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How many more players must we lose to bullying

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aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#521 - 2017-04-02 10:50:51 UTC
Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:
CCP's own survey has showed that new players who have been ganked are more likely to stay than those who mine all days in peace.



I did my own closed survey which I haven't shown anyone that contradicts this. Roll
Stats are mere numbers which you manipulate your own needs. They are only relevant if all measurement criteria and results are known to all.
I have gone from 5 accounts, soon to be none, well one alpha holding all my loot because sometimes you just want to relax and get away from all the ass hats in the game, and that is becoming more and more difficult. I don't judge though, CCP makes choices based on revenue, so I suspect my 5 subbed accounts are not as imporatant as the maybe 10 alpha greifers that now exists.
I know of many long time players stopping for the same reasons, EVE HAS CHANGED in the last year or 2. Only CCP can say if its for the better.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#522 - 2017-04-02 10:58:45 UTC
aldhura wrote:
Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:
CCP's own survey has showed that new players who have been ganked are more likely to stay than those who mine all days in peace.



I did my own closed survey which I haven't shown anyone that contradicts this. Roll
Stats are mere numbers which you manipulate your own needs. They are only relevant if all measurement criteria and results are known to all.
I have gone from 5 accounts, soon to be none, well one alpha holding all my loot because sometimes you just want to relax and get away from all the ass hats in the game, and that is becoming more and more difficult. I don't judge though, CCP makes choices based on revenue, so I suspect my 5 subbed accounts are not as imporatant as the maybe 10 alpha greifers that now exists.
I know of many long time players stopping for the same reasons, EVE HAS CHANGED in the last year or 2. Only CCP can say if its for the better.


All the gankers quote that survey. What they ignore is it was only players who quit in first 14 days, hardly the targets a gankers goes for :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#523 - 2017-04-02 11:13:27 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
In effect all that needs to happen is that bumping a freighter like that is not possible and I would be fine with it, I would leave the DST loot scoop and wreck EHP as is.

You'd have to significantly nerf freighter HP to keep HiSec ganking balanced. Frieghter pilots outside HiSec and their escorts wouldn't thank you for such a change.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#524 - 2017-04-02 11:13:32 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Incursions take a crapload of time and there is plenty of competition for them. They also require specialized blinged out ships. Ganking requires a bunch of SB worth max 40 mill each.

Ganking takes just as much time and gankers spend much much more than an incursion player on ships and fittings. Either all multiboxing is wrong or none of it is.

Quote:

No the reason you don't get lots of freighters is not only numbers. A significant barrier is people can and will kill you for trying before you attack. People have intelligence networks and hotdrops. You can't hide behind concord. You dont have the option to afk float an alt freighter tp scoop and scoot. Its much more risky and difficult in space without concord.


Oh please if we find a freighter it's getting either a blogs drop or a doomsday to the face. Simple fact is the reason why so many more die in highsec is because there thousands flying around in highsec for every one in null.
Quote:

Only need a point to stop initial web warp then its screwed. You could easily stick 1 point on each bomber but its not necessary.


You could easily have several logi boats but you don't bother. End of the day if you decide to not protect your assets then you can't complain when a fleet take them off you.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#525 - 2017-04-02 11:18:36 UTC
Infinity wrote:

All the gankers quote that survey. What they ignore is it was only players who quit in first 14 days, hardly the targets a gankers goes for :)


You missed out the other part where CCP stated less than 1% of people who cancel their subscription cite ship loss or harassment.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#526 - 2017-04-02 12:31:51 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
In effect all that needs to happen is that bumping a freighter like that is not possible and I would be fine with it, I would leave the DST loot scoop and wreck EHP as is.

You'd have to significantly nerf freighter HP to keep HiSec ganking balanced. Frieghter pilots outside HiSec and their escorts wouldn't thank you for such a change.


Why would you have to nerf freighter EHP, you make a statement and don't back it up with anything, freighter ganking is unbalanced at this point in the favour of gankers with bumping. Are you telling me seriously that gankers could not adjust for no bumping, hell I have seen them go after scam contract freighters and be very reactive. Your suggestion is that freighter gankers could not handle this when in fact they will be joining the rest of Eve. ShockedRoll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#527 - 2017-04-02 12:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Incursions take a crapload of time and there is plenty of competition for them. They also require specialized blinged out ships. Ganking requires a bunch of SB worth max 40 mill each.

Ganking takes just as much time and gankers spend much much more than an incursion player on ships and fittings. Either all multiboxing is wrong or none of it is.

Quote:

No the reason you don't get lots of freighters is not only numbers. A significant barrier is people can and will kill you for trying before you attack. People have intelligence networks and hotdrops. You can't hide behind concord. You dont have the option to afk float an alt freighter tp scoop and scoot. Its much more risky and difficult in space without concord.


Oh please if we find a freighter it's getting either a blogs drop or a doomsday to the face. Simple fact is the reason why so many more die in highsec is because there thousands flying around in highsec for every one in null.
Quote:

Only need a point to stop initial web warp then its screwed. You could easily stick 1 point on each bomber but its not necessary.


You could easily have several logi boats but you don't bother. End of the day if you decide to not protect your assets then you can't complain when a fleet take them off you.

No ganking is much easier.

Maybe PL with it's half a trillion dev dropped monocle events and ex-dev CEOs etc etc would drop it but you're average ganker doesn't have that sort of help so I imagine they'd find things a little more challenging. End of the day the ability to gank freighters and let's be honest any other ship one wishes without the associated risks faced by real pvprs oitside high makes ganking in high too easy, lucrative, and is not in the spirit of the game.

Several logi boats and webber for one freighter? It'd be easier to just remove freighters from the game if that was required because noone would use them anymore. Its not a fleet if it's in highsec and not at war, more like a gaggle, brood or perhaps a gobble :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#528 - 2017-04-02 13:14:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
........................
Several logi boats and webber for one freighter? It'd be easier to just remove freighters from the game if that was required because noone would use them anymore. ...............


So, you obviously don't know why we have Freighters in the first place!

They were specifically designed to take completed Station/Outpost 'eggs' - via gates - all the way out to deep Null Sec.

What nonsense...

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#529 - 2017-04-02 13:22:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Chopper Rollins
-- Could easily say the same for gankers, why not get out of highsec.

I'd like to see ganking go back to a more solo enterprise where the individual would be trying to make a profit--

Then move their food away, ie out of hisec.

Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#530 - 2017-04-02 13:22:06 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

No ganking is much easier.


It's only ever as easy as the victim let's it be.
Quote:

Maybe PL with it's half a trillion dev dropped monocle events and ex-dev CEOs etc etc would drop it but you're average ganker doesn't have that sort of help so I imagine they'd find things a little more challenging. End of the day the ability to gank freighters and let's be honest any other ship one wishes without the associated risks faced by real pvprs oitside high makes ganking in high too easy, lucrative, and is not in the spirit of the game.


So nerf concord if it's getting in the way of you dealing with gankers.
Quote:

Several logi boats and webber for one freighter? It'd be easier to just remove freighters from the game if that was required because noone would use them anymore. Its not a fleet if it's in highsec and not at war, more like a gaggle, brood or perhaps a gobble :)


It requires a fleet to kill a freighter in highsec but asking the victims to form a smaller fleet to defend is apparently too much to askRoll
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#531 - 2017-04-02 13:31:50 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
In effect all that needs to happen is that bumping a freighter like that is not possible and I would be fine with it, I would leave the DST loot scoop and wreck EHP as is.

You'd have to significantly nerf freighter HP to keep HiSec ganking balanced. Frieghter pilots outside HiSec and their escorts wouldn't thank you for such a change.


Why would you have to nerf freighter EHP, you make a statement and don't back it up with anything, freighter ganking is unbalanced at this point in the favour of gankers with bumping.

Freighter ganking is balanced because of bumping. If you buff them by making them unbumpable, you'll need to nerf them to compensate. Right now freighter ganking is pretty balanced, possibly unbalanced in favour of the freighters.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#532 - 2017-04-02 14:11:14 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
-- Could easily say the same for gankers, why not get out of highsec.

I'd like to see ganking go back to a more solo enterprise where the individual would be trying to make a profit--

Then move their food away, ie out of hisec.


How do you suggest that happens? Gankers will be in highsec as long as targets are, as long as players are. Gankers will be in highsec, in it's current form, until it is empty.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#533 - 2017-04-02 14:43:56 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
-- Could easily say the same for gankers, why not get out of highsec.

I'd like to see ganking go back to a more solo enterprise where the individual would be trying to make a profit--

Then move their food away, ie out of hisec.


How do you suggest that happens? Gankers will be in highsec as long as targets are, as long as players are. Gankers will be in highsec, in it's current form, until it is empty.



If you're rich enough to make killing you profitable, you shouldn't be in hisec.
This is getting so old, if people insist on living in hisec for so long, they attract that playstyle.
Therefore, no complaining, the problem isn't flies, it's all the garbage.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#534 - 2017-04-02 14:44:56 UTC
I try to stay away from mental gymnastics and twisting words, such things pain me. I offer only the truth, for it is the most potent of weapons.

Most of those who oppose ganking do nothing other than whine. I can count on my hand the number of people who have made a decent effort into stopping us, and the number of those that have put any research or thought into so that they actually achieve anything beyond making me use an insta-undock bookmark is even fewer. I don't take seriously any complaints about ganking from anybody who hasn't engaged in it or against it in any meaningful way beyond wailing about how unfair it is that ships exploded in a game about ships exploding.

I feel sorry for the poor wardecers who we gankers have once again deprived of their rightful tears. This post was made to be about noble wardecers, not ingenious gankers. And yet here we are, again being subject to wailing and moaning about gankers. It is once again up to a highsec content creator to show others the way, and get things back to the way they should be, in this case, a thread about wardecs and how they are encouraging player retention by engaging players in honourable space combat.

Grr marmite.

There once was a ganker named tisi

A stunningly beautiful missy

To gank a gross miner

There is nothing finer, cept when they get all pissy
xXdongbenderXx
Doomheim
#535 - 2017-04-02 14:46:19 UTC
Tisiphone Dira wrote:
I try to stay away from mental gymnastics and twisting words, such things pain me. I offer only the truth, for it is the most potent of weapons.

Most of those who oppose ganking do nothing other than whine. I can count on my hand the number of people who have made a decent effort into stopping us, and the number of those that have put any research or thought into so that they actually achieve anything beyond making me use an insta-undock bookmark is even fewer. I don't take seriously any complaints about ganking from anybody who hasn't engaged in it or against it in any meaningful way beyond wailing about how unfair it is that ships exploded in a game about ships exploding.

I feel sorry for the poor wardecers who we gankers have once again deprived of their rightful tears. This post was made to be about noble wardecers, not ingenious gankers. And yet here we are, again being subject to wailing and moaning about gankers. It is once again up to a highsec content creator to show others the way, and get things back to the way they should be, in this case, a thread about wardecs and how they are encouraging player retention by engaging players in honourable space combat.

Grr marmite.


damn girl you got a nice carcass
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#536 - 2017-04-02 16:11:27 UTC
I have removed an off-topic post and one quoting it.

Quote:
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#537 - 2017-04-02 16:15:01 UTC
I have removed a lot of troll posts and those quoting them.

Quote:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.


ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#538 - 2017-04-02 16:38:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Several logi boats and webber for one freighter? It'd be easier to just remove freighters from the game if that was required because noone would use them anymore.


Freighters are corp-level assets. As much has been asserted by the devs themselves repeatedly in the past. They are defenceless because the intention was always to encourage the use of an escort. Nothing has changed in that department. The fact that they can be used solo doesn't mean it's a good idea, just like ratting in a Moros or POCO bashing in a supercap solo is probably really dumb.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#539 - 2017-04-02 16:43:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
In effect all that needs to happen is that bumping a freighter like that is not possible and I would be fine with it, I would leave the DST loot scoop and wreck EHP as is.

You'd have to significantly nerf freighter HP to keep HiSec ganking balanced. Frieghter pilots outside HiSec and their escorts wouldn't thank you for such a change.


Why would you have to nerf freighter EHP, you make a statement and don't back it up with anything, freighter ganking is unbalanced at this point in the favour of gankers with bumping.

Freighter ganking is balanced because of bumping. If you buff them by making them unbumpable, you'll need to nerf them to compensate. Right now freighter ganking is pretty balanced, possibly unbalanced in favour of the freighters.


You seriously think that freighter ganking is balanced at this point with bumping as it is?

I just went to Zkill, I found a Charon freighter with three Caro expanders in Uedama with 12 Catalystrs on the kill and you seriously tell me that this needs to be nerfed, what to one catalyst? 12 Catalysts worth 11m each total value 132m, that lot could easily chase down a freighter trying to make a run for it along with a suicide blackbird to hold it. Seriously mate I have to laugh at you saying that it needs to be nerfed because it is too hard, define hard for me please it would be a good laugh...


And people wonder why I keep posting on this subject, I do it because it is comedy gold...

Max cargo charon is 182,580 EHP...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#540 - 2017-04-02 16:50:38 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


You seriously think that freighter ganking is balanced at this point with bumping as it is?

I just went to Zkill, I found a Charon freighter with three Caro expanders in Uedama with 12 Catalystrs on the kill and you seriously tell me that this needs to be nerfed, what to one catalyst? 12 Catalysts worth 11m each total value 132m, that lot could easily chase down a freighter trying to make a run for it along with a suicide blackbird to hold it. Seriously mate I have to laugh at you saying that it needs to be nerfed because it is too hard, define hard for me please it would be a good laugh...


And people wonder why I keep posting on this subject, I do it because it is comedy gold...


It is only as hard as the victim makes it.