Warfare & Tactics

I think just about anyone who has done it and like pvp in eve agrees it is fun. The problem is "and somewhat meaningful" bit. The problem is the overall sov mechanics are so bad very few care about who wins. That is why so many are getting the fun of fighting in plexes as pirates.

He said "limited playing time" which means he's never going to have the impact you say he wants because others who put more effort into FW will squash his hopes and dreams. That's just the way it is.

Your proposals don't solve that issue, and neither do Suitonia's.

(PvP'ers aren't going to chase farmers around the map in back end systems even if they know where they are.)

I don’t think you are grasping the full systemic change this (combined with rollbacks) would have across the warzone.

If CCP gave us real time intel and rollbacks there would be no more rabbit plexing farmers. It would become so ineffective people would just stop rabbit plexing. And so when you went to a plex you would likely get combat not running away. That would mean more pvpers, join, rejoin, and stay in faction war. And that would in turn further drive out the rabbits.

People do fight in plexes throughout the warzone. Just because a pilot is not in one of the systems you consider a "home system" does not mean they are just a "farmer" (or what is more relevant here a “rabbit plexer”).

Lots of players uses the plexes as a way to split blobs and get good fights. Not only faction war people who want to gain lp or sov. Like I said it seems at least 1/3 of the fights I get in and around plexes are with neutrals. (It may even be more than that) And I am usually not in the main pirate systems like ammamake, Tamma and old man star. Also I get allot of these fights with people outside the main faction war bases such as huola, Kamela, Sisiede, kourmonen and auga.

Why do I avoid these home base systems? Because they are very binary. Those systems are very much like null sec. Can you out escalate? If yes then you can stay. If not then you have nothing to do there. Where as when a system is not someone’s base or they are in a smaller group you can manipulate the situation to get a fight. If they are with 4 people maybe only 2 can enter the type of plex I am in and I can get a fight. That’s much harder when everyone can just reship right there and enter the plex and keep it 4 to 1 or 8 vs 2 whatever.

I know you think solo or micro gang pvp is "niche" but I can assure you there are plenty of players who like it. You often have to go off beaten paths to get good fights though. Right now many players can get plex warfare by roaming systems and checking plexes. Yes allot of times they are rabbits and run ( currently that is the most efficient way to gain sov and to get lp ) but other times they will fight. If I see a system with allot in local and with allot of ships on dscan, but none in a plex I might go in a plex myself and I will often get a fight that way.

None of what I am saying is some big secret strategy to get fights, lots and lots of pvpers do the same thing whether they are in faction war or not.

Now lets think about how much more efficient this will be if instead of wandering around looking for pilots in plexes we had intel about where there are plexes being occupied. We could go directly to those systems closest to us. I would say that about 3/4s of the systems I go to have no one in a plex. PvPers would no longer have to spend time warping to those systems and could go directly to the ones that have people plexing. This would dramatically increase the efficiency of finding fights in plexes. It would also dramatically decrease the efficiency of trying to plex thinking you can run away from every fight. Players would be jumping in your plex several times more often than they do now forcing you to warp off and lose time regardless of rollbacks.
Moreover if you see no one in your cluster of systems you know that when you go in a plex the entire enemy militia is going to get that intel. Faction bashing aside, I know there are plenty of pvpers in minmatar who will be en route to defend a plex. The days where you go in a plex and wonder if anyone even knows you are there will be gone.
What does that mean? Well you know all those pvpers who left fw? Many will come back. That will mean more of these systems will get more busy and squeeze out the rabbits. Many of the pirates who do exactly what I describe will see that the real time intel is a significant advantage to being in faction war and they will join. Again putting even more pressure on the rabbits.

The more rapid response to plexes being captured combined with the increase in pvpers will completely change the game. Rabbit plexing will be a thing of the past.

I do agree with Crosi on one point, we do not need to make it so no one can ever earn an lp or vp by rabbit plexing. We just need to make it so it passes a certain threshold to where it is so much less efficient than fighting that it is no longer a viable way to go. At that point fw sov is no longer be the silly rabbit race we see now. It becomes a real war. And it then gains respect, and then it will gain players. All of this will definitely happen if ccp implements rollbacks and real time intel.

It may be that rollbacks alone could put us past the threshold. It may be that real time intel alone could do it. But that would depend on how they are implemented and I am not sure that one alone would be enough. Also I can not say I know exactly where that threshold is. But the combined decrease that rabbit plexing would suffer from a good real time intel tool and a decent rollback mechanic would almost certainly put it past that threshold.

As a neutral pvper I might not join faction war if only rollbacks were implemented. It might make more sense to keep the larger number of potential targets. However if joining the militia meant I received real time intel on plexes being run I would join immediately.


And btw the intel tool should not be something that you need to be docked to use. So I don't know why people are talking about staying docked waiting for a ping.

It may not change the motivation of players but it would drastically change the effectiveness of alt rabbit plexing. Once the effectiveness of a behavior drops below a certain threshold the numbers of people doing it drop to where it has minimal effect. Those changes would accomplish that.

If you mean motivation of the pvpers then it is already there. If someone knows someone is in a plex they will warp there to get a fight. All of my fights in fw low sec are basically when that happens. It will only increase as that form of pvp becomes more and more efficient to get. And those 2 changes will make it much more efficient.

Ok good question. Its not going to change that overnight. But with time it will.


I think it is important to start out from the perspective of someone who is roaming looking for a fight. Right now when I roam I always have options. What route should I take – should I check this system first before going down a different path? Etc. Now lets leave Teimo aside for now and just think about typical pvp routes you might take on a roam.

If I had easily accessible intel tool about plexes I would see ok this path has 4 wts and one friendly plexing in it 1 jump away where as the other paths seem to have very little. So I will go to where I see people plexing. Even if normally I would have taken the different route! Lots of other Pvpers will make that same decision. I also will tend not to go to systems or on routes where there are very few people plexing. Again lots of pvpers will do the same.


If your intel tells you there are more wts plexing in some of your pvp spots wouldn’t that bump up their priority? I know it would for me. I mean right now I am just roaming and dscanning the plexes in systems with people. As do many other pvpers.

Ok so then what? So then we would start to get more fights faster in plexes because the systems with people plexing take priority for a certain percent of low sec pvpers. So players who are looking for pvp will start to realize hey I can get some pvp faster if I use this intel. More players will use the intel tool. That means more players will get even more pvp using the intel. That means more pvpers will want to join the militia so they can use the intel etc. Pretty soon you will find systems that used to be plexed mainly by rabbits are getting lots of fights over those plexes. (again probably not teimo right away but many more systems than your main pvp hot spots)

As this grows with pvpers systems that used to medium hotspots for plex pvp will become very hot – like home systems. So pvpers who want to avoid large groups will move to slightly quieter systems driving out rabbits from more systems. Before too long players won't even be able to rabbit plex Teimo.

Not only that but the game of fw sov itself will start to be seen as less of a rabbit plexing race and more of a legit pvp game. So people who thought the current rabbit plexing game is too horrible to even bother with might start to change their minds since it is becoming much more pvp fast paced and fun. New players will not become disgusted by it so fast. This will give fw sov more credibility and lead to more people giving it a try and staying longer. The importance of this aspect can not be overstated.

And this will continue to snowball to where we will have hundreds if not thousands of pvpers actively pursuing sov in the militias at any given time. Its very much a matter of tipping points and once that point is tipped where people see they get the best pvp the quickest by using the intel tool to find plexes to fight over it will snowball.

Rabbits will not be able to hide anymore and gain time on their plexes. So pvp corps that even currently want to gain sov outside their own system will have an easier time taking and keeping more systems. Also with rollbacks they will lose that time when they warp off. Its bad news all around for rabbits. More pvpers no hiding and rollbacks punishing them from running.

As the number of pvpers going directly to plexes grows the number of plexes rabbits can capture without interruption decreases. Rollbacks makes their work even less efficient. Soon people will be better off to just trying to fight – or better off farming something else for isk. Either way fw sov gains because it is no longer a joke.


Also as to Teimo let me also say you know more about who is where in the different systems than your average militia. I didn’t know much about teimo because it is not on any of my typical routes. I think there will be plenty of players like me who will go to teimo. And that will make the rabbits less and less efficient and make more and more time rollback. As the fights over plexes heat up more and more players will join and keep disturbing teimo rabbits. But really its that general push of pvp in plexes that will eventually make it so you can't rabbit plex even in teimo.

And BTW if we had an intel tool it wouldn't be for a pvper to actually capture plexes in Teimo since he would likely get more enemies warping in on him.

Let's forget the rabbits for a moment.

What happens with people that they just want to do a few plexes but will pick up a fight if looks engagable.
( this is my tipical scenary when I'm running out of isk, I pick up a combat ship, and usually I don't plex in hotspots where defenders will chase me like hell )

The notification system will do lp farming quite more difficult, no iskis no pvp that's for sure.

Not all in plexes are for sov reasons, "combat-farming" is ok and desirable, much better than missions in terms of content.

Why not defenders just undock and "give a walk" over the systems they want to protect ?.

It is really so tiring to warp to the sun and scan a few plexes for targets if you see one wt in local.

Come on guys, what will be the next request, auto-warping at 10 and sliding and point-web automatically ?

OMG undock and fight, this game has already too much people just itting in the stations.

So you are now committed to chasing rabbits if your proposed changes go through?

so what stops the opposite side running alts to pop plex in every system they pass just to spam the living **** outa the intel tool i for one would use an alt just to do this an **** people off

The intel tool would give real time intel of where Plex timers are running, not just where someone opened a Plex. Popping a Plex would not do anything. A tool that works with a map would probably be better than notifications.




I posted what would change above. I don't think I can make it any simpler. I am sorry you can't understand.

BTW when you were claiming a close relationship between vp and pvp, I asked you if you all your plexing alts were in your main character's corp 2 times. You never answered. Are all your plexing alts in in Justified Chaos?