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Balancing Feedback: Hybrid Turrets

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thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1781 - 2012-01-22 20:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: thoth rothschild
thorax , thorax thorax....

mcum.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&adjacent&kll_id=12209821
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#1782 - 2012-01-22 21:55:08 UTC
thoth rothschild wrote:
thorax , thorax thorax....

mcum.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&adjacent&kll_id=12209821


lol, so you met some of these delusional fools too? I have no idea why anyone suddenly thought a thorax was a viable fleet ship - must have been reading and believing CCP's propaganda Shocked
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1783 - 2012-01-22 22:09:40 UTC
yeah "the hybrid rebalance hoax"
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1784 - 2012-01-22 22:14:01 UTC
Nikuno wrote:
thoth rothschild wrote:
thorax , thorax thorax....

mcum.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&adjacent&kll_id=12209821


lol, so you met some of these delusional fools too? I have no idea why anyone suddenly thought a thorax was a viable fleet ship - must have been reading and believing CCP's propaganda Shocked


i would have liked to see those thorax with 250's with jav in with te's and shield extender with shield rigs... with a nano on for ***** with vespa ecm drones... might have been a diff fight...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1785 - 2012-01-22 22:24:28 UTC
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:

so the drakes get nerfed soon
and u will get a all out minmatar diversity in low and null sec roams

i would say the ccp devs are doing a great job


The only thing I do not understand is why CCP transforms EVE into Winmatar Online.
Anybody has any ideas?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1786 - 2012-01-23 00:58:06 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
this is how the thorax should have been fit... just cuss you killed noobs in them does not mean they blow...

if anything increase base pg so i can bump up to 250's....


[Thorax, Thorax fit]

200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M
200mm Railgun II, Javelin M

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Vespa EC-600 x5

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#1787 - 2012-01-23 10:23:49 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Nikuno wrote:
thoth rothschild wrote:
thorax , thorax thorax....

mcum.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&adjacent&kll_id=12209821


lol, so you met some of these delusional fools too? I have no idea why anyone suddenly thought a thorax was a viable fleet ship - must have been reading and believing CCP's propaganda Shocked


i would have liked to see those thorax with 250's with jav in with te's and shield extender with shield rigs... with a nano on for ***** with vespa ecm drones... might have been a diff fight...


But this is where you miss the point - the vast majority of the players in Eve know that hybrids don't work and so they look for every other possibility and that inevitably brings them back to how ridiculously good projectiles are. So we get projrctiles on Myrmidons, projectiles on Feroxes, projectiles on Abaddons, projectiles in every damned place they shouldn't be !! Make projectiles use cap. One small change. Then things would change; but as it stands right now any weapon system that has every advantage possible in-game will always be chosen over it's rivals, and this is what you see in practice. Best weapons on the best ships, and everything else becomes redundant. If it wasn't for scorch, and scorch alone, even lasers wouldn't be used.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#1788 - 2012-01-23 13:04:56 UTC
Indeed the fact Hybrids use Cap, in the range of energy neutralizers and nosferatus, coupled with slowboating and armor tanking, even if active, are a great penalty that makes projectiles, with the no cap, greater falloff, selectable ammo type better.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#1789 - 2012-01-23 16:22:16 UTC
anyone here who travels to iceland anytime soon?
that person could stop by tallest's place and give him a little kick. or emphasize the importance of a more innovative approach than number crunching.

im still voting for:

testing(means more than one week on testserver and a dialog) an autocannon - blaster-stats swap, making blasters the falloff weapon and ac's the shotguns with ultra short range.
this would of course imply, that further balancing regarding the ships may be necessary.
plus a nice hybrid ammo revamp (maybe separate blaster and rail ammo)

or

rethink the credo of blaster (and rail while one is at it) platforms, and get rid of the arrow in the armored guy's knee.
maybe rethink the old racial credos in general (since the environment has obviously changed?)
involves obviously a lot of balancing of ships.


every thing shorter than something like the ideas above will not be solve the general problem.
but so far nothing new i guess?
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1790 - 2012-01-23 18:17:48 UTC
dont treathen the ccp staff plz

they are still doing agreat job with eve
infact eve is the only game on the market worth playing becouse of its complexity
and mostly adult player base

they could just pay more attention to combat and race balance
so it wouldnt matter what race are u flying and u could chooce them entirely on what shipsdesigns u like most

but its ok to let some steam blow out
becouse things can always be better then they are now Lol
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#1791 - 2012-01-23 18:39:46 UTC
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:
dont treathen the ccp staff plz


i dont think some annoying *poke*age will do some serious harm. and i certainly didnt expect me to be threatening.
after all we need tallest to be .. intact, so that he can do his job Roll

tEcHnOkRaT wrote:

they could just pay more attention to combat and race balance
so it wouldnt matter what race are u flying and u could chooce them entirely on what shipsdesigns u like most


well there should remain some distinguishable features for each race. different flavors. important is, that teh flavorz even out in the end/ on the large scale.
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1792 - 2012-01-23 19:01:17 UTC
it would be a great thing to refink the role of galente
but also the caldari are getting a bit useless, they are no more the kings of pve
only the shield tanking active as well as passive is saving there role
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#1793 - 2012-01-24 10:15:07 UTC
CCP Talest did promise everybody a full, detailed Dev blog on the subject of blasters in Januar.
Lucky for him we still got 1 week left for him to keep that promise.

I'm still a little dissapointed about the T1 ammunition going unnoticed, but hopefully it's just Hilmar forcing the team to focus more on ships than weapons after the first balance because it looks better for CCP.

Also Blasters are actually fine as they are, however autocannons could easily handle a tracking nerf just to give them some kind of disadvantage. AC's huge falloff while having the good tracking really puts a hurt on smaller ships - I nearly lost an interceptor at 25-30km range and full speed transversal the other day to 3 ships with 425mm autocannons...

Pinky
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#1794 - 2012-01-24 13:18:05 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
CCP Talest did promise everybody a full, detailed Dev blog on the subject of blasters in Januar.
Lucky for him we still got 1 week left for him to keep that promise.

I'm still a little dissapointed about the T1 ammunition going unnoticed, but hopefully it's just Hilmar forcing the team to focus more on ships than weapons after the first balance because it looks better for CCP.

Also Blasters are actually fine as they are, however autocannons could easily handle a tracking nerf just to give them some kind of disadvantage. AC's huge falloff while having the good tracking really puts a hurt on smaller ships - I nearly lost an interceptor at 25-30km range and full speed transversal the other day to 3 ships with 425mm autocannons...

Pinky


Yeah true we are waiting for Talest Blog !

I found Talos is OK. Same with BIG BLASTERS on Vindicator Or Mega or Even Domi.

Rails are where they are = nowhere :). Only on NAGA maybe.

Alpha fleets are still the best coz numbers and this game is all about numbers.
I think the best idea is sorry to say coz im also Winmatar pilot but best idea is to nerf Mattar. sad but true

BTW. this topic is record ? 54K and 1000+ posts ? LOL
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1795 - 2012-01-24 13:42:23 UTC
if the matar nerf would come in question then only there range should be nerfd
maybe some of there alpha nothing more

so they are only good in low to middle range
cuz now, even with autocanons they can still hit at 100km distance
and arty can shoot further then rails

i think for the time being best solution would be to nerf traking enchancers fallof bonus to 15%-20%
and to observe what happens in the next few months

if needed some more adjustments should be done after that
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#1796 - 2012-01-24 14:40:14 UTC
Reducing the fall-off on tracking enhancers = Yes plz
(That was even a reply when they specifically asked for feed back on tracking enhancers)

But we also have a long list of other things that CCP never replied to yet:
  • T1 ammo being a mess with weird cap bonuses and too small range increments etc
  • Hybrids should be able to better select thermal or kinetic damage on all ranges.
  • Energy weapons should be able to do the same with EM and thermal.
  • Railguns not being unique enough (especially medium size)
  • Gallente ships needing faster acceleration to their max velocity
  • Minmatar ships needing slower acceleration to their max velocity
  • Autocannons still having too many advantages - Maybe reduce tracking and force expl damage to all ammo
  • Reduce artilley alpha to make the gap between hybrids/energy and projectiles less prominent


This list is ofcourse not everything as we have tons of suggestions and feedback CCP haven't reacted on yet.

It's obviously not as urgent as it has been. Face it the first implementation were actually halfway to be a good solution just lacking the final touch of details. Many people including myself would love to have the subject done so we can go back and enjoy a balanced game where minmatar ships with projectiles have the advantage in fitting reqs, raw damage (ACs), Alpha strike (Arty), damage selection, no cap use, damage projection, Tracking (ACs) and ship bonuses supporting them additionally...

Pinky
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1797 - 2012-01-24 14:49:00 UTC  |  Edited by: tEcHnOkRaT
pinky maybe u should place this list on a new post

and ask for player support to sighn it Smile

and btw the new assoult ships are awesome especialy enyo Big smile

i think its a good thing that the resource prise represents ships usability
but it shouldnt be done only for one shipclass but for the entire shiptree
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#1798 - 2012-01-24 20:09:20 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Nikuno wrote:
thoth rothschild wrote:
thorax , thorax thorax....

mcum.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&adjacent&kll_id=12209821


lol, so you met some of these delusional fools too? I have no idea why anyone suddenly thought a thorax was a viable fleet ship - must have been reading and believing CCP's propaganda Shocked


i would have liked to see those thorax with 250's with jav in with te's and shield extender with shield rigs... with a nano on for ***** with vespa ecm drones... might have been a diff fight...



It wouldn't, yes you could hit for far distances but with uber what 250 dps? ... Roll

Hybrids haven't bean fixed, they have just started to scratch the top of the iceberg we're announcing now for years. They don't listen and what happens?

Wait a few weeks before you start read tears on this very same forum because small blasters are face raping everything.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#1799 - 2012-01-24 20:16:32 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
CCP Talest did promise everybody a full, detailed Dev blog on the subject of blasters in Januar.
Lucky for him we still got 1 week left for him to keep that promise.

I'm still a little dissapointed about the T1 ammunition going unnoticed, but hopefully it's just Hilmar forcing the team to focus more on ships than weapons after the first balance because it looks better for CCP.

Also Blasters are actually fine as they are, however autocannons could easily handle a tracking nerf just to give them some kind of disadvantage. AC's huge falloff while having the good tracking really puts a hurt on smaller ships - I nearly lost an interceptor at 25-30km range and full speed transversal the other day to 3 ships with 425mm autocannons...

Pinky


You are a very lucky guy, if you ever cross my autos cane with your friggi never stay closer than 40km, my barrage can put the misery on you at that distance with not much trouble, under this distance you're just dead but you don't know it yet.

Autocanons with max lvl5 support skills, 2 te's 2 gyros+ship bonus DON'T have ANY issue to track small or large stuff from 0 to max range. Now you want to try against my 220 Vulcans Vagabond? Lol
thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1800 - 2012-01-25 10:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: thoth rothschild
let's be honest.
I do fly what currently is the best cost vs isk solution for my current plans and situation.
the only reason i put more than 2 minutes into this thread is because i wanted to fly soemthin different from time to time.
For younger players this is something they might not support with only < 40 mio sp in their heads.

At least the vindicator is now the untouched king of the hill in station camping warefare. It was before but now for sure :D
After these changes the bad gallente ships still suck and the good ones are nearly op now.

That shows me that the core problem was not related to the weapon platform or ammo itself but that it was tied to the ship hulls AND modules AND tanking system very very closely.

I highly recommend taking a look at tracking enhancers if you only like to touch numbers and still refuse to do more design work.
changing numbers on tracking enhancer might bring the easiest balance you can get in eve but be aware that minmatar might no longer be popular after that. I don't care there's always a king and a new one will follow till the end of time.