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How many more players must we lose to bullying

First post
Author
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#561 - 2017-04-02 20:25:22 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I don't want anything nerfed,

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6895483#post6895483
"In effect all that needs to happen is that bumping a freighter like that is not possible and I would be fine with it"

Yes, you do.

You're always changing your story. Every time you're called out, every time your arguments are countered, you claim you never argued it in the first place.

If you're not interested in a constructive discussion, just don't bother posting.


Yes I do what, I explained my view on bumping and why it does not fit with Eve in this thread, also my views change over time because things change, people change, the game changes. OK I want to nerf bumping, doe sthat help, my focus is on the simple fact that this easy mode is not Eve is a hard game, simplistic perhaps but that is the point, I listen to many gankers say this is a hard game and they have a mechanic that hands them easy rich kills on a plate. This is not Eve as far as I am concerned.

182,580 EHP is not a big amount, in a perfect situation 12 Catalysts can do it, gankers have got over 30, you told me it is too hard, I disagreed, when I pointed out an example taht was a partial kill as it was one that had already been hit once you deemed my post wrong but I had already done the numbers.

I do not think that the tank needs adjusting at this point, because I think that the benefits of this are too lucrative, and that is where the 132m or 264m if double teh number of Catalysts strikes home, risk and reward, they would spend perhaps 264m ISK to get a 3.0bn drop. That is too much and too hard, seriously no. So I was not talking ISK tanking I was talking risk as compared to reward.

Anyway you remind me of Jonah, are you his alt?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#562 - 2017-04-02 20:31:12 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
indeed you are

Why?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#563 - 2017-04-02 20:35:35 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Yes I do what, I explained my view on bumping and why it does not fit with Eve in this thread

I don't like bumping either, but at the moment, it keeps freighter ganking balanced. If it goes, and I hope it does, a counter balance would need to be introduced to ensure freighters don't become even safer.

Quote:
182,580 EHP is not a big amount, in a perfect situation 12 Catalysts can do it,

And I've pointed out that these numbers are only relevant when everything falls into the gankers' laps. What happens when the freighter pilot is actually competent? You might be able to kill them, but I'm telling you that you won't get away with it with only 12 catalysts.

Quote:
gankers have got over 30, you told me it is too hard

Where? I've pointed out that you're cherry picking best case scenarios for the gankers and don't seem to be offering any argument about when the freighter pilot actually tries to protect himself.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#564 - 2017-04-02 20:50:15 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Yes I do what, I explained my view on bumping and why it does not fit with Eve in this thread

I don't like bumping either, but at the moment, it keeps freighter ganking balanced. If it goes, and I hope it does, a counter balance would need to be introduced to ensure freighters don't become even safer.

Quote:
182,580 EHP is not a big amount, in a perfect situation 12 Catalysts can do it,

And I've pointed out that these numbers are only relevant when everything falls into the gankers' laps. What happens when the freighter pilot is actually competent? You might be able to kill them, but I'm telling you that you won't get away with it with only 12 catalysts.

Quote:
gankers have got over 30, you told me it is too hard

Where? I've pointed out that you're cherry picking best case scenarios for the gankers and don't seem to be offering any argument about when the freighter pilot actually tries to protect himself.


I have to go, but the simple answer is that there will be more idiots running three cargo expanders without bumping in my opinion.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#565 - 2017-04-02 21:01:07 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Yes I do what, I explained my view on bumping and why it does not fit with Eve in this thread

I don't like bumping either, but at the moment, it keeps freighter ganking balanced. If it goes, and I hope it does, a counter balance would need to be introduced to ensure freighters don't become even safer.

Quote:
182,580 EHP is not a big amount, in a perfect situation 12 Catalysts can do it,

And I've pointed out that these numbers are only relevant when everything falls into the gankers' laps. What happens when the freighter pilot is actually competent? You might be able to kill them, but I'm telling you that you won't get away with it with only 12 catalysts.

Quote:
gankers have got over 30, you told me it is too hard

Where? I've pointed out that you're cherry picking best case scenarios for the gankers and don't seem to be offering any argument about when the freighter pilot actually tries to protect himself.


I have to go, but the simple answer is that there will be more idiots running three cargo expanders without bumping in my opinion.

There will always be idiots that get themselves killed. Why are we trying to cater the game to them?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#566 - 2017-04-02 21:12:20 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I don't want anything nerfed,

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6895483#post6895483
"In effect all that needs to happen is that bumping a freighter like that is not possible and I would be fine with it"

Yes, you do.

You're always changing your story. Every time you're called out, every time your arguments are countered, you claim you never argued it in the first place.

If you're not interested in a constructive discussion, just don't bother posting.




You do realize that you are the one in position of self-entitlement of the sort that only highsec carebears are accused of having, right?

There was once a time when our bad guys had the caliber of watching out for that kind of behavior and going out of their way to avoid it.

I'm sorry, why am I self entitled? Or have you simply misquoted?



indeed you are

Buff duck EHP. But then, you like that you can hunt them easily.

Talk about entitlement.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#567 - 2017-04-02 21:13:26 UTC
Now I'm confuzzled.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#568 - 2017-04-02 21:26:40 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
There will always be idiots that get themselves killed. Why are we trying to cater the game to them?


I answered the question in terms of competence and you threw a stupid one liner at me, if you are not able to work out what that means that is your issue.

Competent people will fit tank or have friends and inertias etc. and that will actually make a difference, and there will be stupid people who will go full cargo and have no help and feel safe doing it and taht is their fault. My feeling is that those who are competent will be more difficult with no bumping and this rewards competent play, currently it makes very little difference.

Do I get another smart ass one liner for that one?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#569 - 2017-04-02 21:43:33 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Competent people will fit tank or have friends and inertias etc. and that will actually make a difference, and there will be stupid people who will go full cargo and have no help and feel safe doing it and taht is their fault.

Agreed.

Quote:
My feeling is that those who are competent will be more difficult with no bumping and this rewards competent play, currently it makes very little difference.

Wrong. Competent players enjoy an immense success rate. Red Frog are boasting a what, 99.75% success rate or the like? I think it's fair to say that difference exists.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#570 - 2017-04-02 22:02:52 UTC
I got some new plants for my fish aquarium today Smile

@lunettelulu7

Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#571 - 2017-04-02 23:29:08 UTC
I think it's time to get real. A player can take the time to learn about ganking and all the variables that affect it such as hostile fleet size, EHP....and so on.

Plain and simple, you will be targeted if you have freight value of over 1 billion. If you keep the value below 1 billion isk then you won't even have to consider all the variables of a gank situation.

Form some kind of group where you can contact freight pilots to relay this message. The ones that don't listen or bother to investigate anything will be punished because the mechanics are purposely set that way.

This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.

Stop acting as if there are no counters to freight ganking when there blatantly are.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#572 - 2017-04-02 23:56:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Aaron wrote:


This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.



Speaking from a real life point of view I think a very harsh virtual reality such as Eve is an interesting way for a games company to make money. It still has lots of appeal to people like me who like the difficulty level at maximum.

I believe the original design of Eve belonged to a man named Thorolfur Beck who was the majority share holder. It is said that there was some difficulty with his desire to control everything and had difficulty dealing with the stress of creating one of the first MMO's. He left CCP before beta was released.

Would be interesting to read his take on this. Who knows maybe CCP and this Beck person may start working together on Eve again..

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#573 - 2017-04-03 00:32:29 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Nothing to do with the ISK ratio

"12 Catalysts worth 11m each total value 132m"

Nice backtrack.

Quote:
and all to do with you saying it was too hard without bumping

Without bumping, they'd have to contend with sentry DPS. Catalysts don't fare too well under that kind of pressure. In addition, their proximity to gate would mean greater chance of opportunists interfering with the gank or loot. No matter which way you look at it, more firepower and more work would be required to land the profitable kill.


That was detailed to show the value, so you want to go oh dear Dracvlad is talking about ISK tanking, no I am not.

I repeat, the ship has 182,580 EHP which can be taken down at a pinch by 12 Catalyst in the perfect situation of a bump and 12 SB from the same type of kill the day before, are you seriously telling me that the tank needs a nerf if they have to chase it. Forget about Catalysts, think about the 12 SB's if that helps.

But now you are getting to it in terms of the gates and more engaging gameplay, the current game play is just too lame, even if it doubled to 24 Catalysts or lets say we used 6 Talos which doubled to 12, are you telling me that this needs nerfring if there was no bumping.

I focussed on the 182,580 hit pints on that fit based on 22 seconds before CONCORD which with 12 Catalyst came to 700 DPS which is overheating territory.

Anyway the key part is the 182,580 EHP, got that?

Nekbeards don't have jobs. Its tough to multibox 12 ships on 486SX running a pentium emulator cooled by a ceiling fan.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#574 - 2017-04-03 00:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Aaron wrote:
I think it's time to get real. A player can take the time to learn about ganking and all the variables that affect it such as hostile fleet size, EHP....and so on.

Plain and simple, you will be targeted if you have freight value of over 1 billion. If you keep the value below 1 billion isk then you won't even have to consider all the variables of a gank situation.

Form some kind of group where you can contact freight pilots to relay this message. The ones that don't listen or bother to investigate anything will be punished because the mechanics are purposely set that way.

This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.

Stop acting as if there are no counters to freight ganking when there blatantly are.

This is garbage. It was not programmed this way. When freighters came out you needed at least 30 battleships now you only need 12 stealth bombers. When freighters came out there were no tags, you had to grind sec back which was very time consuming. When freighters came out you couldn't do (at the time battleship damage) with cheap frigates.

Bitches will whine that battleships insurance meant using battleships was cheaper but no, even with full insurance you still lost the value of platinum insurance. 30 plat insurances for tier 3 battleships was around the cost of 60 stealth bombers.

Then you factor in the massive jump in isk generation today vs then.

It was never programmed this way, this is all about mudflation and powercreep turning ganking into the easiest form of PvP with the smallest cost (apart from frig v frig) with the least risk and significant payoff. Its out of wack with the rest of EvE. EvE WoW, EvE Light or whatever.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#575 - 2017-04-03 00:58:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I think it's time to get real. A player can take the time to learn about ganking and all the variables that affect it such as hostile fleet size, EHP....and so on.

Plain and simple, you will be targeted if you have freight value of over 1 billion. If you keep the value below 1 billion isk then you won't even have to consider all the variables of a gank situation.

Form some kind of group where you can contact freight pilots to relay this message. The ones that don't listen or bother to investigate anything will be punished because the mechanics are purposely set that way.

This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.

Stop acting as if there are no counters to freight ganking when there blatantly are.

This is garbage. It was not programmed this way. When freighters came out you needed at least 30 battleships now you only need 12 stealth bombers. When freighters came out there were no tags, you had to grind sec back which was very time consuming. When freighters came out you couldn't do (at the time battleship damage) with cheap frigates.

Bitches will whine that battleships insurance meant using battleships was cheaper but no, even with full insurance you still lost the value of platinum insurance. 30 plat insurances for tier 3 battleships was around the cost of 60 stealth bombers.

Then you factor in the massive jump in isk generation today vs then.

It was never programmed this way, this is all about mudflation and powercreep turning ganking into the easiest form of PvP with the smallest cost (apart from frig v frig) with the least risk and significant payoff. Its out of wack with the rest of EvE. EvE WoW, EvE Light or whatever.

stop living in the past lmao...

Quote:
To infinity... And beyond!!

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#576 - 2017-04-03 01:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I think it's time to get real. A player can take the time to learn about ganking and all the variables that affect it such as hostile fleet size, EHP....and so on.

Plain and simple, you will be targeted if you have freight value of over 1 billion. If you keep the value below 1 billion isk then you won't even have to consider all the variables of a gank situation.

Form some kind of group where you can contact freight pilots to relay this message. The ones that don't listen or bother to investigate anything will be punished because the mechanics are purposely set that way.

This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.

Stop acting as if there are no counters to freight ganking when there blatantly are.

This is garbage. It was not programmed this way. When freighters came out you needed at least 30 battleships now you only need 12 stealth bombers. When freighters came out there were no tags, you had to grind sec back which was very time consuming. When freighters came out you couldn't do (at the time battleship damage) with cheap frigates.

Bitches will whine that battleships insurance meant using battleships was cheaper but no, even with full insurance you still lost the value of platinum insurance. 30 plat insurances for tier 3 battleships was around the cost of 60 stealth bombers.

Then you factor in the massive jump in isk generation today vs then.

It was never programmed this way, this is all about mudflation and powercreep turning ganking into the easiest form of PvP with the smallest cost (apart from frig v frig) with the least risk and significant payoff. Its out of wack with the rest of EvE. EvE WoW, EvE Light or whatever.

stop living in the past lmao...

Quote:
To infinity... And beyond!!

Whooooosh... That was a point going past. Not sure if it missed you or it hit you and caused brain damage...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#577 - 2017-04-03 01:23:55 UTC
your first retort is claiming I got brain damage from whatever?

Jee

brb going to biomass as I can't handle forum pvp
/s

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#578 - 2017-04-03 01:26:58 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
your first retort is claiming I got brain damage from whatever?

Jee

brb going to biomass as I can't handle forum pvp
/s

Tough galaxy aye?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#579 - 2017-04-03 01:28:43 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
your first retort is claiming I got brain damage from whatever?

Jee

brb going to biomass as I can't handle forum pvp
/s

Tough galaxy aye?

F

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#580 - 2017-04-03 01:35:28 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Aaron wrote:


This is a clear description of the environment we are in and it has been programmed this way to make us think more about our actions within the game, it prompts us to think things like having an escort to rep our armour for example we can rep until the hostile fleet is concorded.



Speaking from a real life point of view I think a very harsh virtual reality such as Eve is an interesting way for a games company to make money. It still has lots of appeal to people like me who like the difficulty level at maximum.

I believe the original design of Eve belonged to a man named Thorolfur Beck who was the majority share holder. It is said that there was some difficulty with his desire to control everything and had difficulty dealing with the stress of creating one of the first MMO's. He left CCP before beta was released.

Would be interesting to read his take on this. Who knows maybe CCP and this Beck person may start working together on Eve again..


You quoted yourself?!?
Hisec shenanigans are a minor thing that has at every change encouraged people to leave hisec. Crimewatch is a baffling ordeal of a card trick. Hisec wars are mostly for interrupting null competitor's logistics, the rest is just to help stay awake picking off bads. If there was a null jita and/or stuff was made out there hisec violence would be less fun and less profitable.

Aaron wrote:
Would be interesting to read his take on this. Who knows maybe CCP and this Beck person may start working together on Eve again..


Thorolfur pls go?



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.