think CCP is reading this? And if so, you really think CCP is going to implement something of this?

Try to post something more "realistic", where realistic means stuff that CCP will possibly implement the next few years, like:
- 10% less minerals for Hybrid ammo so the ammo gets cheaper and so it can help Gallente becouse of those thousands of shoots that don't hit anything, at least you save some money now on ammo!
- A few additional % range for Null so we have finally overpowered Gallente Frigs, then after a few weeks we Nerf Null massively to the state prior all of this changes!
- 2% more PG for all Gallente ships so Die-Most will still have one unused high slot but that is the price for using good weapons i guess...
- 5% more structure hitpoints for Gallente ships as a effective 3rd defense line (in case diemost needs some target help and has therefore crap armor).
+ 1,5% to Armor Kinetic Ressistance so Galllente can hold longer vs Tengu with nasty kinetic missles (Caldari is the main enemy for Gallente!).
+ 2% to Shield Kinetic Ressistance just to make sure the Armor idea vs Tangu works also for the shild Myrm with ACs

And as THE final passive bonus to Gallente to make the ships worth flying it:
+ 1 max locked target on AS and HACs
This is even more awesome than cap free weapons, fastest ships, badass alpha and so on. Hey, you can now lock an additional target on a ship that you will never use for fleet combat...
OK but I'm sure creative players will find a way to benefit from this on a 1on1 or a nice setup gate camp. It is up to you to use your creativity like Minmatar pilots do! Go out now and use it!

Ok I know, this suggestions do not fix Gallente, BUT: it is more likely that CCP implements this changes than everything you have suggested ;)


you surely are one hell of an optimist.
today is the last of january, we'll see if tallest comes up with something.
after that there still is enough time to be pessimistic...
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1838 - 2012-01-31 10:21:51 UTC
Tallest said a while back that the devs have been, and continue to read the forum, but as we don't work at CCP I'm sure they take all this under advisement. Less communications means they're probably working hard on implementing fixes, so I counsel patience.

Here's another way of looking at the hybrid problem, comparing them to turrets from other races:

Projectiles:
* No cap use
* Variable damage type,
* Good falloff range for AC's
* Excellent alpha for arty.
* Reload time of 10 seconds

Lasers:
* Substantial cap use
* Locked into EM/therm damage
* Excellent optimal for pulse
* Good range for beam lasers, as well as ROF.
* No reloading time

Hybrids should fit into the middle of this equation:
* Low cap use (check!)
* Good optimal and falloff for blasters, but neither stat should be as good as pulse lasers or AC's. The range boost would enable blaster-fit ships to be more effective without having to modify armour tanking as it currently stands for more speed or agility. Damage would be reduced from its current amount, and tracking would go down a little too, but would still be superior to pulse lasers because it's closer ranged, and AC's because they don't use cap, and can vary damage type.
* Railguns should be in between beam lasers and artillery in terms of ROF and alpha, and damage needs to be improved for medium and large rails from their current levels (5-10%). PG demands of medium and large rails should be checked to ensure they are comparible to beam and arty platforms like the zealot and apoc.
* Reduce the granularity of range options for hybrid ammo, and give the option for 80/20, 50/50 and 20/80 on kinetic/thermal damage as was mentioned previous in this thread, thus providing *some* damage variation.
* Reloading time is 5 seconds, a good middle-ground. (check!)
* Null ammo would be range-nerfed to keep its current range based on the new baseline range for hybrid ammo.

I don't think armour plates or rigs should be touched, as 'fixing' them for Gallente also benefits Amarr, and they're working pretty well at the moment. Just my 2 cents. Peace.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#1839 - 2012-01-31 11:14:13 UTC
Galphii wrote:
Tallest said a while back that the devs have been, and continue to read the forum, but as we don't work at CCP I'm sure they take all this under advisement. Less communications means they're probably working hard on implementing fixes, so I counsel patience.

Here's another way of looking at the hybrid problem, comparing them to turrets from other races:

Projectiles:
* No cap use
* Variable damage type,
* Good falloff range for AC's
* Excellent alpha for arty.
* Reload time of 10 seconds

Lasers:
* Substantial cap use
* Locked into EM/therm damage
* Excellent optimal for pulse
* Good range for beam lasers, as well as ROF.
* No reloading time

Hybrids should fit into the middle of this equation:
* Low cap use (check!)
* Optimal sub-laser, falloff sub-projectile; combined sub-both (unless Caldari boat, then damage sub-both)
* Railguns should be in between beam lasers and artillery in terms of ROF and alpha. Where does it state that rails should again be mediocre?
* Reduce the granularity of range options for hybrid ammo, and give the option for 80/20, 50/50 and 20/80 on kinetic/thermal damage as was mentioned previous in this thread, thus providing *some* damage variation.
* Reloading time is 5 seconds, a good middle-ground. (check!)
* Null ammo would be range-nerfed to keep its current range based on the new baseline range for hybrid ammo.

I don't think armour plates or rigs should be touched, as 'fixing' them for Gallente also benefits Amarr, and they're working pretty well at the moment. Just my 2 cents. Peace.


Tweaked your post.

Given the massive predominance of Minmatar ships, I have no objection to Amarr ships getting a little love as part of a rig change. Ideally all 4 races should have something to offer a fleet. If that meant Gallente excelled at frigate level action, while Minmatar dominated battlecruiser levels, Amarr dominated medium range BS levels and Caldari dominated long range BS levels, then at least we'd have variety. All races should have valid T2 variations at all levels. Close range BS are unlikely to make much of a return in force any time soon simply because of the overwhelming advantage of going for the mid ranged option with BS being so slow.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1840 - 2012-01-31 13:22:22 UTC
Nikuno wrote:

Tweaked your post.


Some fine tweaking there. The thing with making railguns in-between beams and arty is that the choice seems to be between alpha and ROF. Personally I'm fine if rails are basically identical to arty, but it makes sense to have more variation between weapons. Certainly the dominance of alpha (and matari artillery boats) would dictate that beams and rails should be the same in order to compete - perhaps having rails do more damage but having a higher rate of fire and less alpha is the way to go, but I'm pretty sure I just wrote that earlier.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.