EVE General Discussion

Roulette is an RNG game of chance.

Someone attentive blocking your access to your assets, your purchase, or for purposes of pickup/delivery, nigh instantly, is not RNG, its deliberate and systemic.

Yes, I agree that is a problem, if the idea was diverting trade/occupation to player structures.

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The best choice of action thus, is never, ever dealing with a player structure that you do not own.

In and of itself, that is well and fine, but it raises questions of why even bother with player structures that you do not own in the first place, to the conclusion that player structures are personal homes that nobody rational would ever use, except yourself as its owner.

Paraphrasing and CCPs hype aside, its clear that the existing system will not result in that stated result.

Anyone with any sense should avoid player structures for purchase/sales/storage/pickup/delivery.

Its a bad risk that can severely bite you in the butt just from a few clicks by the structure owner.

I guess we have a new Golden Rule now.
-Never deal with a player structure you dont own.

TLDR:
Dont buy/sell/store/pickup/deliver @ player owned structures, unless you own it.

They can lock you out in a matter of seconds, and you will have to spend inordinate effort to get your stuff out again.
If you contract to an alt or someone else to get your stuff out, they can block all access without standing.
If you attempt blow it up, you must run a long, expensive campaign and they may unanchor.
If you succeed to blow it up, they lose only the structure, their assets are safe, and you have to pick your stuff up somewhere else inconvenient.

Its a crap deal.

Avoid player structures you dont own.

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EVE 2017:

"Not my structure? Not my business!"

Well just read the whole thread, with the exception of the trolls that I have blocked, but got the normal flavour from those quoting them. I find it highly amusing that I have had such an impact on Jenn aSnide who dislikes my balance suggestions so much, I can imagine him holding his breath until he goes blue in the face with upset. I should point out to this troll that I have not been involved in any Anti-ganking activity for 3 months and 21 days, instead I have been blowing up ships belonging to one of the better null sec PvP alliances in fleet and small gang combat. I guess that makes me an AG player lol...

baltec1 stated that it was content, what he means by that is that some poor sap with no counter is going to pay for other peoples content, same as bumping freighters and same with this scam. Great content as always isn't it...


Personally I think that people should just not haul to player owned stations of any sort unless they have a very close relationship, for a while I was doing some hauling on my alt for people with no collateral, just my word as my bond and that was the only way I would move stuff to player owned stations. Sorry Citadel owners...

I think the real issue goes back to the ability to fix a massive collateral on a heap of junk, if the contract showed the value of the items carried against the collateral then the system would be self regulating, though of course that could be abused with some effort. Then people could assess risk there and then and not lose their shirt and end up with a full load of Trit for 8bn and those scammers with a brain will be adding in those useless high value items because they can, but at least that is effort...

Gimme Sake and Salvos had a very interesting exchange and I did like the focus on the RMT part, something that I had actually began to suspect myself due to the misuse of the collateral system on courier contracts. Anyway, had fun reading this thread, and that post by baltec1 on content, lol still makes me chuckle that...

You too are being subjective.

Anti ganking, scamming, RMT... is NOT the topic of this thread.


The topic of this thread is a certain mechanic (or lack off) introduced with the citadel patch that renders the intended (or some of the intended) purpose of player owned structures non functional. If you have any subjective observation regarding the mentioned please strip it off examples of valid game play elements you may dislike and consider unethical or unfair. We're not discussing EvE's nature but mechanics. It's reather simple, do they function as intended or not?

Sake, it's impossible to know if the mechanics work as intended since we cannot know CCP's intentions and so how do you evaluate it?

Imo scamming promotes a general lack of content due to mistrust, more than the 'content' the scam itself provides, especially since the scam will only work once unless the victim needs multiple examples to learn a lesson.

So, about an hour ago I gave someone 4 million ISK because he just needed that to buy something and would give it back 'soon' :D
I guess I won't see those 4 millions back any time.

Some people cling to the idea that you can fix stupid. They never let that idea go for some reason. Oh, and people do not read signs at all. Right after college I went to work for a Hospital as a security guard. The ER had 2 entrances, one automatic for people/patients and a big entrance for ambulance crews and patients on stretchers accessible by keypad only. the Ambulance entrance had BIG RED LETTERS on it saying "not an entrance".

I spent a year and a half watching people who weren't even in a hurry walk right up to that door and stop, turn around , look at me and ask me what was wrong with the door...while standing next to the BIG RED LETTERS that said "not an entrance".


This is why EVE online is now chocked full to the gills with safety measures (actual safeties, and pop ups telling you to not do things, etc) and yet people still can't figure it out. I experienced this just last night, I had some stuff from corp accidentally delivered to my alt so I opened up the inventory so I could put the stuff in a corp hangar I don't have access too.

I got a pop up telling me that if I put it in there I won't be able to get it back out. WELL DUH, you mean to tell me that the corp hangar WITH THE BIG BED X OVER IT is a place where I can't get stuff back from if I put it there? What form of injustice be this???
Of course, the real injustice is that this pop up can only exist because multiple people complained over the years that they put stuff in hangers without checking to see if they could get it out when they wanted so CCP needs to do something about that..

We hope for such big things and progress for humankind when at the same time those humans can't figure out a video game...

You can buy from the market as well. The citadel owner can lock you out and freeze your assets. The only sollution to avoid it is not to buy from Citadels.

I will bite, not subjective, merely observational on the response that you had from some people, for example Jenn was aiming that point about an AG position at me and Herzog, not sure why it was important to Jenn, but he is rather crazy. I merely commented on the potential RMT angle of this scam as being something that I had wondered about.

I have always focused on game balance, I prefer not to get into unethical in a game where you can chose to be good , bad or both as the mood takes you, even unfair is a bit naff as a concept, but game balance is very important.

I suggested that the real issue here is the lack of information on the real value of the goods within the courier contract, if there was a calculated value placed on the items to enable the hauler to compare against the collateral then there would be no real issue. I am very aware that smart players will manipulate it using margin trading on certain blue items, but that requires effort and for me that game balance is about right.. With that change the issue would become less stark because it would not be the vast sums scammed that we have now and therefore less value in doing it, but still allowing smart people to scam and maintain the current mechanics around citadel docking.

As people have quite rightly suggested there is currently no counter, I suggested a way to check the value of the contract so the hauler only has the difference between the real value of the cargo and the collateral and he can chose to take that risk. Easy fix in my opinion.