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Plex price 3M?

Author
Uthgaard
Because ISK
#61 - 2017-06-20 15:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Uthgaard
Jenn aSide wrote:
Uthgaard wrote:
Ghost training and afk ratting. But mostly ghost training. Due to incursion farming and the rise in afk carrier ratting & VNI orbiting,
ISK faucets exceed ISK sinks, leading to inflation.

When you could afk carriers and people were afking ishtars all over the place the money supply was fine.


That's why it helps to read an entire post and not sperg out before you finish the third sentence. I barely gave the bounties a passing mention, yet somehow that's what you managed to get hung up on.

Reddit is right. These forums are cancer.
Uthgaard
Because ISK
#62 - 2017-06-20 15:35:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Uthgaard
I'll say it again for everyone who missed it.

PLEX is overpriced right now because ghost training sucked it all out of the economy, since it was effectively an ISK copying machine.

If you don't understand how, it's back on page 2.

Cue sperglord army nitpicking tiny details because they just spent 2 pages trying to sound deep and philosophical.
Rain6637
NulzSec
#63 - 2017-06-20 15:35:49 UTC
Scialt
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2017-06-20 15:40:21 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
It's actually because the plex market is driven (& has been for years now) by investors & speculators. Not by consumers. Which means that most of the people involved in the plex market want the price to keep going up in order to get a reward on their investment.
It's basically a share market in that regards, growing like a bubble, and if it ever bursts a lot of peoples investments crash hard. And some of those people are rich enough to influence the markets of EVE and make sure it never does.


Those "rich enought o influence the markets of EVE" aren't going to make sure the plex market never crashes. Those are the people who may eventually force a crash.

If you have that much power, what the best course of action would be is to cash out (possibly forcing a crash in doing so), then buy plex back up at lower prices.

A slowly increasing plex price isn't really good for the investor class... big swings in prices give them much more opportunity to profit.
Vash Bloodstone
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2017-06-20 15:58:42 UTC
The price of anything is determined by thousands of different decisions likely made by thousands of different people. The price is the summation of all these different decisions. Anybody who says they know exactly why it's this price or that price is a liar. Some factors may contribute more than others, but at the same time, there are likely many factors unknown and can't be known.



Also, price controls are never the answer, they will likely only lead to shortages, surpluses and more black markets. (real-world trading.)
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#66 - 2017-06-20 16:11:47 UTC
Uthgaard wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Uthgaard wrote:
Ghost training and afk ratting. But mostly ghost training. Due to incursion farming and the rise in afk carrier ratting & VNI orbiting,
ISK faucets exceed ISK sinks, leading to inflation.

When you could afk carriers and people were afking ishtars all over the place the money supply was fine.


That's why it helps to read an entire post and not sperg out before you finish the third sentence. I barely gave the bounties a a passing mention, yet somehow that's what you managed to get hung up on.

Reddit is right. These forums are cancer.


The point is that in order to form an opinion you need to demonstrate that you know what you are talking about. By typing the words "afk carrier ratting" you disproved your own beleifs, because the economy and money supply were fine when afk carrier ratting was possible. Carrier ratting now is an active activity.

I make no claims about the rest of your post, I'm pointing out your self defeating flaw so you won't make it again (those hurt the discussion for those of us who recognize the actual imbalances that need fixing).

TL;DR don't blame me for your screw up or demonstrated lack of knowledge, get it right the 1st time.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#67 - 2017-06-20 16:20:36 UTC
Vash Bloodstone wrote:
The price of anything is determined by thousands of different decisions likely made by thousands of different people. The price is the summation of all these different decisions. Anybody who says they know exactly why it's this price or that price is a liar. Some factors may contribute more than others, but at the same time, there are likely many factors unknown and can't be known.



Also, price controls are never the answer, they will likely only lead to shortages, surpluses and more black markets. (real-world trading.)


This is something CCP seems to understand that others don't. the original purpose of plex was to short circuit the isk sellers, and it largely did. But trying to fix the price could inadvertently open up more opportunities for isk sellers, leading to even worse distortions in the overall economy as those isk sellers find sneaky ways to move and launder and bot isk.

I don't have a problem with the plex prices going up. I'm not a rabid anti-multiboxer (I multibox 2 or 3 accounts at a time myself), but i figure it's good for the game overall to see the 'multi-box empires' (like the dude wiith the 50 ice miners that high sec ice miners love to come here and complain about) start to diminish some.

People already know that it's dumb to fly something they can't afford to lose, in the future I hope people learn not to plex more than they can sub.

This is a rule I follow, the max I can justify paying for EVE is 60 bucks a month, so I keep myself to a max of 4 accounts active and thus don't have to have an anxiety attack every time the plex prices change...
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#68 - 2017-06-20 16:59:47 UTC
Probably also worth noting there is a decent sale on MCT, and MCT costs less than 500 plex normally. Plenty of jobs where it's a waste to have a character on its own account. and I've mainly been too cheap/lazy to set up a bunch of those, but when I saw the MCT sale I went for it.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Keno Skir
#69 - 2017-06-20 18:28:39 UTC
Uthgaard wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Uthgaard wrote:
Ghost training and afk ratting. But mostly ghost training. Due to incursion farming and the rise in afk carrier ratting & VNI orbiting,
ISK faucets exceed ISK sinks, leading to inflation.

When you could afk carriers and people were afking ishtars all over the place the money supply was fine.


That's why it helps to read an entire post and not sperg out before you finish the third sentence. I barely gave the bounties a a passing mention, yet somehow that's what you managed to get hung up on.

Reddit is right. These forums are cancer.


It's just that you can't really AFK a carrier, so you're talking rubbish. I'd say the same thing on Reddit.

These forums are right, your posting is cancer.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2017-06-20 18:32:19 UTC
Voddick wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
back in my day plex was 350 million ISK



I was running incursions during this time at 100 mil/hr. I regret not storing my ISK in PLEX every single day.


Emphasis added.

Gee, why oh why could PLEX prices be going up. Add on CCP making more things accessible via PLEX and everyone is surprised by the upward trend?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#71 - 2017-06-20 18:59:39 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Voddick wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
back in my day plex was 350 million ISK



I was running incursions during this time at 100 mil/hr. I regret not storing my ISK in PLEX every single day.


Emphasis added.

Gee, why oh why could PLEX prices be going up. Add on CCP making more things accessible via PLEX and everyone is surprised by the upward trend?

I mean these days 100m/hr isn't even that fancy

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#72 - 2017-06-20 20:24:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Vash Bloodstone wrote:
The price of anything is determined by thousands of different decisions likely made by thousands of different people. The price is the summation of all these different decisions. Anybody who says they know exactly why it's this price or that price is a liar. Some factors may contribute more than others, but at the same time, there are likely many factors unknown and can't be known.



Also, price controls are never the answer, they will likely only lead to shortages, surpluses and more black markets. (real-world trading.)


This is something CCP seems to understand that others don't. the original purpose of plex was to short circuit the isk sellers, and it largely did. But trying to fix the price could inadvertently open up more opportunities for isk sellers, leading to even worse distortions in the overall economy as those isk sellers find sneaky ways to move and launder and bot isk.

I don't have a problem with the plex prices going up. I'm not a rabid anti-multiboxer (I multibox 2 or 3 accounts at a time myself), but i figure it's good for the game overall to see the 'multi-box empires' (like the dude wiith the 50 ice miners that high sec ice miners love to come here and complain about) start to diminish some.

People already know that it's dumb to fly something they can't afford to lose, in the future I hope people learn not to plex more than they can sub.

This is a rule I follow, the max I can justify paying for EVE is 60 bucks a month, so I keep myself to a max of 4 accounts active and thus don't have to have an anxiety attack every time the plex prices change...


What Vash is describing is not unlike what the Austrian school of economic thought holds when it comes to the market process. That the decisions being made by a large number of individuals is how the price emerges. People like to look for a single reason or even a small number of reasons as for why they are observing something. However, that is rarely the case. Why does each person who buys one or more PLEX buy that PLEX? Why do people sell them? Yes on that last one one argument is ISK, but why. What is the reason for wanting ISK. Different reasons will lead to different behaviors. If I have a big PLEX stock and I need some ISK vs. selling PLEX as part of market speculation.

Further, the order that results from that process is defined by the process of its emergence, IMO. That is, the order one observes after the fact cannot be defined ex ante. This renders the idea of discretionary economic policy rather problematic.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#73 - 2017-06-20 22:12:19 UTC
Linus Gorp wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Why would you buy plex in game anyway? Subbing is significantly cheaper. You can earn enough to sub for a month in 30 minutes IRL. It's hard to say that about the ISK it takes to get a plex.

That's highly dependent on where on lives.


If you live somewhere where you're not earning enough to afford $10/mo, you should be working to improve your life and not playing video games in the first place.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#74 - 2017-06-20 22:26:05 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Why would you buy plex in game anyway? Subbing is significantly cheaper. You can earn enough to sub for a month in 30 minutes IRL. It's hard to say that about the ISK it takes to get a plex.

That's highly dependent on where on lives.


If you live somewhere where you're not earning enough to afford $10/mo, you should be working to improve your life and not playing video games in the first place.
You really are a one trick pony.

Mr Epeen Cool
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#75 - 2017-06-20 22:56:03 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Why would you buy plex in game anyway? Subbing is significantly cheaper. You can earn enough to sub for a month in 30 minutes IRL. It's hard to say that about the ISK it takes to get a plex.

That's highly dependent on where on lives.


If you live somewhere where you're not earning enough to afford $10/mo, you should be working to improve your life and not playing video games in the first place.
You really are a one trick pony.

Mr Epeen Cool


The person who created a character to do nothing but troll the forums for years and years calling someone a one trick pony. Oh the irony...
Al Nomadi
Morawins
#76 - 2017-06-21 08:43:50 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Why would you buy plex in game anyway? Subbing is significantly cheaper. You can earn enough to sub for a month in 30 minutes IRL. It's hard to say that about the ISK it takes to get a plex.

That's highly dependent on where on lives.


If you live somewhere where you're not earning enough to afford $10/mo, you should be working to improve your life and not playing video games in the first place.


Its not always the problem with money itself... Though poor ukrainians (and other eastern folks) do tend to rather PLEX their accounts, than to pay a subscription. For players like me it is more a social problem. I have money and love this game. I payed sub first few months before I built up my economy. But my wife hates it. She really does. If she finds out, that I put a single euro from family budget on it, I will have bigger problem in RL. Cause I do love my wife more than the game and I hate to see her really upset.

It question of balance and the getting fun via making ISK. I understand, that repetitive circling null anomalies or high sec rocks, rediculous 0.01 isking in station trading or similar number vs numbers activity is deadly boring, but I getting ISK in different ways and I get fun in the process. So I get enough ISK to PLEX my accounts and create content outside the station, regradless if it is FW PvP, exploration or high sec PvE of different kind.
Dotaros Kolar
Doomheim
#77 - 2017-06-21 08:45:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Dotaros Kolar
CCP should reroll an obviously wrong decision and activate a price cut for 30 days playtime via plex at lets say 750 million.....

EVERYONE has to have to opportunity to buy 30 days via plex in a "normal"(let's say 14 days) period.....

Around 1.5 billion is simply ridiculous.
Marek Kanenald
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2017-06-21 09:48:46 UTC
Dotaros Kolar wrote:
CCP should reroll an obviously wrong decision and activate a price cut for 30 days playtime via plex at lets say 750 million.....

EVERYONE has to have to opportunity to buy 30 days via plex in a "normal"(let's say 14 days) period.....

Around 1.5 billion is simply ridiculous.


Why is it ridiculous? I made enough money to plex my acount for a year after 6 months on an alpha account.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#79 - 2017-06-21 09:51:10 UTC
Marek Kanenald wrote:
Why is it ridiculous?

Because CCP thinks machariels for 320mil is also ridiculous so they increased prices, they should do the same for PLEX.
Munted Happenstance
Panamanian Tax Evaders
#80 - 2017-06-21 09:51:36 UTC
I think one reason is just simply some guy shoving in a bunch of buy orders for small amounts of plex and hoping that they don't get filled before someone else adjusts their buy order to be more than his.

In other words, semi fake buy orders just to raise the minimum price, and with a market as active as plex he can be pretty confident someone else will "overcut" him.

Of course you could just abuse the "margin trading" skill to have no risk of your order actually being completed as well, but with the fracturing of plex into smaller units you can raise the minimum price this way with a much smaller amount of isk on the table than before the change.

I mean look at the existing buy orders its pretty clear a bunch of them are created for that reason, why would a bunch of different people need exactly 112 units of plex.

Suggestion: stop 'overcutting' these buy orders if you are actually setting buy orders yourself and just let them sell out for awhile, unless of course you profit by the higher prices, in which case, keep doing what your doing peeps.