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Breaking News: Citadel/Plex Contracting.

First post
Author
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#421 - 2017-05-30 20:02:04 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Perhaps you consider making lists with dishonest players EvE gameplay but I do not.


Have you heard of network effects? Such a list is kind of like that. The more people who see the list the more effective it becomes. So yeah, it is a type of game play. But hey, go ahead and keep limiting your options. Doesn't harm me any....and in a small way may benefit me.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#422 - 2017-05-30 20:02:54 UTC
Are people still moaning about a mechanic that has been in the game for years simply because it now affects hisec?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#423 - 2017-05-30 20:03:57 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Are people still moaning about a mechanic that has been in the game for years simply because it now affects hisec?



Pretty much.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#424 - 2017-05-30 20:10:00 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Are people still moaning about a mechanic that has been in the game for years simply because it now affects hisec?



Pretty much.
meh, I have only one thing to say to that.

HTFU

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Mollie Mormon
Doomheim
#425 - 2017-05-30 20:22:29 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Risk - reward, dude.

Not Applicable
Khara Hirl
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#426 - 2017-05-30 22:34:37 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Are people still moaning about a mechanic that has been in the game for years simply because it now affects hisec?




OP here:

No, that's not accurate. I can see where you might see the two as mutually exclusive but they are not High sec is not like null and visa versa, also Citadels and Engineering Complexes, unlike Player owned Starbases(that these buildings replaced) can have a contract specifically delivered to them, while players could of had docking permissions removed in Sov space, it was well known to everyone not to take a courier contract out there unless you were blue, that mechanic wasn't used to scam players specifically, it was to keep the enemy from docking in your space.

Due to high security space containing most of the playerbase, and it's where all the business of the game takes places, haulers and contractors alike are here in plenty allowing a higher opportunity to scam people. The mechanics of a citadel to lock players out is necessary however it was also used to prevent people from using your stations to deliver a courier contract (Contract is the key word here)

The argument here is that players who own a citadel who engage in a courier contract with a hauler, should not have the option to prevent that player from delivering the package, short of destroying his vessel while he or she takes the package to the intended destination, the hauler should not necessarily need to dock at your station ( to prevent people from using your stuffs) but a mail box type system outside of citadels and plexes is absolutely necessary, if you're looking to introduce more people to more content, one scam from a hauling contract can, will and does often times mean the end of a players career in eve online.

If a player wants to haul through low sec or null sec, the risks are clear, however a player hauling to a citadel anywhere shouldn't be prevented by a game mechanic from completing it, unless that game mechanic happens to be a welping number of players destroying you on your way to your destination, or you choose to keep the courier contract for yourself.

While eve is a tough game, and we want to keep it niche if changes are not made to make the game better, and more safe for players they will exit the game and the game uptil Alpha/Omega clones was dying, and we can't deny that fact.

I'm not asking for everything to be easy because honestly at the end of the day, these things are what make eve great however, you have a flip side a true abuse of game mechanics, all the warnings are in game sure but that doesn't make it ok. I feel the warnings were put into the game because they were being lazy or were not sure what to do about courier contracts.

I would like to see a change to this system, by allowing delivery to any citadel or station honestly that is marked on the courier contract, after all a contract is not a contract if both parties do not honor it.



Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#427 - 2017-05-30 22:56:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Khara Hirl wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Are people still moaning about a mechanic that has been in the game for years simply because it now affects hisec?




OP here:

No, that's not accurate. I can see where you might see the two as mutually exclusive but they are not High sec is not like null and visa versa, also Citadels and Engineering Complexes, unlike Player owned Starbases(that these buildings replaced) can have a contract specifically delivered to them, while players could of had docking permissions removed in Sov space, it was well known to everyone not to take a courier contract out there unless you were blue, that mechanic wasn't used to scam players specifically, it was to keep the enemy from docking in your space.


Translation: "Even though CCP warned me with the red lettered warning with an exclamation mark, I ignored it/overlooked it and took a courier contract to a citadel and got scammed like people get scammed with NS outposts and conquerable stations. Naturally CCP should change this because I'm mad."

Oh, and yeah, that mechanic was used specifically to scam players via courier contracts before citadels.

And yes, you are asking for it to be easier. You are specifically asking to be protected from your own foolishness/ignorance.

Is there anything else you need your hand held while doing?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Hevymetal
POT Corp
#428 - 2017-05-30 23:04:01 UTC
Khara Hirl wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Are people still moaning about a mechanic that has been in the game for years simply because it now affects hisec?




OP here:

No, that's not accurate. I can see where you might see the two as mutually exclusive but they are not High sec is not like null and visa versa, also Citadels and Engineering Complexes, unlike Player owned Starbases(that these buildings replaced) can have a contract specifically delivered to them, while players could of had docking permissions removed in Sov space, it was well known to everyone not to take a courier contract out there unless you were blue, that mechanic wasn't used to scam players specifically, it was to keep the enemy from docking in your space.

Due to high security space containing most of the playerbase, and it's where all the business of the game takes places, haulers and contractors alike are here in plenty allowing a higher opportunity to scam people. The mechanics of a citadel to lock players out is necessary however it was also used to prevent people from using your stations to deliver a courier contract (Contract is the key word here)

The argument here is that players who own a citadel who engage in a courier contract with a hauler, should not have the option to prevent that player from delivering the package, short of destroying his vessel while he or she takes the package to the intended destination, the hauler should not necessarily need to dock at your station ( to prevent people from using your stuffs) but a mail box type system outside of citadels and plexes is absolutely necessary, if you're looking to introduce more people to more content, one scam from a hauling contract can, will and does often times mean the end of a players career in eve online.

If a player wants to haul through low sec or null sec, the risks are clear, however a player hauling to a citadel anywhere shouldn't be prevented by a game mechanic from completing it, unless that game mechanic happens to be a welping number of players destroying you on your way to your destination, or you choose to keep the courier contract for yourself.

While eve is a tough game, and we want to keep it niche if changes are not made to make the game better, and more safe for players they will exit the game and the game uptil Alpha/Omega clones was dying, and we can't deny that fact.

I'm not asking for everything to be easy because honestly at the end of the day, these things are what make eve great however, you have a flip side a true abuse of game mechanics, all the warnings are in game sure but that doesn't make it ok. I feel the warnings were put into the game because they were being lazy or were not sure what to do about courier contracts.

I would like to see a change to this system, by allowing delivery to any citadel or station honestly that is marked on the courier contract, after all a contract is not a contract if both parties do not honor it.





But as it has been pointed out, the mechanic to disallow docking for courier contract scams has been around for ages.

Be thankful it's not low or null in which case insult would be added to injury by destroying your ship with it's insured cargo, then your pod, then a good laugh by the contract holder getting immediate payout (not having to wait the full duration of the contract) plus whatever loot he gets off your wreck.

Think of it as a lesson learned (maybe the hard way) but none the less, a lesson you will not soon forget. Welcome to Eve :)

My humble advice for what it's worth is check your docking rights to the station in question BEFORE accepting the contract.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#429 - 2017-05-30 23:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Khara Hirl wrote:
OP here: No, that's not accurate.
Actually it is accurate. Which part of "people are moaning about a mechanic has existed for years because it now affects hisec" is inaccurate?

Quote:
I can see where you might see the two as mutually exclusive but they are not High sec is not like null and visa versa, also Citadels and Engineering Complexes, unlike Player owned Starbases(that these buildings replaced) can have a contract specifically delivered to them, while players could of had docking permissions removed in Sov space, it was well known to everyone not to take a courier contract out there unless you were blue, that mechanic wasn't used to scam players specifically, it was to keep the enemy from docking in your space.
I fail to see the difference, revocation of docking rights for a hisec citadel is no different from revocation of docking rights for outposts, as is the solution to the "problem"; don't take contracts to a player owned structure of any description unless you trust the owners (the equivalent of being blue). Removing docking rights serves the same purpose in null as is does elsewhere, it allows the owner to control who has the use of their facilities.

I beg to differ on it not being used to screw people in null, there's always some dumbass whose greed overcomes their caution in every part of Eve.

Quote:
Due to high security space containing most of the playerbase, and it's where all the business of the game takes places, haulers and contractors alike are here in plenty allowing a higher opportunity to scam people. The mechanics of a citadel to lock players out is necessary however it was also used to prevent people from using your stations to deliver a courier contract (Contract is the key word here)

The argument here is that players who own a citadel who engage in a courier contract with a hauler, should not have the option to prevent that player from delivering the package, short of destroying his vessel while he or she takes the package to the intended destination, the hauler should not necessarily need to dock at your station ( to prevent people from using your stuffs) but a mail box type system outside of citadels and plexes is absolutely necessary, if you're looking to introduce more people to more content, one scam from a hauling contract can, will and does often times mean the end of a players career in eve online.
There's already a warning in place to inform people that the destination may be inaccessible to them, if people ignore that warning it's entirely on them when it comes back to bite them in the arse.

It's called accepting responsibility for your choices and actions, and any consequences that come from them.

Why shouldn't they be able to prevent someone from delivering a package by means of denying docking rights?
They own the structure, they have control over who uses it. Do you seriously thing that CCP didn't see the current situation coming?

Quote:
If a player wants to haul through low sec or null sec, the risks are clear, however a player hauling to a citadel anywhere shouldn't be prevented by a game mechanic from completing it, unless that game mechanic happens to be a welping number of players destroying you on your way to your destination, or you choose to keep the courier contract for yourself.
The risks are clear in hisec too, CCP made sure of that by including a warning about citadels possibly being inaccessible.

Quote:
While eve is a tough game, and we want to keep it niche if changes are not made to make the game better, and more safe for players they will exit the game and the game uptil Alpha/Omega clones was dying, and we can't deny that fact.

I'm not asking for everything to be easy because honestly at the end of the day, these things are what make eve great however, you have a flip side a true abuse of game mechanics, all the warnings are in game sure but that doesn't make it ok. I feel the warnings were put into the game because they were being lazy or were not sure what to do about courier contracts.

I would like to see a change to this system, by allowing delivery to any citadel or station honestly that is marked on the courier contract, after all a contract is not a contract if both parties do not honor it.
You miss the attraction of Eve, the fact that it's not safe is a great part of it, and yes we can deny that Eve was dying before the introduction of clone states. In fact we can say that for over a decade, when the game was arguably less safe than it is today, it was one of the very few MMO's that saw a year on year increase in subscription numbers.

What you claim to be fact is actually opinion, the difference between your opinion and mine is that I have the numbers to back mine up, whereas yours appears to have been pulled out of a hat.

Nor is denying people docking rights an abuse of game mechanics, it's intended gameplay as evidenced by the fact that CCP put in an option to do exactly that. I'd argue that the warnings were put in place to warn people of the possibilities, not because CCP are lazy.

A contract that isn't honoured by both parties is still a contract, it's just a one that failed to be completed; failed contracts have been in the game for as long as contracts have existed, if someone is willing to put up collateral to cover a contract that they're considering taking on, I would hope that they read the thing at least thrice before accepting, and that they make sure that the chances of not completing it are minimal.

Red Frog don't appear to have any problems delivering to hisec citadels, because they've minimised the risk of failure by coming to an arrangement with some of the owners and will only deliver to those citadels, and have friends that will burn down the citadels of people that dishonour that arrangement. It's a conflict driver.

Action and reaction; that my friend, is what Eve is all about.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Wanda Fayne
#430 - 2017-05-30 23:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Wanda Fayne
Hevymetal wrote:


My humble advice for what it's worth is check your docking rights to the station in question BEFORE accepting the contract.


Logical answer.
+1


But it won't prevent the contract being invalidated when the citadel owner revokes your access IMMEDIATELY after accepting the contract.

That's the issue I have with it.

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#431 - 2017-05-31 00:02:13 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:



Do you realize that as long as NPC stations offer better conditions than player owned structures the market will never be able to make the desired transition?



Most things are now built in citadels, it already happening.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#432 - 2017-05-31 00:04:55 UTC
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Hevymetal wrote:


My humble advice for what it's worth is check your docking rights to the station in question BEFORE accepting the contract.


Logical answer.
+1


But it won't prevent the contract being invalidated when the citadel owner revokes your access IMMEDIATELY after accepting the contract.

That's the issue I have with it.


By that point you have fallen for the scam.

Its rather easy to sniff these scams out, people have not had an issue with this scam for well over a decade.
Wanda Fayne
#433 - 2017-05-31 00:35:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Hevymetal wrote:


My humble advice for what it's worth is check your docking rights to the station in question BEFORE accepting the contract.


Logical answer.
+1


But it won't prevent the contract being invalidated when the citadel owner revokes your access IMMEDIATELY after accepting the contract.

That's the issue I have with it.


By that point you have fallen for the scam.

Its rather easy to sniff these scams out, people have not had an issue with this scam for well over a decade.


The mechanic may be old, but the structure is new and the location is new.

CCP's stated goals are already presented in this thread, I won't rehash them. If this is what CCP intended (or sanctions) with the Citadels, then add it to the FAQ.

And +1 for not saying "stupid"...Blink I appreciate your candid posts.

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#434 - 2017-05-31 00:47:34 UTC
Wanda Fayne wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Hevymetal wrote:


My humble advice for what it's worth is check your docking rights to the station in question BEFORE accepting the contract.


Logical answer.
+1


But it won't prevent the contract being invalidated when the citadel owner revokes your access IMMEDIATELY after accepting the contract.

That's the issue I have with it.


By that point you have fallen for the scam.

Its rather easy to sniff these scams out, people have not had an issue with this scam for well over a decade.


The mechanic may be old, but the structure is new and the location is new.

CCP's stated goals are already presented in this thread, I won't rehash them. If this is what CCP intended (or sanctions) with the Citadels, then add it to the FAQ.

And +1 for not saying "stupid"...Blink I appreciate your candid posts.


The delivery time frame set on the contract has passed without the package being delivered

its already there in the FAQ.
Khara Hirl
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#435 - 2017-05-31 01:30:45 UTC
You guys are too focused on the whole "Check contracts, don't deliver to citadels, read the red warning" You're obsessing over those facts, but what you're not recognizing is that perpetuating the deliberate use of mechanics to scam someone is killing the game. Most of you won't even come close to carrying the hauls that we do, nor will you ever understand the incredible responsibility that comes with being the blood that keeps eve alive, with out hauling the game would die and prices would skyrocket all over new eden costing you the player hours of unnecessary travel, all WE are asking is that if a person has a contract to a citadel that was put in to replace a POS that we be able to deliver to it.

There are dozens of ways people can scam in this game, and fixing this issue isn't going to break the "this is eve HDTFU" style of the game, but it will make your player base grow knowing that the time they invest and money they invest is safe to the degree that they know if they take a contract to a citadel save from being ganked they can deliver it. Why is that so much to ask for?

This whole "It's been this way in eve forever" is garbage, citadels have not, and you simply can not compare them to player owned stations in sov territory, something 80% of the population of this game never even sees or docks into believe it or not. However citadels are everywhere in the thousands.

If you're against haulers having the ability to deliver a package to a citadel (even if not docked) then you're clearly an abuser/user of the game mechanic and you scam and you want to keep your way of life. However there is a bigger way of life, the haulers way of life. Something CCP and the community does not want to trifle with, with out us, you would have nothing in Jita to buy, so toss us a damn bone and fix this issue.

I've said what I wanted to say and won't be responding further, thank you for reading.

OP OUT.
Defecanda
Ice Mining Boys
#436 - 2017-05-31 01:57:27 UTC
The balance is off on this one. Broken mechanic perception is greater than "scam" dynamic. CCP should invest in alternative solution that OP mentioned. +1.

Example:

PROBLEM: Citadel courier contracts can be accepted and then docking rights revoked.
SOLUTION: EVE players never courier to citadels.

PROBLEM: Jita chat is cancer.
SOLUTION: No one chats in Jita.

[i][b]CCP Zulu.....      Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. [/b](i like to steal sigs)[/i]

Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#437 - 2017-05-31 02:44:16 UTC
Khara Hirl wrote:
You guys are too focused on the whole "Check contracts, don't deliver to citadels, read the red warning" You're obsessing over those facts, but what you're not recognizing is that perpetuating the deliberate use of mechanics to scam someone is killing the game. Most of you won't even come close to carrying the hauls that we do, nor will you ever understand the incredible responsibility that comes with being the blood that keeps eve alive, with out hauling the game would die and prices would skyrocket all over new eden costing you the player hours of unnecessary travel, all WE are asking is that if a person has a contract to a citadel that was put in to replace a POS that we be able to deliver to it.


Its been like this for like a year now, this isn't even the first thread about it, CCP is aware of it, the sky hasn't fallen. ie all of the things you claim have already proven not to come to pass.

Quote:


There are dozens of ways people can scam in this game, and fixing this issue isn't going to break the "this is eve HDTFU" style of the game, but it will make your player base grow knowing that the time they invest and money they invest is safe to the degree that they know if they take a contract to a citadel save from being ganked they can deliver it. Why is that so much to ask for?



I looked at lots of scammed haulers researching my opinions for this thread, I only remember one that even appeared to stop hauling AND he lost his collateral to a shadow cartel players high->lowsec 750,000m3 contract NOT a citadel contract.

Quote:



This whole "It's been this way in eve forever" is garbage, citadels have not, and you simply can not compare them to player owned stations in sov territory, something 80% of the population of this game never even sees or docks into believe it or not. However citadels are everywhere in the thousands.



The point to citadels is to introduce trust based gameplay and reduce reliance on indestructible NPC structures that you can essentially use without even acknowledging the existence of other players. Assessing a contract is not something you need do in space on a harsh real time schedule. You are not avoiding a decloaker on a nullsec gate, or losing a fight because you took 2 seconds to launch drones and the other player got theirs out immediately.

In fact EVE hasn't been this way forever, and thats the point. This is a better EVE. Most of what you are hauling has probably been the materials to build citadels, since they've basically propped up the hauling, minerals and salvage market for a year now.

Quote:


If you're against haulers having the ability to deliver a package to a citadel (even if not docked) then you're clearly an abuser/user of the game mechanic and you scam and you want to keep your way of life. However there is a bigger way of life, the haulers way of life. Something CCP and the community does not want to trifle with, with out us, you would have nothing in Jita to buy, so toss us a damn bone and fix this issue.

I've said what I wanted to say and won't be responding further, thank you for reading.

OP OUT.


I'm all for haulers being able to legitimately sort risk and reward in their work, and for the best haulers to make more isk when doing so. I'm also for legitimate hauler contractors who do things like ensure their contracts are deliverable, being able to avoid being charged too much of a premium, and get their contracts filled fast, ie being able to reap the rewards of being trustable.

Embrace the citadel its here to stay.

Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#438 - 2017-05-31 02:48:05 UTC
Defecanda wrote:
The balance is off on this one. Broken mechanic perception is greater than "scam" dynamic. CCP should invest in alternative solution that OP mentioned. +1.

Example:

PROBLEM: Citadel courier contracts can be accepted and then docking rights revoked.
SOLUTION: EVE players never courier to citadels.

PROBLEM: Jita chat is cancer.
SOLUTION: No one chats in Jita.


Day trading scam mechanic is the same. Why should courier contracts have perfect trustable delivery when market buy orders cannot be trusted to fill.


Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#439 - 2017-05-31 03:48:29 UTC
Khara Hirl wrote:
You guys are too focused on the whole "Check contracts, don't deliver to citadels, read the red warning" You're obsessing over those facts, but what you're not recognizing is that perpetuating the deliberate use of mechanics to scam someone is killing the game.


If I had a nickel every time somebody said this I could PLEX all my accounts in perpetuity.

Where do you get this? There are tons of scams and they have been going on since the game started, more or less.

Khara Hirl wrote:
Most of you won't even come close to carrying the hauls that we do, nor will you ever understand the incredible responsibility that comes with being the blood that keeps eve alive, with out hauling the game would die and prices would skyrocket all over new eden costing you the player hours of unnecessary travel, all WE are asking is that if a person has a contract to a citadel that was put in to replace a POS that we be able to deliver to it.


Funny, Red Frog has no issues with this, or if they do they don't come here whining and they move on from it and note that citadel, person and maybe even the corp and alliance (if there is one) will be blacklisted.

The contract was a scam by definition. It was never intended to be delivered. Ever.

Khara Hirl wrote:
There are dozens of ways people can scam in this game, and fixing this issue isn't going to break the "this is eve HDTFU" style of the game, but it will make your player base grow knowing that the time they invest and money they invest is safe to the degree that they know if they take a contract to a citadel save from being ganked they can deliver it. Why is that so much to ask for?


Everyone who has been butthurt over something and wants to get that something changed writes this. "Change this and droves of players will come to the game." Most players do not want to play space trucker on line. So your claim is highly doubtful

Khara Hirl wrote:
This whole "It's been this way in eve forever" is garbage, citadels have not, and you simply can not compare them to player owned stations in sov territory, something 80% of the population of this game never even sees or docks into believe it or not. However citadels are everywhere in the thousands.


You are missing the point. The point is that these contracts have always sat there in the public courier contracts section and people either fall for the scam and learn from it and move on, or they spot it as a scam and move on. Now, the only thing is the location of the destination. That is all that has changed.

Khara Hirl wrote:
If you're against haulers having the ability to deliver a package to a citadel (even if not docked) then you're clearly an abuser/user of the game mechanic and you scam and you want to keep your way of life. However there is a bigger way of life, the haulers way of life. Something CCP and the community does not want to trifle with, with out us, you would have nothing in Jita to buy, so toss us a damn bone and fix this issue.


Oh yes, the old "If you don't agree with me you must be using this [insert mechanic player is butthurt about] and you are a bad person." I have no interest in scamming. But, I also understand the core philosophy of the game which is that you are responsible for your own actions and safety in game. Mess up and you may very well find yourself in a bad situation.

And please, spare us the "if haulers leave what will you do then!?!?!" Nothing, because you won't. Well you might, but not all the haulers. Organizing a large diverse group that has little cohesiveness is very difficult. Organizing a small group that is cohesive or at least has a well defined set of interests is much easier to organize. So you won't organize, you won't do anything or than carry out our courier contracts.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#440 - 2017-05-31 05:02:39 UTC
Khara Hirl wrote:
You guys are too focused on the whole "Check contracts, don't deliver to citadels, read the red warning" You're obsessing over those facts, but what you're not recognizing is that perpetuating the deliberate use of mechanics to scam someone is killing the game. Most of you won't even come close to carrying the hauls that we do, nor will you ever understand the incredible responsibility that comes with being the blood that keeps eve alive, with out hauling the game would die and prices would skyrocket all over new eden costing you the player hours of unnecessary travel, all WE are asking is that if a person has a contract to a citadel that was put in to replace a POS that we be able to deliver to it.

There are dozens of ways people can scam in this game, and fixing this issue isn't going to break the "this is eve HDTFU" style of the game, but it will make your player base grow knowing that the time they invest and money they invest is safe to the degree that they know if they take a contract to a citadel save from being ganked they can deliver it. Why is that so much to ask for?

This whole "It's been this way in eve forever" is garbage, citadels have not, and you simply can not compare them to player owned stations in sov territory, something 80% of the population of this game never even sees or docks into believe it or not. However citadels are everywhere in the thousands.

If you're against haulers having the ability to deliver a package to a citadel (even if not docked) then you're clearly an abuser/user of the game mechanic and you scam and you want to keep your way of life. However there is a bigger way of life, the haulers way of life. Something CCP and the community does not want to trifle with, with out us, you would have nothing in Jita to buy, so toss us a damn bone and fix this issue.

I've said what I wanted to say and won't be responding further, thank you for reading.

OP OUT.



Be advised you are arguing with dysfunctional people who always take the "HTFU route" even for content they couldn't care less about. These forums are part of their game. Nothing will convince them and the more you try the more they get off on being contrarian.
You made your point: crap scam mechanic with no counter. That's all others will need to know to decide to play something else.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!