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How many more players must we lose to bullying

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Erica Dusette
Division 13
#581 - 2017-04-03 01:38:39 UTC
I recently tried to peacefully setup a citadel and about a dozen bullies tried to kill it.

I was all alone and vulnerable Sad

But the bullies didn't care, it's like winning>fairness or something. So I called in a bigger group of bullies who bullied the original bullies to death. Now we saved the citadel, but I'm not sure who the real bullies are anymore. I mean sure, it was the original bullies home not mine but I'd been there bullying people for way longer, minus time inactive. It's so confusing, especially since the original bullies have moved out now leaving me to be the only bully by default. So did I bully them with my choice to fight or did they choose to be victims by not fighting back anymore? We desperately need answers to these moral quandaries.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#582 - 2017-04-03 01:41:46 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Aaron wrote:


This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.



Speaking from a real life point of view I think a very harsh virtual reality such as Eve is an interesting way for a games company to make money. It still has lots of appeal to people like me who like the difficulty level at maximum.

I believe the original design of Eve belonged to a man named Thorolfur Beck who was the majority share holder. It is said that there was some difficulty with his desire to control everything and had difficulty dealing with the stress of creating one of the first MMO's. He left CCP before beta was released.

Would be interesting to read his take on this. Who knows maybe CCP and this Beck person may start working together on Eve again..


You quoted yourself?!?
Hisec shenanigans are a minor thing that has at every change encouraged people to leave hisec. Crimewatch is a baffling ordeal of a card trick. Hisec wars are mostly for interrupting null competitor's logistics, the rest is just to help stay awake picking off bads. If there was a null jita and/or stuff was made out there hisec violence would be less fun and less profitable.

Aaron wrote:
Would be interesting to read his take on this. Who knows maybe CCP and this Beck person may start working together on Eve again..


Thorolfur pls go?




Mostly nonsense. Highsec wars are an early design that predates null sec entities and its theme park mechanics. They were intended as just another aspect of PvP play. It might pay for you to disintangle your thinking of everything in game being tightly coupled with current null sec mechanics. Be a free thinker like me.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#583 - 2017-04-03 01:47:24 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
I recently tried to peacefully setup a citadel and about a dozen bullies tried to kill it.

I was all alone and vulnerable Sad

But the bullies didn't care, it's like winning>fairness or something. So I called in a bigger group of bullies who bullied the original bullies to death. Now we saved the citadel, but I'm not sure who the real bullies are anymore. I mean sure, it was the original bullies home not mine but I'd been there bullying people for way longer, minus time inactive. It's so confusing, especially since the original bullies have moved out now leaving me to be the only bully by default. So did I bully them with my choice to fight or did they choose to be victims by not fighting back anymore? We desperately need answers to these moral quandaries.


You wouldn't have been bullied into bullying the bullies who bullied you post your bullying of them thus bullying your hand into hiring the bullies to bully your bullied bullies had EvE not bullied all the bullies into the act of bullying in the first place. Everyone in EvE starts out as a victim.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#584 - 2017-04-03 01:54:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Everyone in EvE starts out as a victim.


Sorry, no. That's not true. The only 'victims' of EVE are those that choose to be victims. Many of us have enjoyed the game profusely since day one and I wouldn't call enjoying something the definition of being a victim. I'm also getting quite sick and tired of other people telling me I should feel like some kind of a victim. I'm sorry but I am not the weakling you want me to be, and as long as you keep trying to bring people down to your level, you aren't spending any effort trying to bring yourself up to theirs, and you'll remain forever a victim of your own self-inflicted limitations. That's a problem with you, not EVE.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#585 - 2017-04-03 02:13:09 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Everyone in EvE starts out as a victim.


Sorry, no. That's not true. The only 'victims' of EVE are those that choose to be victims. Many of us have enjoyed the game profusely since day one and I wouldn't call enjoying something the definition of being a victim. I'm also getting quite sick and tired of other people telling me I should feel like some kind of a victim. I'm sorry but I am not the weakling you want me to be, and as long as you keep trying to bring people down to your level, you aren't spending any effort trying to bring yourself up to theirs, and you'll remain forever a victim of your own self-inflicted limitations. That's a problem with you, not EVE.

LOL! Why so serious?

There's plenty to rant about in this game without selectively quoting punchlines to get angry about.

Mr Epeen Cool
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#586 - 2017-04-03 02:17:04 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Everyone in EvE starts out as a victim.


Sorry, no. That's not true. The only 'victims' of EVE are those that choose to be victims. Many of us have enjoyed the game profusely since day one and I wouldn't call enjoying something the definition of being a victim. I'm also getting quite sick and tired of other people telling me I should feel like some kind of a victim. I'm sorry but I am not the weakling you want me to be, and as long as you keep trying to bring people down to your level, you aren't spending any effort trying to bring yourself up to theirs, and you'll remain forever a victim of your own self-inflicted limitations. That's a problem with you, not EVE.

Really so you started day 1 of EvE on the front foot racked up a bunch of kills without experiencing the usual learning curve that others experience?

Me I went exploring in low and was the victim of Zombie corp on the first gate way back when ships appeared uncloaked and lockable for the 30 seconds it took to load the system.

Since then I've managed to make others my victims with about a 7/1 solo kill death ratio but am still occasionally a victim myself.

I think you perhaps take the game a little too seriously and you're missing out on a lot of fun if you're sitting on a pure green killboard as your number 1 priority.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#587 - 2017-04-03 02:21:35 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I think it's time to get real. A player can take the time to learn about ganking and all the variables that affect it such as hostile fleet size, EHP....and so on.

Plain and simple, you will be targeted if you have freight value of over 1 billion. If you keep the value below 1 billion isk then you won't even have to consider all the variables of a gank situation.

Form some kind of group where you can contact freight pilots to relay this message. The ones that don't listen or bother to investigate anything will be punished because the mechanics are purposely set that way.

This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.

Stop acting as if there are no counters to freight ganking when there blatantly are.

This is garbage. It was not programmed this way. When freighters came out you needed at least 30 battleships now you only need 12 stealth bombers. When freighters came out there were no tags, you had to grind sec back which was very time consuming. When freighters came out you couldn't do (at the time battleship damage) with cheap frigates.

Bitches will whine that battleships insurance meant using battleships was cheaper but no, even with full insurance you still lost the value of platinum insurance. 30 plat insurances for tier 3 battleships was around the cost of 60 stealth bombers.

Then you factor in the massive jump in isk generation today vs then.

It was never programmed this way, this is all about mudflation and powercreep turning ganking into the easiest form of PvP with the smallest cost (apart from frig v frig) with the least risk and significant payoff. Its out of wack with the rest of EvE. EvE WoW, EvE Light or whatever.




The gankers know this. That's why they gaslight with "ganking keeps getting nerfed" but they pretend they never got the buffs that made is more possible than in the past. They do this deliberately.

It's very transparent now. Are the people behind the game so stupid as to keep falling for it?
Or are they complicit?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#588 - 2017-04-03 02:23:49 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
I recently tried to peacefully setup a citadel and about a dozen bullies tried to kill it.

I was all alone and vulnerable Sad

But the bullies didn't care, it's like winning>fairness or something. So I called in a bigger group of bullies who bullied the original bullies to death. Now we saved the citadel, but I'm not sure who the real bullies are anymore. I mean sure, it was the original bullies home not mine but I'd been there bullying people for way longer, minus time inactive. It's so confusing, especially since the original bullies have moved out now leaving me to be the only bully by default. So did I bully them with my choice to fight or did they choose to be victims by not fighting back anymore? We desperately need answers to these moral quandaries.




Highly probable the bullies that came after you and the bullies you hired are the same people.


Next time don't give content to bullies.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#589 - 2017-04-03 02:35:12 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I think it's time to get real. A player can take the time to learn about ganking and all the variables that affect it such as hostile fleet size, EHP....and so on.

Plain and simple, you will be targeted if you have freight value of over 1 billion. If you keep the value below 1 billion isk then you won't even have to consider all the variables of a gank situation.

Form some kind of group where you can contact freight pilots to relay this message. The ones that don't listen or bother to investigate anything will be punished because the mechanics are purposely set that way.

This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.

Stop acting as if there are no counters to freight ganking when there blatantly are.

This is garbage. It was not programmed this way. When freighters came out you needed at least 30 battleships now you only need 12 stealth bombers. When freighters came out there were no tags, you had to grind sec back which was very time consuming. When freighters came out you couldn't do (at the time battleship damage) with cheap frigates.

Bitches will whine that battleships insurance meant using battleships was cheaper but no, even with full insurance you still lost the value of platinum insurance. 30 plat insurances for tier 3 battleships was around the cost of 60 stealth bombers.

Then you factor in the massive jump in isk generation today vs then.

It was never programmed this way, this is all about mudflation and powercreep turning ganking into the easiest form of PvP with the smallest cost (apart from frig v frig) with the least risk and significant payoff. Its out of wack with the rest of EvE. EvE WoW, EvE Light or whatever.




The gankers know this. That's why they gaslight with "ganking keeps getting nerfed" but they pretend they never got the buffs that made is more possible than in the past. They do this deliberately.

It's very transparent now. Are the people behind the game so stupid as to keep falling for it?
Or are they complicit?

I have tried to figure that out - why would an mmo company choose to hobble themselves to a play style that is seen by the wider mmo community as toxic, abusive, full of greifers?

My personal experience of being followed by a player for 4 months straight swearing and calling me a pedophile and worse in local without CCP intervening and then that same person getting me warned by CCP for saying F in local caused me to stop my two boys playing. Wasn't just that either, the language and conversations in market hubs and alliance / corp chat is disgusting and sometimes illegal at least here in Aussie.

I think it comes down to job insecurity at CCP / the fact that CCP has close RL relationships with many players / a number of CCP employees have worked for or do work for CCP and an entrenched culture of EvE is Harsh while being completely blind as to why EvE has failed to continue growing being that same culture.


CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#590 - 2017-04-03 02:38:23 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I think it's time to get real. A player can take the time to learn about ganking and all the variables that affect it such as hostile fleet size, EHP....and so on.

Plain and simple, you will be targeted if you have freight value of over 1 billion. If you keep the value below 1 billion isk then you won't even have to consider all the variables of a gank situation.

Form some kind of group where you can contact freight pilots to relay this message. The ones that don't listen or bother to investigate anything will be punished because the mechanics are purposely set that way.

This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.

Stop acting as if there are no counters to freight ganking when there blatantly are.

This is garbage. It was not programmed this way. When freighters came out you needed at least 30 battleships now you only need 12 stealth bombers. When freighters came out there were no tags, you had to grind sec back which was very time consuming. When freighters came out you couldn't do (at the time battleship damage) with cheap frigates.

Bitches will whine that battleships insurance meant using battleships was cheaper but no, even with full insurance you still lost the value of platinum insurance. 30 plat insurances for tier 3 battleships was around the cost of 60 stealth bombers.

Then you factor in the massive jump in isk generation today vs then.

It was never programmed this way, this is all about mudflation and powercreep turning ganking into the easiest form of PvP with the smallest cost (apart from frig v frig) with the least risk and significant payoff. Its out of wack with the rest of EvE. EvE WoW, EvE Light or whatever.




The gankers know this. That's why they gaslight with "ganking keeps getting nerfed" but they pretend they never got the buffs that made is more possible than in the past. They do this deliberately.

It's very transparent now. Are the people behind the game so stupid as to keep falling for it?
Or are they complicit?

I have tried to figure that out - why would an mmo company choose to hobble themselves to a play style that is seen by the wider mmo community as toxic, abusive, full of greifers?

My personal experience of being followed by a player for 4 months straight swearing and calling me a pedophile and worse in local without CCP intervening and then that same person getting me warned by CCP for saying F in local caused me to stop my two boys playing. Wasn't just that either, the language and conversations in market hubs and alliance / corp chat is disgusting and sometimes illegal at least here in Aussie.

I think it comes down to job insecurity at CCP / the fact that CCP has close RL relationships with many players / a number of CCP employees have worked for or do work for CCP and an entrenched culture of EvE is Harsh while being completely blind as to why EvE has failed to continue growing being that same culture.





I do recall a mention of an anti-ganking summit on Reddit and CSM being involved but know of nobody in AG who were actually contacted about it.

Yeah it's that bad. I'll continue to save my money.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#591 - 2017-04-03 02:42:10 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Everyone in EvE starts out as a victim.


Sorry, no. That's not true. The only 'victims' of EVE are those that choose to be victims. Many of us have enjoyed the game profusely since day one and I wouldn't call enjoying something the definition of being a victim. I'm also getting quite sick and tired of other people telling me I should feel like some kind of a victim. I'm sorry but I am not the weakling you want me to be, and as long as you keep trying to bring people down to your level, you aren't spending any effort trying to bring yourself up to theirs, and you'll remain forever a victim of your own self-inflicted limitations. That's a problem with you, not EVE.

Really so you started day 1 of EvE on the front foot racked up a bunch of kills without experiencing the usual learning curve that others experience?

Me I went exploring in low and was the victim of Zombie corp on the first gate way back when ships appeared uncloaked and lockable for the 30 seconds it took to load the system.

Since then I've managed to make others my victims with about a 7/1 solo kill death ratio but am still occasionally a victim myself.

I think you perhaps take the game a little too seriously and you're missing out on a lot of fun if you're sitting on a pure green killboard as your number 1 priority.


I think the point was that being a victim is a mindset. I have lost many ships, but not since the earliest days was I ever a victim. Loosing a ship,;or loosing a fight doesn't make one a victim. Choosing to take that loss personally, and blaming others rather than taking responsibility and enjoying it as just a part of the game does.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#592 - 2017-04-03 02:48:42 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
I recently tried to peacefully setup a citadel and about a dozen bullies tried to kill it.

I was all alone and vulnerable Sad

But the bullies didn't care, it's like winning>fairness or something. So I called in a bigger group of bullies who bullied the original bullies to death. Now we saved the citadel, but I'm not sure who the real bullies are anymore. I mean sure, it was the original bullies home not mine but I'd been there bullying people for way longer, minus time inactive. It's so confusing, especially since the original bullies have moved out now leaving me to be the only bully by default. So did I bully them with my choice to fight or did they choose to be victims by not fighting back anymore? We desperately need answers to these moral quandaries.


You wouldn't have been bullied into bullying the bullies who bullied you post your bullying of them thus bullying your hand into hiring the bullies to bully your bullied bullies had EvE not bullied all the bullies into the act of bullying in the first place. Everyone in EvE starts out as a victim.

But I didn't hire any bullies, they were just friends who don't like seeing other friends bullied, so they bullied the bullies and really are only actual bullies anyway because there was more of them than the original bullies. I didn't even suicide gank anyone, in fact I died in the melee, killed by the bullies for trying not to be a victim but also becoming a bully because we still won?

Help Sad

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#593 - 2017-04-03 02:52:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Everyone in EvE starts out as a victim.


Sorry, no. That's not true. The only 'victims' of EVE are those that choose to be victims. Many of us have enjoyed the game profusely since day one and I wouldn't call enjoying something the definition of being a victim. I'm also getting quite sick and tired of other people telling me I should feel like some kind of a victim. I'm sorry but I am not the weakling you want me to be, and as long as you keep trying to bring people down to your level, you aren't spending any effort trying to bring yourself up to theirs, and you'll remain forever a victim of your own self-inflicted limitations. That's a problem with you, not EVE.

Really so you started day 1 of EvE on the front foot racked up a bunch of kills without experiencing the usual learning curve that others experience?

Me I went exploring in low and was the victim of Zombie corp on the first gate way back when ships appeared uncloaked and lockable for the 30 seconds it took to load the system.

Since then I've managed to make others my victims with about a 7/1 solo kill death ratio but am still occasionally a victim myself.

I think you perhaps take the game a little too seriously and you're missing out on a lot of fun if you're sitting on a pure green killboard as your number 1 priority.


I think the point was that being a victim is a mindset. I have lost many ships, but not since the earliest days was I ever a victim. Loosing a ship,;or loosing a fight doesn't make one a victim. Choosing to take that loss personally, and blaming others rather than taking responsibility and enjoying it as just a part of the game does.

Yes I know but then not being a victim is also the acceptance of occasionally being a victim. A lot of these so called hardcore elites are afraid of being seen as victims and it's that fear that makes them into victims. In some cases it's so bad you see people here on forums being completely blind to any other point of view they'll argue black is white in desperation not to concede a point because conceding it makes their blurred IRL / in game persona vulnerable.

In short victims come in all shapes and sizes and is not just confined to ganker / ganked - Erotica / Mittens being a prime example of that.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#594 - 2017-04-03 02:54:57 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I think it's time to get real. A player can take the time to learn about ganking and all the variables that affect it such as hostile fleet size, EHP....and so on.

Plain and simple, you will be targeted if you have freight value of over 1 billion. If you keep the value below 1 billion isk then you won't even have to consider all the variables of a gank situation.

Form some kind of group where you can contact freight pilots to relay this message. The ones that don't listen or bother to investigate anything will be punished because the mechanics are purposely set that way.

This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.

Stop acting as if there are no counters to freight ganking when there blatantly are.

This is garbage. It was not programmed this way. When freighters came out you needed at least 30 battleships now you only need 12 stealth bombers. When freighters came out there were no tags, you had to grind sec back which was very time consuming. When freighters came out you couldn't do (at the time battleship damage) with cheap frigates.

Bitches will whine that battleships insurance meant using battleships was cheaper but no, even with full insurance you still lost the value of platinum insurance. 30 plat insurances for tier 3 battleships was around the cost of 60 stealth bombers.

Then you factor in the massive jump in isk generation today vs then.

It was never programmed this way, this is all about mudflation and powercreep turning ganking into the easiest form of PvP with the smallest cost (apart from frig v frig) with the least risk and significant payoff. Its out of wack with the rest of EvE. EvE WoW, EvE Light or whatever.




The gankers know this. That's why they gaslight with "ganking keeps getting nerfed" but they pretend they never got the buffs that made is more possible than in the past. They do this deliberately.

It's very transparent now. Are the people behind the game so stupid as to keep falling for it?
Or are they complicit?

I have tried to figure that out - why would an mmo company choose to hobble themselves to a play style that is seen by the wider mmo community as toxic, abusive, full of greifers?

My personal experience of being followed by a player for 4 months straight swearing and calling me a pedophile and worse in local without CCP intervening and then that same person getting me warned by CCP for saying F in local caused me to stop my two boys playing. Wasn't just that either, the language and conversations in market hubs and alliance / corp chat is disgusting and sometimes illegal at least here in Aussie.

I think it comes down to job insecurity at CCP / the fact that CCP has close RL relationships with many players / a number of CCP employees have worked for or do work for CCP and an entrenched culture of EvE is Harsh while being completely blind as to why EvE has failed to continue growing being that same culture.



EVE is known to be very niche and ruthless and harsh
That's why people love it... That's why most play it... And that's why CCP sells the game as is, and not like some dumb other mmo lmao

HTFU or there's always WOW and HelloKittyOnline hahahah

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#595 - 2017-04-03 03:00:24 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
I recently tried to peacefully setup a citadel and about a dozen bullies tried to kill it.

I was all alone and vulnerable Sad

But the bullies didn't care, it's like winning>fairness or something. So I called in a bigger group of bullies who bullied the original bullies to death. Now we saved the citadel, but I'm not sure who the real bullies are anymore. I mean sure, it was the original bullies home not mine but I'd been there bullying people for way longer, minus time inactive. It's so confusing, especially since the original bullies have moved out now leaving me to be the only bully by default. So did I bully them with my choice to fight or did they choose to be victims by not fighting back anymore? We desperately need answers to these moral quandaries.




Highly probable the bullies that came after you and the bullies you hired are the same people.


Next time don't give content to bullies.

No way! The original bullies were really bad, they were only bullies because I was outnumbered 12-1. The batphone bullies were much more skilled and numerous in number, making them much more bully-bullies but because they were saving a helpless me it means their bullying isn't actual bullying? I'm so lost.

Hang on. Just remembered all this happened in wormhole space. Pretty sure bullies are just a highsex thing? If so then false alarm, I'm getting all confused over nothing.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#596 - 2017-04-03 03:10:45 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Everyone in EvE starts out as a victim.


Sorry, no. That's not true. The only 'victims' of EVE are those that choose to be victims. Many of us have enjoyed the game profusely since day one and I wouldn't call enjoying something the definition of being a victim. I'm also getting quite sick and tired of other people telling me I should feel like some kind of a victim. I'm sorry but I am not the weakling you want me to be, and as long as you keep trying to bring people down to your level, you aren't spending any effort trying to bring yourself up to theirs, and you'll remain forever a victim of your own self-inflicted limitations. That's a problem with you, not EVE.


Really so you started day 1 of EvE on the front foot racked up a bunch of kills without experiencing the usual learning curve that others experience?


You're expecting me and everyone else to conform to your definition of enjoyment. I wasn't a victim of anything, but I'm also not a complete moron that couldn't figure the game out, nor am I an impatient **** that expected to be godking of EVE from day one. I'm sure if people feel like victims of something, they can speak up about it for themselves. I know I'm more than capable, so I'll thank you not to infantalise me in such a way. If you can't handle the fact that a lot of people actually enjoy learning this game, even from day one, that really is your own personal problem.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#597 - 2017-04-03 03:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Mr Epeen wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Everyone in EvE starts out as a victim.


Sorry, no. That's not true. The only 'victims' of EVE are those that choose to be victims. Many of us have enjoyed the game profusely since day one and I wouldn't call enjoying something the definition of being a victim. I'm also getting quite sick and tired of other people telling me I should feel like some kind of a victim. I'm sorry but I am not the weakling you want me to be, and as long as you keep trying to bring people down to your level, you aren't spending any effort trying to bring yourself up to theirs, and you'll remain forever a victim of your own self-inflicted limitations. That's a problem with you, not EVE.

LOL! Why so serious?

There's plenty to rant about in this game without selectively quoting punchlines to get angry about.

Mr Epeen Cool


I take what I'm passionate about seriously, your criticism notwithstanding. It's like this guy thinks I care what he thinks or something. The fact is, too many people lately fling the word 'victim' about as if they can speak for anyone but themselves, and they need to be brought down a peg on that mark. It happens all the time on these forums, with the veritable 'won't somebody think of the children!' thread appearing near on twice a week at the very least.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#598 - 2017-04-03 03:23:57 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I think it's time to get real. A player can take the time to learn about ganking and all the variables that affect it such as hostile fleet size, EHP....and so on.

Plain and simple, you will be targeted if you have freight value of over 1 billion. If you keep the value below 1 billion isk then you won't even have to consider all the variables of a gank situation.

Form some kind of group where you can contact freight pilots to relay this message. The ones that don't listen or bother to investigate anything will be punished because the mechanics are purposely set that way.

This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.

Stop acting as if there are no counters to freight ganking when there blatantly are.

This is garbage. It was not programmed this way. When freighters came out you needed at least 30 battleships now you only need 12 stealth bombers. When freighters came out there were no tags, you had to grind sec back which was very time consuming. When freighters came out you couldn't do (at the time battleship damage) with cheap frigates.

Bitches will whine that battleships insurance meant using battleships was cheaper but no, even with full insurance you still lost the value of platinum insurance. 30 plat insurances for tier 3 battleships was around the cost of 60 stealth bombers.

Then you factor in the massive jump in isk generation today vs then.

It was never programmed this way, this is all about mudflation and powercreep turning ganking into the easiest form of PvP with the smallest cost (apart from frig v frig) with the least risk and significant payoff. Its out of wack with the rest of EvE. EvE WoW, EvE Light or whatever.




The gankers know this. That's why they gaslight with "ganking keeps getting nerfed" but they pretend they never got the buffs that made is more possible than in the past. They do this deliberately.

It's very transparent now. Are the people behind the game so stupid as to keep falling for it?
Or are they complicit?

I have tried to figure that out - why would an mmo company choose to hobble themselves to a play style that is seen by the wider mmo community as toxic, abusive, full of greifers?

My personal experience of being followed by a player for 4 months straight swearing and calling me a pedophile and worse in local without CCP intervening and then that same person getting me warned by CCP for saying F in local caused me to stop my two boys playing. Wasn't just that either, the language and conversations in market hubs and alliance / corp chat is disgusting and sometimes illegal at least here in Aussie.

I think it comes down to job insecurity at CCP / the fact that CCP has close RL relationships with many players / a number of CCP employees have worked for or do work for CCP and an entrenched culture of EvE is Harsh while being completely blind as to why EvE has failed to continue growing being that same culture.



EVE is known to be very niche and ruthless and harsh
That's why people love it... That's why most play it... And that's why CCP sells the game as is, and not like some dumb other mmo lmao

HTFU or there's always WOW and HelloKittyOnline hahahah

That's a very emotionally defensive response.

Its also attempting to obfuscate obvious flaws by claiming those flaws as benefits when quite clearly they are flaws.

Do you honestly believe that the perception whether real or imagined that the community of EvE is toxic, abusive and are greifers is beneficial to the health of EvE or CCPs bottom line?

Do you honestly believe that CCP places the culture of EvE as a higher priority than profits?

Do you honestly believe that Santa Claus is currently in the North Pole with a bunch of Elves making you a full scale model of a Ragnorok. He didn't even receive your letter because you're bad. You're not getting ****.

The other two are even more certainly false.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#599 - 2017-04-03 03:24:40 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Everyone in EvE starts out as a victim.


Sorry, no. That's not true. The only 'victims' of EVE are those that choose to be victims. Many of us have enjoyed the game profusely since day one and I wouldn't call enjoying something the definition of being a victim. I'm also getting quite sick and tired of other people telling me I should feel like some kind of a victim. I'm sorry but I am not the weakling you want me to be, and as long as you keep trying to bring people down to your level, you aren't spending any effort trying to bring yourself up to theirs, and you'll remain forever a victim of your own self-inflicted limitations. That's a problem with you, not EVE.

LOL! Why so serious?

There's plenty to rant about in this game without selectively quoting punchlines to get angry about.

Mr Epeen Cool


I take what I'm passionate about seriously, your criticism notwithstanding. It's like this guy thinks I care what he thinks or something. The fact is, too many people lately fling the word 'victim' about as if they can speak for anyone but themselves, and they need to be brought down a peg on that mark. It happens all the time on these forums, with the veritable 'won't somebody think of the children!' thread appearing near on twice a week at the very least.



Everything you said after "its like this guy thinks I care what he thinks"... almost every word... was an indictment that you do, in fact, care what they think. And that it makes you angry.
Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#600 - 2017-04-03 03:29:58 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I think it's time to get real. A player can take the time to learn about ganking and all the variables that affect it such as hostile fleet size, EHP....and so on.

Plain and simple, you will be targeted if you have freight value of over 1 billion. If you keep the value below 1 billion isk then you won't even have to consider all the variables of a gank situation.

Form some kind of group where you can contact freight pilots to relay this message. The ones that don't listen or bother to investigate anything will be punished because the mechanics are purposely set that way.

This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.

Stop acting as if there are no counters to freight ganking when there blatantly are.

This is garbage. It was not programmed this way. When freighters came out you needed at least 30 battleships now you only need 12 stealth bombers. When freighters came out there were no tags, you had to grind sec back which was very time consuming. When freighters came out you couldn't do (at the time battleship damage) with cheap frigates.

Bitches will whine that battleships insurance meant using battleships was cheaper but no, even with full insurance you still lost the value of platinum insurance. 30 plat insurances for tier 3 battleships was around the cost of 60 stealth bombers.

Then you factor in the massive jump in isk generation today vs then.

It was never programmed this way, this is all about mudflation and powercreep turning ganking into the easiest form of PvP with the smallest cost (apart from frig v frig) with the least risk and significant payoff. Its out of wack with the rest of EvE. EvE WoW, EvE Light or whatever.




The gankers know this. That's why they gaslight with "ganking keeps getting nerfed" but they pretend they never got the buffs that made is more possible than in the past. They do this deliberately.

It's very transparent now. Are the people behind the game so stupid as to keep falling for it?
Or are they complicit?

I have tried to figure that out - why would an mmo company choose to hobble themselves to a play style that is seen by the wider mmo community as toxic, abusive, full of greifers?

My personal experience of being followed by a player for 4 months straight swearing and calling me a pedophile and worse in local without CCP intervening and then that same person getting me warned by CCP for saying F in local caused me to stop my two boys playing. Wasn't just that either, the language and conversations in market hubs and alliance / corp chat is disgusting and sometimes illegal at least here in Aussie.

I think it comes down to job insecurity at CCP / the fact that CCP has close RL relationships with many players / a number of CCP employees have worked for or do work for CCP and an entrenched culture of EvE is Harsh while being completely blind as to why EvE has failed to continue growing being that same culture.



EVE is known to be very niche and ruthless and harsh
That's why people love it... That's why most play it... And that's why CCP sells the game as is, and not like some dumb other mmo lmao

HTFU or there's always WOW and HelloKittyOnline hahahah



In so many years since that became a meme, can we as MMO players really truly not come up with something a hair more original than "hurr Hello Kitty Online, herp"?

2008 called. They said they want someone to make a new phrase.
Oh, and uhh... "Yes we can" or something.