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All gameplay of our small group is battle for get fun againist CCP (particularly againist fozzie)
We was wh-group, you nerfed rolling, nerfed statistics, nerfed pve for our targets, you banned our exCEO (qex) for nothing without any investigation, made stupid eviction mechanics. So you destroyed WH fun for us.
We started roll 0-sec on t3 armor searching rorqs/carriers and some homedef fleets and had fun. 0-sec alliances need drop supercarriers or 10-20 carriers to make us run in wh. So what we will have after your patch in june: 1) single rorquals (or small mining groups with equal homedef numbers like kids, badfellas etc) will pass away as class; 2) AFTER t3 nerf big alliances not need drop us with supers, just need jump on 4-5 carriers. So we will lose ANY reason to roll 0-sec and bring our content and fun both for us and for 0-sec citizens.
So what conclusion. After june we need kick most or corpmembers who came for fun and return to wormholes for....nothing.
Hate you, CCP. Hate you fozzie. I would be glad when this game will die, stop brining money for you and finally makes us free.
Sorry for bad english, but i tried to show all my pain

nerf yes !!! i have rorq and they are mining too much- but carriers also make too much isk :P and capitals have too much range- thats wy rorqals are to safe in some regions ....but ccp knows better


what can i tell 2 bil plex = less new players from poor countries like Poland cos 10 dollars its a lot for us- and grinding 2 bill in BS is also too muchof time.... ccp knows better

I've never posted on these update threads before because I took previous Rorq nerfs in stride in the sense that they were a necessary evil but 13 pages in and counting - It's evidently clear that a lot of people are upset and are somewhat justified.



CCP has the right idea in mind, Goons (sorry for throwing you under the bus but its kind of true) primarily (but not exclusively) mine so much ore that the value of mining for both high-sec miners and small null-sec corps is heavily de-valued because ore is worth so little when a null-bloc like Goons can pump out the numbers that they can. It discourages new players from trying out mining because they're stuck with High-sec ores on top of an over-supplied & inflated market.

However, the outstanding concern I have for adding respawn timers like this is that null-blocs with small corps and even smaller mining groups within them aren't going to want to form a fleet to clear a mining anom. It turns mining into a chore for those that enjoy it. Instead of telling people in my corp that I'm posting up boosts in the colossal belt, I'm now asking people to drop what they're doing to mine the remaining bad ores to help force a respawn at a later time.

(we will look at that in depth later in the disccussion)

What made Ice belts good was that they were clustered in such a way that it wasn't overly-difficult to clear them in a Rorq. You'd need to reposition a few, maybe 5 or 6 times depending on how far you want to reach to get all the ice out, but it didn't feel like a chore because the ice had an inherent use to the Rorqual pilot (isotopes and Heavy water). The rorquals had an incentive to mine ice. Because of this, clearing an Ice belt takes enough time and effort that It doesn't feel like a chore much at all.

You have a different story with Ore anomalies. Some miners are industrialists, no doubt. But by and large miners mine because its a relaxing and simple means to make a reasonable amount of isk. If people feel they can afk rat just as easily and make considerably better isk they will tend to go towards that method of isk generation. People don't want to mine bad ores because they aren't worth much, (no doubt due to Rorqual proliferation and multiboxxing)but also because the spread of ores discourages Rorqual use. Typically you'd sit your Rorqual on a large spod rock or strategically between some small rocks and then ideally have your mining barge friends mine the rocks far away from the rorq that are on their own.

If you go to a Small Ore anomaly now you'd find a few scattered medium-sized spod rocks. They are the only reason you'd ever consider bringing in a Rorq here, as the smaller rocks sitting on their own are not worth lighting the indy core. The same situation scales up all the way to the large belts where you will start finding asteroids clustered near each other where it is viable to strategically place the Rorqual instead of just on a single Spod rock.

Where does this leave us then?

Well, we need to evaluate the respawn timers. Is there any expectation that a Rorqual fleet will move into a small or medium belt aiming for anything other than Spod? Not likely (albeit possible for some with lower ADMs but they would be the minority in this example). It means that a timer for smaller anomalies is meaningless for both large and small alliances/corps, and bad for both large and small alliances/corps in regards to the large/enormous/colossal.

(Post contunied 1/3)

(Post continued 3/3)



The next segment of this discussion we will take a look at the ways in which CCP has made a concerted effort to counteract the over-supply of ore in the market currently.

While I personally do not enjoy more excavator nerfs I will try to put aside my worry to actually look at the implications of these changes.



Overall yield reductions from the Rorquals for 9% and 12.5% speed reduction for the excavators. In combination you can expect to get something around 10-15% actual yield loss from excavators due to flight time which will reduce the isk/hr of a Rorqual to something around 120-150mil/hr as opposed to the 150-180mil/hr.

(Rough statistics gained from Spod rocks generating 140-150mil~/hr reducing by ~15% on the low end and something like ABC ores on the high end - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).



The same sort of reduction to ice drones can be seen too but to a higher degree, especially due to speed reductions.


In theory, reducing the speed is good in the sense that you make the excavators more exposed to hostiles and force the Rorquals to reposition more often as a result to ensure their drones' safety. Overall, you don't want Rorquals to be safe all the time and there should be a penatly and risk to over-extending your safe mining range.

I can't speak for how effective it is in practice because I personally haven't attempted to boosh enemy excavators before - But I can say this much - If you watch local and pay attention to intel it is very hard to lose any excavator drones at all. Someone could argue that the speed reduction opens up the window of opportunity for pvpers to kill excavator drones. Currently, on average, 15-25 excavators a day are killed on average just taking a quick glance at Zkill which shows a reasonable rate of loss already (Not suggesting against their killing, just stating fact).

This pretty much covers what I want to say about the nerf itself, but I want to discuss something other people have already pointed out.

Rorqual mining in of itself is not inherently the problem. Yes, there are a lot of Rorquals in New Eden now, and yes they mine quite a lot each day just by themselves. However, the question to ask here is;

To what degree does a singular Rorqual mining ore contribute to the detriment of the EVE economy compared to an array of multiboxxing Rorquals, Mining Barges or Exhumers?

I personally have 3 accounts. One is currently unsubbed and the other two mine often, with one in a rorq and the other in an exhumer. I would consider myself a small miner by comparison to some other people but for the sake of this post I am making reference to the suggestion made in Fozzie's post that only...



Here is one example, myself, alongside many others who are keeping up industry ADMs to continue mining, who expects to be negatively impacted.

Personally, I think multibox mining kills the ore economy. While I techically am a multibox miner myself, there are vast swathes of new accounts injected into t1 mining barges being run by a singular controller.

CCP need to compare how much ore is mined by a single Rorqual compared to a Multibox fleet of them or a multibox fleet of t1 barges. In the current meta, a Rorqual does not mine as much as people think it does and this new nerf serves to cut it even further to the point where two fully boosted hulks will mine near to par with the Rorqual. I understand that some people think the Rorq should've been relegated to Fleet boosting purely and mining to only a tiny degree, but this is the world we live in now and this is the meta we live in now. We have Rorqual mining and we have excavators and Rorqual mining is here to stay like it or not.

Finally, and it rots me to the core to say it, I don't think CCP wants to change the meta around multiboxxing. The change in the distribution of ores means that you're repositioning more in your rorqual compared to a mining barge, the nerfs to the rorqual mean a barge will get the job done eventually. But ultimately, and most pressingly;

More multiboxxing accounts = more subscriptions = more $ for CCP. Its a hard truth to swallow, sure, but the route CCP has taken comes across as if they subtly want to continue this trend. Why would CCP ever want to cull on multiboxxers? They're CCP's best clients paying (either with isk or IRL$) the most compared to the average player.

All I have to say is that I think CCP is taking the nerf route that will not fix the core of the problem present with the Ore economy currently, and need to take a hard look at how multibox mining is effecting the game. The respawn timers are a step in the right direction and I have hope that CCP will continue to look towards improving the game in this regard.


(End Post)

CCP when are you going to figure out you can't control a player driven economy that's open to speculation. I have seen you try this tactic many times since 2006 and fail every time. How many more times can you continue to suck the joy out of the hands of the player base before people go somewhere else? Do you and the staff at CCP games even bother to play EVE to see if its fun? Between the current Sov mechanic, citadel mechanic, lets not forget the jump mechanic and the constant hammering to any ship that might be considered overpowered to some and fine for others. Very soon players are going to realize the game is not worth the effort because its no longer entertaining. Just remember I pay for a subscription to be entertained and I can take my money someplace else.

You know Fozzie, people are not mad at the stat's, they are mad at the continued nerfing, people invest time and money, and your inability to balance before launch shows a complete disregard for the people that fund your dream job, When you release a patch or a ship update it shouldnt ever require 4 nerfs with a threat of more.

You and by association CCP, show zero regard for the people and the community.

With how fat the 'excavator' drones are take a look at the ehp of the drones so that the speed reduction doesn't allow for rats to decimate them at the current cost of 1B isk each but still allow for pvpers to kill them. Though I guess having rats chew through all the drones would fix your ore supply issues.....

This looks like a hard nerf to the poor goons and pL folks but if you guys keep nerfing the rorqual and its drones more people might get upset and not mine.
I don't think this nerf is going to do too much in the big picture concidering the huge numbers of players that are in nullsec.

To soften the effects of nerfing the teeth out of the rorqual you could maybe add new raw resource types that can be mined to build new stuff?

i am very salty about this, you guys made rorqs too stronk, limit them to 2 excavators please or i quit

so basically you are saying miners are too lazy to move to the neighbouring system to keep mining so you making this change... seems legit