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Heres my 2isk...

When I can fit an omen with blasters and get more dps than pulse...

There is a balancing issue.

here is a nerf for arties... usually in the real world artilitery are meant to do mass damage over a specific area... but in the game arties do mass damage over a small area... why not increase the base sig resolution of the guns... make large arties sit at 550 sig and so on... this would decrease thier end game number on the chance to hit formula and make other weapon systems to competitive damage?

Your statistics doesn't look impressive either, - 155 kills with a load of them being farmers - yet you have claims to be an expert in such a complex area as weapon balance. You can fly Gallente as much as you want, but lack of experience with other races combined with poor stats at Gallente themselves removes a great deal of validity from your words.

As someone with much more intense PvP record I find your general conclusion in the last line to be utterly clueless.

This thread is there for a sole reason of competent players warning CCP about performing excessive steps on hybrids alone instead of treating the whole balance as a complex matter, where things like hulls, rigs, mods and so on also do have their role in making something superior or inferior.

Stating that 'med and large hybrids still need a lot of help' is getting us away from that.

Seriously, dude. Do you really believe I'm worse than you at PvP or that I hate Gallente or something equally absurd? I just don't get your point in arguing in the first place.

Any reason why hybrid guns need to use cap ??? Projectile guns can do the same more or less but without cap need.
Thats something should be looked at too. Maybe all hybrid ships base cap regen increased by 30-40% to comensate , so they are still not neut proof, but dont get behind projectile ships in cap dependancy ,as we know arties not only used due to imba alpha,but must better cap stability too as it lets ships to mwd more ( as winmatar ships already the fastest) which gives better control of range--> wins fights

Just a hint :
tornado with arti range fit can mwd+fire for 9m from full cap and
naga/talos can only do that for 3m :I completly uncalled disadvantage what isnt compensated by anything

maybe could be made that when firing hybrids cap recharge is lowered like 5%/turret

well i started a thread months ago to give some disadvantages to projectiles but the casual playerbase(winmatar pilots) want to keep their easy difficulties and qq-ed against it , so only thing remained is to boost the hybrids and maybe lasers :P

oh btw dont you find it strange that every advantages other races get is from the bonuses , and still minmatar gets "free" better speed/signature, like a hidden bonus for most of their ships

Hello all. Good times....

Rank Ships Kills
1 Drake 184015
2 Maelstrom 122055
3 Tengu 107609
4 Hurricane 93759
5 Abaddon 68809
6 Armageddon 47606
7 Tornado 42132
8 Scimitar 34675
9 Tempest 33565
10 Sabre 26533
11 Huginn 24567
12 Zealot 23110
13 Hound 20398
14 Cynabal 20227
15 Loki 18110
16 Manticore 17710
17 Lachesis 17693
18 Oracle 17454
19 Nyx 17362
20 Rapier 16969

Total ships used in top 20: 954358
Total kills involving a Gallente ship: 35055

So, two of the top twenty ships, which account for LESS THAN 4% (3.67%) of the kills listed here, involve Gallente. One is a supercarrier and one is Recon/Ewar; NEITHER are gunboats.



Moving on....

Rank Weapons Kills
1 Heavy Missile Launcher II 106667
2 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II 34481
3 425mm AutoCannon II 33904
4 Mega Pulse Laser II 29749
5 200mm AutoCannon II 19433
6 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 16260
7 150mm Light AutoCannon II 16103
8 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II 15491
9 720mm Howitzer Artillery II 13954
10 Heavy Pulse Laser II 12966
11 800mm Repeating Artillery II 11814
12 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher 8346
13 425mm Railgun II 7117
14 1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon 6011
15 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I 5728
16 Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I 5590
17 Light Neutron Blaster II 5493
18 1400mm Gallium Cannon 5300
19 Heavy Neutron Blaster II 5283
20 Neutron Blaster Cannon II 4937

Total kills by weapon-type in the top 20: 348524
Total kills involving a hybrid turret: 22830

Of all involved weapon types used in the top 20, hybrids comprise less than 7% (6.55%)......jesus, where do I start???

• railguns only show up once
• all blasters COMBINED are used less than the smallest and weakest projectile turret on the list: 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II
• there are FOUR tech 1 weapon systems, ALL OF WHICH have more presense than the T2 blasters listed
• the ONE Gallente claim-to-fame, a.k.a. drones, makes no appearance DESPITE this stat potentially being padded as most of the top-20 ships have drone bays

And before you say it, no, Null ammo is not going to change this. Crucible has been out for a while now with no change in hybrid or hybrid platform popularity. This thread absolutely deserves to be re-stickied and CCP devs need to re-engage the playerbase on how to further address this failed attempt at balancing hybrids as they need further tweaking or a total rework.

Just some random thoughts:

Hybrids do perform at the frigate level

• typical high speeds of the frigate class IN ADDITION TO typical high agility make closing the gap on unsuspecting ships fairly easy to do, ESPECIALLY when overloading prop modules. The gallente blaster philosophy works for frigates because there is sufficient speed and acceleration on high-speed, low-mass ships to execute it.
• most frigate-sized weapons have an effective range on par with or under warp scramber and webber ranges. This makes hybrids incredibly more useful in the world of frigate combat.
• drone speeds exceed most MWD-propped, nano'd frigates. Obviously there are exceptions, but for the most part, small drones don't have a problem keeping up with frigates in combat.

Conversely, hybrids do NOT perform at the cruiser/BC/BS level


• the ranges of propulsion-inhibiting tackle (warp scrams and webs, NOT disruptors) does not scale with weapons systems once in the medium and large classes. This is in tandem with blaster ranges ALSO not properly scaling with other weapon systems. Hybrids suffer twofold because of this (yes, even after the Null buffs)
• as ships get bigger, attainable speeds drop, but more importantlly, acceleration takes an incredible hit as ship mass increases. To this day, executing the blaster philsophy on anything larger than a destroyer is an absolute nightmare unless you're fighting on a structure/station or have a "warp to 0" option on your target.

Conclusions


• scaling/buffing propulsion-inhibiting tackle seems like a good idea for about 5 seconds, until you realize ALL ships and turrets would benefit from this change, thus fixing nothing.
• should further hybrid balancing changes take place (and I hope to god they do because they're still needed), pay patricular attention to what changes in the realm of frigate combat, as hybrids could easily become the powerhouse with even the slightest of changes.
• why not significantly buff the agility of Gallente and Caldari hybrid-bonused ships? And I'm not talking about that 3-5% crap from crucible, I'm talking 10-20%. This would provide a means to execute the blaster philosophy on larger ships as it counters propulsion penalties calcuated when props are running. It would significantly boost acceleration. It would curb penalties incurred from armor rigs and armor plates. The whole idea is: take my earlier description of hybrid-frigate combat and bring that capability to the larger ships.

No, the real question is:
Does CCP seriously want to balance anything or do they just want to gain some time so we stay with the game an pay. All tactics to hold Gal pilots to the game and not to annoy other players and large corps who have their "style of success".

No reply from Tallest, even nothing regarding the latest Null changes, just nothing. Nobody knows if there will be more changes or if this is it. A huge communication fail from CCP as usual. But this time it hurts becouse after the promisses from the CEO with his marketing blablah letter people really expected some changes.

Also consider introducing a mechanism that allows pilots to remove drawback completely. Armor rigs are absolutely stupid on any ship who hopes to get in range of a target who has higher base speed in the first place. Say, 20% reduction to drawback per trained level of rigging, obviously 100% reduction at level V?

It's sensible and logical, and drawbacks never really made any sense anyhow.