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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Let's talk about Suitonia's suggestions to improve FW

Author
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#101 - 2017-02-27 18:38:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Cearain wrote:

I never wrote that I wanted to get rid of lp for plexing. (I even said it would be fine before inferno changes were even talked about) I never said fw was fixed before inferno.



I also never said that you wanted to get rid of LP for plexing. Perhaps you should also read 'crosi on cerain', Instead of misrepresenting every post anyone ever makes to shoot down your nieve and/or stupid ideas, as though it completely supports your opinion even though it clearly doesnt.

You have never explained how free intel moves us from a state where people dont want to chase evasion farmers around, to a state where people get a notification about every single farmer and non farmer running a plex and they jump to it and make 3 jumps to some dead end system to chase a farmer around as though no one knew there was likely a farmer in iwisoda or teimo.

Not sure what the change would be in peractical terms or where the motivation for pvpers to change their behaviour comes from.

The hunt is 90% of the game in FW imo.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#102 - 2017-02-27 21:52:38 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

You have never explained how free intel moves us from a state where people dont want to chase evasion farmers around, to a state where people get a notification about every single farmer and non farmer running a plex and they jump to it and make 3 jumps to some dead end system to chase a farmer around as though no one knew there was likely a farmer in iwisoda or teimo.

Not sure what the change would be in peractical terms or where the motivation for pvpers to change their behaviour comes from.


Ok so I never said the intel had to be free. But again I am sure you will keep on saying "free intel free intel free intel" everytime you respond to my post. The intel can be provided as part of the price for being in the militia, it can be free to everyone, or you might have to pay for it in isk or lp I don't really care. If some people complain that it is "free" intel I am willing to compromise. I have said this before but I realize it will not stop you from constantly saying "free intel."

You have in the past suggested that I wish we would go back to pre- inferno. But I am not interested arguing about this as it derails the conversation. Let me address the question concern you raise above.

Few people like chasing rabbits and that won't change. Intel will make it easier to defend a cluster of systems than it is now from rabbits. That means rabbits will have a harder time completing plexes. With real time intel combined with a rollback system (which will also make rabbit plexing less efficient) the effectiveness of rabbit plexers will be so severely decreased we likely won't have any more rabbits at all.

Why are there less rabbits in systems busy with enemies? It is not because people in those systems enjoy chasing rabbits. Its because the rabbits can't hide and plex. People will know they are there and keep disturbing them. Accordingly they will not be efficient at what they want to do whether that is gaining vp or lp. If we had real time intel then there would be no hiding at all. This means rabbit plexers would become relatively less efficient than those who are willing to stay and fight. Lots of time the rabbit will warp off a few systems away if you keep chasing them. In other words they want you to lose their trail. This form of hide and seek plexing will end.


I realize you have little interest in actually gaining sov outside of your base system or just a few others. But there are people - myself included who would love to play the game and gain as much sov for my faction as I can when I play (or prevent the enemy from gaining sov) but not have to sacrifice pvp or turn the game into multiboxing rabbit plexing alts.

So what will will notifications mean for me and others like me? It would mean that I can reasonably cover a cluster of about 7 systems and make sure no one is farming them. This obviously would work well with rollbacks. But if we have rollbacks without the real time intel we still might have this hide and seek plexing. Its unclear to me whether rollbacks alone will end rabbit plexing. But I am sure that the combination of real time intel combined with a rollback system can end it or at least make it so that those pilots getting the most vp per day or week have killboards that show they had to pvp in order to get that vp.



Crosi Wesdo wrote:

The hunt is 90% of the game in FW imo.


Lots of people think war is different than hunting and the game should understand that. But this goes with your general defense of rabbit plexers:

Crosi Wesdo wrote:

'Fixing farmers' is not really any different to 'Make more space empty'.


I couldn't disagree more. If we ended farming through rollbacks and realtime intel then pvpers could realistically start to care about gaining space throughout the warzone. It wouldn't be a hopeless cause and they wouldn't have to trade off getting allot of pvp with getting the most vp they could. Those back systems would fill up and you would see a huge increase in content there.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#103 - 2017-02-27 22:13:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
So you have always suggested intel is free, but now you suggest a price for the intel it invalidates my criticism? By free, i mean free of effort, free of undocking. No good content came from being docked.

I have never said you wanted to go back to pre inferno. Though i have said that you argued the main problems with inferno, such as the cash out meta were in fact desirable and should be brought back.

Ill tell you how not to derail a thread. Dont just lie about what people have said. Then they wont need to correct you.

Anyone that cares to gain space just has to go run a plex in space they care about. The fact that a farmer is there or not is inconsequential. People dont need free intel to care about space, they just have to undock and be in space. If they are not in x system, they obviously dont care about x system as much as a farmer in x system. At best, your free intel would allow a pvper to dock in station until such a time as a farmer starts a plex in x system. This is not a mechanic that encourages activity. It encourages docking. In exactly the same way that corps and alliance pings encourage people to only log in when jabber lights up.

Your arguments have always been a shambles. You point at things you dont like, then blame everything that is wrong (often things that arnt even that wrong) on those issues. Then you present some solution that doesnt even address the issues you outlined as though they were in some way a solution. You always imply that if things went the way you wanted that droves of players would return to FW. if CCP simply implemented the demented ideas you propose. Im just here to call your bullshit for what it is. You are disillusional and have a ultra narrow experience of FW as evidenced by your 'solutions'.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
#104 - 2017-02-27 22:30:36 UTC
+1 It's amazing how members of JUSTK have the best insight into FW.

CCP should work on these suggestions, especially the low hanging fruit.
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Here's a little things list that has been cleaned up and passed around for a couple years that you might want to send his way. The original is linked in the newfw tweetfleet channel.

Remove FW standings hits in null sec.
Remove purple icon for allied militia - or allied militia should take standings hit if they attack you (or just get rid of allied militia) (4 way war confirmed as desired by CCP Affinity).
FW standings eligibility should be applied on individual basis, not on corp basis.
Remove faction standings hits for AoE effects (or other weapons) when in same fleet. (or remove standings hits for all AoE weapons everywhere in lowsec)
FW overview for newbro’s in militia MOTD and FW panel.
MILITIA FILTER. Militia-only contracts. “Militia” filter for POS access, Citadels, etc… Ability for militia members to post future events such as future fleets to entire militia on Calendar
Strengthen Faction Navy to make it harder to camp opposing highsec to farm newbs.
Have plexes persist through DT and redo spawn mechanics of non-outposts (keep them semi-random though)
Randomize plex respawn rate by using a respawn window.
Useful system upgrades
Decouple System Upgrades from Tier Level
Smooth out Tier system and fix payouts for PVP at existing level 5 payouts.
Remove aggression from plex rats (affects afk oplexers without hurting pvp’ers).
Citadel problem.


Here's another great observation wrt how isk/lp balances out tier levels.
Cire Xinehp wrote:
Being in a lower tier pushes the LP value up for the "Losing side" because there is less LP coming in.

At least that is how I've seen things to work, so being in a lower tier and earning less LP isn't a punishment because it's worth more.

As the Gal Mil LP value climbs the farmers etc will switch sides to try and cash in on the additional value because the Caldari LP value has dropped.

From reading what has been suggested etc it seems this is being missed and it really does need to be taken into account.


-Cash out before/during the push when the value has spiked


Most of us get it - the ones who are actually in FW.
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
dual timers seems like a more elegant solution than timer rollbacks.


The first, most important part is that CCP put some dev time into FW.
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Part of the issue we seem to run into on a semi-regular basis is how FW is currently just not dealt with or considered very much on the CCP side for whatever the reason. I'm not sure Suitonia or any other CSM rep by themselves will be able to change that, but it would be interesting to hear how they might go about it.



PvP'ers understand that more content is good, whether it's from pirates or pvp. They also understand that different people enter FW for different reasons. The fun part is aligning all these different motivations towards a common goal. Farmers, pvpers, FW system control honks, all have a part to play in FW.

Perkutor Jakuard wrote:

Pirates add content, mercs add content, citadels add content.
More content is good.
Less content is oviously bad.
.
.
.
Well everybody has differents reasons to be in factional, personally I'm just by pvp reasons.




X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
#105 - 2017-02-27 22:41:11 UTC
Cearain wrote:
The top vp gainers for yesterday are not in your corp.


Why don't you go down a couple rows and look at the corp stats?

My corp is among the leaders in VP/day and FW kills/day, and they mainly use plexes to get all the FW pvp they want.

You, OTOH, are not even enrolled in FW. But please feel free to spurge all over these FW threads with the same nonsense you've been spurging for years.


Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#106 - 2017-02-28 00:45:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
The top vp gainers for yesterday are not in your corp.


Why don't you go down a couple rows and look at the corp stats?

My corp is among the leaders in VP/day and FW kills/day, and they mainly use plexes to get all the FW pvp they want.

You, OTOH, are not even enrolled in FW. But please feel free to spurge all over these FW threads with the same nonsense you've been spurging for years.




If you want to gain vp you rabbit plex. You know this as well as I do. That is why you have plexing alts. That is why the top vp gainers are these guys for the week who fly empty or stabbed ships.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6852999#post6852999

I am not sure why anyone would put their plex alts in a pvp corp. Do you have your plexing alts in your pvp corp?

But ok lets look at the top corps over the last week for vp and kills. Your corp has about 8% of the vp of the FDU. (FDU =86,000 vp Justified Chaos has 7220 vp) So if getting VP is the way to kills we should fully expect FDU to have about 10xs as many kills right? Instead they only have 429 kills and your corp has 222 kills on the week. Now how many plexes do you have to capture to get 86,000 vp? Think about that. FDU has significantly more vp than the next top five player corps combined from all of the factions not just gallente! Thats allot of rabbit plexing.

Now go ahead and look at the fdu's killboard and see how many of those actual pilots getting those 429 kills are on the list for top vp. So ZKill shows 10 most active pilots down to pilots that have about 13 kills. And the VP gained for the week lists 100 pilots. I do not see a single pilot in the kill top 10 for the week from the fdu making it as even one of the top 100 vp gainers. (If I missed one let me know.)

There are 2 player corps with more kills than your corp. Neither of them are listed as one of the top vp gainers for the week. In fact, other than your corp, none of the player corps that are top vp gainers are top killers. Also *none* of the top killers are top vp gainers. (again other than your corp). So it seems that your corp is more the exception than the rule. Either you want pvp or you want to gain sov.

Anyone who looks at the actual data even remotely objectively will see that the efficient way to plex is to avoid combat.

As for me not being in faction war, I am talking about faction war sov in particular. Most of the pvp corps in faction war have no more to do with faction war sov than I do. If you are only going to listen to people who are really participating in faction war sov across the map then you will be talking with 90% rabbit plexers. (Actually it will likely be higher than that when we add the rabbits from the other npc fw corps. I would not be surprised if 95% of the plexes captured are captured by rabbit plexers.)

I don't see how you can look at this overwhelmingly clear data and say fw sov mechanics are fine.


X Gallentius wrote:
+1 It's amazing how members of JUSTK have the best insight into FW.

....
Here's another great observation wrt how isk/lp balances out tier levels.
Cire Xinehp wrote:
Being in a lower tier pushes the LP value up for the "Losing side" because there is less LP coming in.

At least that is how I've seen things to work, so being in a lower tier and earning less LP isn't a punishment because it's worth more.

As the Gal Mil LP value climbs the farmers etc will switch sides to try and cash in on the additional value because the Caldari LP value has dropped.

From reading what has been suggested etc it seems this is being missed and it really does need to be taken into account.


-Cash out before/during the push when the value has spiked


Most of us get it - the ones who are actually in FW.




Again the problem with this logic is you can cash out your lp for any faction at any time you want. So sure Cash out your lp for Gallente when gallente is at a low tier and the isk/lp spikes. But that doesn't mean you need to earn **** lp for gallente when they are at a low tier. When Gallente is at a low tier those who want to plex solely for isk can run for a different faction that way when that faction spikes they can cash out that factions lp. Run plexes for Gallente when they are at a high tier. Eventually the tide of rabbit plexers will swing against them and their lp will likely rise in value.

But I will say I agree with you on at least one thing. The amount of isk or lp you get is not the problem with faction war. I would also say adjusting the amount of isk or lp you get in faction war will not fix anything.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
#107 - 2017-02-28 01:16:31 UTC
Cearain wrote:
[
If you want to gain vp you rabbit plex. You know this as well as I do. That is why you have plexing alts. That is why the top vp gainers are these guys for the week who fly empty or stabbed ships.
.
.
.

But ok lets look at the top corps over the last week for vp and kills. Your corp has about 8% of the vp of the FDU. (FDU =86,000 vp Justified Chaos has 7220 vp) So if getting VP is the way to kills we should fully expect FDU to have about 10xs as many kills right? Instead they only have 429 kills and your corp has 222 kills on the week. Now how many plexes do you have to capture to get 86,000 vp? Think about that. FDU has significantly more vp than the next top five player corps combined from all of the factions not just gallente! Thats allot of rabbit plexing.
So what? Farmers aren't interested in pvp. Players that ARE interested in PVP know how to get fights from FW plexes all the time.

Quote:

Now go ahead and look at the fdu's killboard and see how many of those actual pilots getting those 429 kills are on the list for top vp. So ZKill shows 10 most active pilots down to pilots that have about 13 kills. And the VP gained for the week lists 100 pilots. I do not see a single pilot in the kill top 10 for the week from the fdu making it as even one of the top 100 vp gainers. (If I missed one let me know.)
Why are you so concerned about how others spend their time in FW?

Quote:

There are 2 player corps with more kills than your corp. Neither of them are listed as one of the top vp gainers for the week. In fact, other than your corp, none of the player corps that are top vp gainers are top killers. Also *none* of the top killers are top vp gainers. (again other than your corp). So it seems that your corp is more the exception than the rule. Either you want pvp or you want to gain sov.
Again, so what? They are interested in other things. That's fine.

Quote:

As for me not being in faction war, I am talking about faction war sov in particular.

Most of the pvp corps in faction war have no more to do with faction war sov than I do. If you are only going to listen to people who are really participating in faction war sov across the map then you will be talking with 90% rabbit plexers. (Actually it will likely be higher than that when we add the rabbits from the other npc fw corps. I would not be surprised if 95% of the plexes captured are captured by rabbit plexers.)
It gets tiring when CSM candidates like Suitonia and players such as yourself who don't participate offer up suggestions and platforms for improving FW. You don't know enough about it to have a valid, informed, position.

In particular, so what? What others do in FW is their business. FW plexes are a great mechanic for pvp, and the isk provided by them allows FW players to stay in theater where they can both fight and earn isk at the same time (rather than leaving theater to make isk).

Quote:

I don't see how you can look at this overwhelmingly clear data and say fw sov mechanics are fine.
In the big picture, FW Sov mechanics are just an excuse to pvp. The thing that makes system control in FW important is e-peen.

And we have found time and again that pushing a high e-peen system leads to massive levels of pvp.

We have also found time and again that most players aren't interested in chasing farmers around even if they know where the farmers are.

Perkutor Jakuard
Los violentos de Kenny
#108 - 2017-02-28 02:25:30 UTC
Clap Clap Clap.

It's amazing of how well X G, explained and knows what is the beuty of fw. :)

I don't understand how much attention are we puting in Cearain, which is not even enrolled in FW.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#109 - 2017-02-28 03:14:22 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
[
If you want to gain vp you rabbit plex. You know this as well as I do. That is why you have plexing alts. That is why the top vp gainers are these guys for the week who fly empty or stabbed ships.
.
.
.

But ok lets look at the top corps over the last week for vp and kills. Your corp has about 8% of the vp of the FDU. (FDU =86,000 vp Justified Chaos has 7220 vp) So if getting VP is the way to kills we should fully expect FDU to have about 10xs as many kills right? Instead they only have 429 kills and your corp has 222 kills on the week. Now how many plexes do you have to capture to get 86,000 vp? Think about that. FDU has significantly more vp than the next top five player corps combined from all of the factions not just gallente! Thats allot of rabbit plexing.
So what? Farmers aren't interested in pvp. Players that ARE interested in PVP know how to get fights from FW plexes all the time.


So you tell me to look at the corps and I do. The data shows you claim that vp and pvp are positively correllated is absolutely wrong. And so now you say "so what?" Why did you tell me to look at the data to begin with if you are just going to ignore it? Were you just trolling when you said there was this relation?

X Gallentius wrote:

Quote:

Now go ahead and look at the fdu's killboard and see how many of those actual pilots getting those 429 kills are on the list for top vp. So ZKill shows 10 most active pilots down to pilots that have about 13 kills. And the VP gained for the week lists 100 pilots. I do not see a single pilot in the kill top 10 for the week from the fdu making it as even one of the top 100 vp gainers. (If I missed one let me know.)
Why are you so concerned about how others spend their time in FW?


I'm not concerned with how others spend their time. I do not like the mechanics where you most efficiently win sov by constantly running away from fights.



X Gallentius wrote:

It gets tiring when CSM candidates like Suitonia and players such as yourself who don't participate offer up suggestions and platforms for improving FW. You don't know enough about it to have a valid, informed, position.

In particular, so what? What others do in FW is their business. FW plexes are a great mechanic for pvp, and the isk provided by them allows FW players to stay in theater where they can both fight and earn isk at the same time (rather than leaving theater to make isk).


Do you think only people with the flu can treat the flu? This is basically an ad hominem. You said to look at the correlation between pvp and vp for corps. I did and now you want to back away from the data and say yeah well you don't even currently participate in fw so your opinion doesn't count. Great. Hopefully our csm members will be a bit more logical about the game.

I have spent plenty of time in faction war to understand the mechanics and I have looked at the data. The data supports my views which are shared by plenty of people we have seen in this thread and others. To say everyone who became disenchanted with rabbit plexing and therefore left faction war just didn't understand enough about the mechanics to have valid opinions about it is insane.

You told me to look at the corps for vp and I did. The data is clear that sov is a rabbit plexing game. So what? So CCP can do better and they said they would. I would like a csm member to hold them to it.


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
#110 - 2017-02-28 04:33:41 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
kills and VP being related and all that. It's as if the FW plexing mechanic encourages fights, or something...


and i agree, but the plexing mechanic is to flip/defend systems, is it not? i know warzone ocupancy is ****** right now, but isn't it the main reason we are in FW cause of this whole gameplay?

if plexes be removed from warzone occupancy mechanic (and will just be a marker in space for fights as Perkutor Jakuard suggested), how can there be fights if nobody, esp. FW dudes, will go there in the first place...

Just Add Water

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#111 - 2017-02-28 05:44:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Nat Silverguard wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
kills and VP being related and all that. It's as if the FW plexing mechanic encourages fights, or something...


and i agree, but the plexing mechanic is to flip/defend systems, is it not? i know warzone ocupancy is ****** right now, but isn't it the main reason we are in FW cause of this whole gameplay?

if plexes be removed from warzone occupancy mechanic (and will just be a marker in space for fights as Perkutor Jakuard suggested), how can there be fights if nobody, esp. FW dudes, will go there in the first place...



I highly doubt that xg supports perkutors suggestion to decouple plexes from occupancy even if he is too diplomatic to say so. I understand the impulse behind that thought but it lacks the experience of a time when plexes were decoupled and in that time I and most other people had never visited a Plex after the initial honeymoon period when fw was new.

As for cerain, he is as entitled as anyone to make suggestions. But it gets tedious when he blames issues he has on things he doesn't like and makes assertions that somehow fixing he pet peeves will bring a huge population surge to fw.

Until he explains how an almost universally detested (ironically by everyone but farmers) mechanic in the form of cashout pushes is a good idea.

Until he explains how free Intel is anything other than an incentive to stay docked and wait for a ping but is rather going to inspire pvpers to chase farmers because they now get a ping telling them what they already had a p.good expectation of.

Then his solutions don't solve the problems he sees, and his asserted outcomes are just a fantasy.

As for timer rollbacks and dual timers. There are problems with both. These were a player suggestion to fix kite evasion farming. CCP went the nuclear option and changed Plex capture mechanics entirely killing pure evasion kite farming so the need for these was not as urgent. However, to avoid the impact that both these have on legit PvP in system pushes and honest small scale scuffles I'd suggest a 3rd option. Very simply, plexes reset 20 to 30 minutes after the last time any fw player visited them.

It might feel like a long time, but the vast majority of farmers are pretty easy to deter. You just have to sink their isk per hour a little.
ALUCARD 1208
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2017-02-28 08:30:58 UTC
wooosh all these words and no one has pointed out that at this moment system occupancy means nothing since the introduction of citadels, One of the main mechanics of FW the system lockouts have now been mitigated.

Yes they do create content but it takes core gameplay away from FW in a big way because it just turns it into batfone central or TZ tanking.

Only reason to own a system at this moment in time is just for tier levels may aswell leave the grunt work to farmers
Perkutor Jakuard
Los violentos de Kenny
#113 - 2017-02-28 09:04:18 UTC
Plexes are much more than just occupancy switchers, there is a population of neutrals, pirates, that visit them just looking for fights and fw pilots to farm a bit while doing pvp.

This is already happening is not an invention. I suggested to decouple sov because is the only way that pure farmers will not matters in sov changes. Maybe it shouldn't be decoupled, just lowering their influence in some way.

And is curiouse to me how CCP changed the mechanics of plexes and low sec lost a part of their population, and that population was not only rabbit farmers. And that changes really made things worst for sov, people that was doing a few mediums in frigates to earn lps, suddenly they have to do 4 or 5 novices creating even more influence in sov than before.

Lowering the isk ratio will increase the number of plexes conquested. Most of "pure farmers" are people semi-afk, farmers not interested in pvp, and pvp newbies who doesn't fight while farming because they know they have little posibilities to win a combat against a veteran and more skilled player, that is not going to change.

I agree than "automatic intel" is not good for content, this intel must be gathered playing in the space not sitting in a station.

Rollback timers I think will do the same, defenders will clear the plex and will sit in the station again just because the timer will be reset.

I wonder if defenders needs to earrn more iskies ? is good they deplex a system, staying in a plex is offering pvp posibilities, but it is ridiculous the pay ratio you got deplexing a system. This is something that CCP intentionally did maybe to make sov changes more dynamics.
Perkutor Jakuard
Los violentos de Kenny
#114 - 2017-02-28 09:07:31 UTC
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
wooosh all these words and no one has pointed out that at this moment system occupancy means nothing since the introduction of citadels, One of the main mechanics of FW the system lockouts have now been mitigated.

Yes they do create content but it takes core gameplay away from FW in a big way because it just turns it into batfone central or TZ tanking.

Only reason to own a system at this moment in time is just for tier levels may aswell leave the grunt work to farmers


No mate, stations still are a interesting for having a market, ( there is litte citadels with markets ) and to get missions.
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Space-Brewery-Association
Local Is Primary
#115 - 2017-02-28 14:01:19 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
+1 It's amazing how members of JUSTK have the best insight into FW.


...warning...warning....notorious GalMil circle jerk imminent.....you have 5 seconds to reach minimum safe distance.


Damn forums and "too many quotes" I have summarized..

You reference:
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
"Smooth out Tier system and fix payouts for PVP at existing level 5 payouts."

and then you post:
X Gallentius wrote:
+"Here's another great observation wrt how isk/lp balances out tier levels. "



The balancing isk/lp of factions being in tier 1 is a smokescreen. When you balance out the LP generation by dissuading "flip-flop" militia movement you bring some stablitiy to the markets and instead the ebb and flow of the market becomes a consequence of the supply and demand of the items available, not the faction tier level!


Then
X Gallentius wrote:
"Most of us get it - the ones who are actually in FW."


WTF really!! Do you not think people who are posting have given FW a great deal of time and there might just be a reason they're not in FW right now?

Thanatos Marathon wrote:
dual timers seems like a more elegant solution than timer rollbacks.


I do not agree that this is a conclusion, much as Thanatos has posted, it seems to him to be a more elegant solution. I think there are pro's and con's to both solutions. I'd live with either if CCP were just to try and implement a few of the well regarded suggestions.

I think you have to consider both warzones as well as the many play-styles apparent in Faction Warfare. I think some posts appear to forget that one warzone has flourished at the expense of the other.

This is all inconsequential until someone can get CCP to admit that they might have more subscribers playing in Faction Warfare if it was given a decent review and an expansion. It should not be ignored than many "veterans", bitter vets and those with increasing RL pressures end up in FW before they quit altogether.

The system could support players with only limited hours of game time too.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"

Boozbaz
Brutor Clan
#116 - 2017-02-28 14:17:02 UTC
Thank you for calling out that bs circle jerk. It was getting a little uncomfortable in here.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
#117 - 2017-02-28 16:16:50 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
kills and VP being related and all that. It's as if the FW plexing mechanic encourages fights, or something...


and i agree, but the plexing mechanic is to flip/defend systems, is it not? i know warzone ocupancy is ****** right now, but isn't it the main reason we are in FW cause of this whole gameplay?

if plexes be removed from warzone occupancy mechanic (and will just be a marker in space for fights as Perkutor Jakuard suggested), how can there be fights if nobody, esp. FW dudes, will go there in the first place...

Agreed. Everything hinges on e-peen of a critical mass of (pvp'ing) players wanting to take/defend certain systems. That leads to guys sitting in plexes, which leads to others attacking those plexes too. Which, of course, leads to lots of pvp.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
#118 - 2017-02-28 16:23:15 UTC
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:
The system could support players with only limited hours of game time too.

What're you talking about? I guess if you want FW to support your Dreadnaught level lifestyle you're right. But the isk generation in FW is more than enough to support a FW lifestyle.

Worst Case Isk Generation: Run two plexes at Tier 1 (20 minutes), get a faction frigate. That's all you need to participate in FW.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#119 - 2017-02-28 18:21:13 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:
The system could support players with only limited hours of game time too.

What're you talking about? I guess if you want FW to support your Dreadnaught level lifestyle you're right. But the isk generation in FW is more than enough to support a FW lifestyle.

Worst Case Isk Generation: Run two plexes at Tier 1 (20 minutes), get a faction frigate. That's all you need to participate in FW.



I didn't read his comment as saying support players iskwise but rather give them something fun and somewhat meaningful to do without allot downtime waiting for fleets etc.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
#120 - 2017-02-28 19:57:57 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:
The system could support players with only limited hours of game time too.

What're you talking about? I guess if you want FW to support your Dreadnaught level lifestyle you're right. But the isk generation in FW is more than enough to support a FW lifestyle.

Worst Case Isk Generation: Run two plexes at Tier 1 (20 minutes), get a faction frigate. That's all you need to participate in FW.



I didn't read his comment as saying support players iskwise but rather give them something fun and somewhat meaningful to do without allot downtime waiting for fleets etc.
Fighting in plexes is not fun?