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[March] Balance Tweaks: Fighters, Supercarriers & Burst Projectors

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CCP Larrikin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2017-02-23 09:48:53 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Larrikin
Hi m8s,

In March, we're releasing a number of balance tweaks and we would love your feedback.

FIGHTERS
We'd like to increase the potential counter-play options vs fighters. We're going to do this by increasing their signature radius which makes them a little easier to hit. They are currently around the small-medium drone range. This will put them in the same size category as heavy drones.
Additionally, we're giving Shadow fighters a balance pass.

Changes:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority) - Signature Radius: 80 (+43)
  • Light Fighters (Attack) - Signature Radius: 100 (+59)
  • Support Fighters - Signature Radius: 120 (+80)
  • Heavy Fighters (Attack) - Signature Radius: 110 (+60)
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range) - Signature Radius: 120 (+60)
  • Shadows - Signature Radius: 100 (+55)
  • Shadows - EM Damage: 200 (+40)
  • Shadows - Thermal Damage: 200 (+40)

These changes bring Fighters closer in-line with the signature of Heavy Drones.
Lastly, there was a bug when our AI evaluated the threat of fighters. NPCs didn't consider fighters as threatening as they should have. This bug has now been fixed, and NPCs will more often shoot at fighters.
You may also want to check out this thread about brand new fighter hotkeys (thanks Five-0!)


SUPERCARRIERS
After our discussions with the CSM, they brought up the state of the Wyvern fighter hangar bay (and shield supers in general). While we'll re-asses the state of shield supers after the release of Shield Slaves, we think their points about fighter hangar bays had some merit.

Changes:
  • Wyvern Fighter Hangar Bay): 90,000 (+10,000) m3
  • Hel Fighter Hangar Bay: 110,000 (+10,000) m3


BURST PROJECTORS
We're going to increase the effect duration of burst projectors. The difficulty in using them doesn't really justify their existing small effect time.

Changes:
  • ECM Jammer Burst Projector Effect Duration: 40 (+10) seconds
  • Sensor Dampening Burst Projector Effect Duration: 60 (+30) seconds
  • Weapon Disruption Burst Projector Effect Duration: 60 (+30) seconds
  • Target Illumination Burst Projector Effect Duration: 60 (+30) seconds
  • Warp Disruption Burst Projector Effect Duration: 40 (+20) seconds
  • Stasis Webification Burst Projector Effect Duration: 40 (+20) seconds

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin
CCP Larrikin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2017-02-23 15:29:56 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Larrikin
Questions & Answers

Q:Regarding the increased fighter signature & bug fix, have you thought about the impact to PvE?
A: Yes, and run many test :) We believe that carrier ratting will continue to be viable after this change. Balanced carrier ratting is part of the goal of this change, and we'll be watching the results of this change closely, ready to iterate as needed.

Q:Could the fighter UI show the HP of the damaged fighter?
A: This won't be coming in March, but it is something we're looking into! :)

Q:Its annoying when fighters stop after killing a target!
A: We recognise that fighter behavior isn't ideal. Its something we'd like to iterate on in the future.

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin
lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#3 - 2017-02-23 21:02:47 UTC  |  Edited by: lanyaie
This has been a bad day for all of my ships..

Support Fighters - Signature Radius: 120 (+80)


Why did support fighters get such a massive increase? Especially considering there's only 3 of them in a squadron, why weren't they brought in line with regular light fighters but instead heavy fighters? Also, the only useful support fighter is the Siren, why have you not done a balance pass on the other ones? There's absolutely no reason to use the other ones currently as one would rather have the fighter hangar space

clipper shore wrote:
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Spaceprincess

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clipper shore
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2017-02-23 21:02:53 UTC
first
Favonius85
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2017-02-23 21:06:38 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

NPCs will more often shoot at fighters.


Haha, really? Roll
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2017-02-23 21:13:27 UTC
Burst Projectors

That time should be quadrupled at least.

40 sec warp bubble - LOL - no thanks

The rest are just as laughable and they will get used no more than they do now, which is probably about zero
Cade Windstalker
#7 - 2017-02-23 21:15:09 UTC
Any sort of vague ETA on Shield Slaves? They've been mentioned like they're just around the corner since roughly the Shadows of the Serpent event like 8 months ago.

Also won't the increased sig radius and the threat changes compound on one another? I know a lot of NPCs pick targets at least partly based on sig radius so I would think there would be a least some multiplicative effect here.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2017-02-23 21:15:14 UTC
Way to buff goons more :(
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2017-02-23 21:18:32 UTC
Glad to see the poor Wyvern shown some love. Thanks!

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Jay Amazingness
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2017-02-23 21:19:28 UTC
Nice, this makes the wyverns fighter bay a little more usable. Any word on adding more types of faction fibos with different abilities?

CEO of serious space alliance I too am gay, a member of the Memeperium
Miyamoto Uroki
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#11 - 2017-02-23 21:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Miyamoto Uroki
Excellent change for the signature changes for fighters. Now if you could make them a little less opressive in terms of applying dps to mwding cruisers? that would bring them back into balance imho
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2017-02-23 21:25:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
"Lastly, there was a bug when our AI evaluated the threat of fighters. NPCs didn't consider fighters as threatening as they should have. This bug has now been fixed, and NPCs will more often shoot at fighters."

Are you freaking serious? Do you know how many times in missions fighters eat s#$& because of the horrible buggy way fighters interact with NPC's already? Try going from an entire squadron of fighters to having them completely alpha'd off field without hardly any way to have them MWD back to you. This includes mission ewar effects on complete squadrons as you watch an entire squadron die to web effects through an MWD cycle. Ever try running a Fortress without an entire squadron dying? Try it.


I remember when the new fighter mechanics were first introduced and dozens of people who used carriers for PvE were shocked at just how badly fighters were eliminated off grid without any sort of way to have them return through npc aggression. Maybe you guys need to actually play this game instead of doing rediculous changes when the UI for fighters and fighter control are so buggy and messed up already. We've petitioned submitted bug reports and just lived with these horrible UI issues ever since the changes were released. Players have been patient and NOW you are going to ramp up NPC aggression on a UI layout and mechanic that is heavily bugged and complained about?

I mean I know you guys want to eventually eliminate how PvE is done in this game entirely and we've all known about the nerf coming to running missions and sites in capitals was coming but this isn't the way to do it by just having squadrons wiped off and agressed by rats as soon as you land on grid and launch them.
Eris Tsasa
Fweddit
Free Range Chikuns
#13 - 2017-02-23 21:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Eris Tsasa
I just have to ask. Really? Fighters are already incredibly easy to web and melt. They're so squishy, at least give them an ehp buff, a single web when they're out of scoop range of your carrier means if they manage to return, you'll have lost half. A single npc frigate can easily chew through them.

Also, burst projectors. Please, reduce cycle time. Already at max skills it's 6 minutes of cycle, the entire time with a weapons timer, then another minute for timer to cycle away. During that time can't refit, de-agress, ect. Also the 10s warmup beacon telling people where it'll land and tiny sphere of influence make them pretty useless. Please, make a few more changes.
OverLord V1C70RY
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2017-02-23 21:32:40 UTC
**counter-play options vs fighters**

i dont like this because it will affect ratting as well. fighters get enough agro as it is
Swoop McFly
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2017-02-23 21:33:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Swoop McFly
CCP Larrikin wrote:
This bug has now been fixed, and NPCs will more often shoot at fighters.


I think you made a typo there. Should say less often.
They already aggro my fighters all the time when ratting.
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#16 - 2017-02-23 21:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Callagan
https://media.giphy.com/media/1Z02vuppxP1Pa/giphy.gif

plz ccp looks like you're on a dank good change spree, can you buff medium projectile next ?
Blood Animus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2017-02-23 21:35:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Blood Animus
Not sure why all the fighters were nerfed so hard when they're already easy to counter, and support fighters are especially screwed. Could've at least given them a slight tracking/application bonus to compensate for having to pull them every 4 seconds against anything with a web.

Back to support fighters, anyway to reduce the m3 to 1000 per instead of 3000 so I can carry more when they die as soon as they hit the field?
Bobmon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2017-02-23 21:48:58 UTC
Yeeey Finally :) now time to watch the communitty responds :)

@BobmonEVE - BOBMON FOR CSM 12
Douevenliftbro
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2017-02-23 22:04:23 UTC
It isn't April fools yet. Stop ccp.

iscariot sister
Doomheim
#20 - 2017-02-23 22:05:19 UTC
Does anyone att CCP even play eve? have you seen the air superiority kill light fighters? its murder,and now you make their sig bigger?
Also for ratting throwing away fighters is basicly you nerfing it to the ground,meanwhile the FAXs carriers are a joke where you have to active tank them and cant spidertank so you need full faction or officer fit to even make it mediocre on the field and it will still just go splat,but instead you nerf fighters...play the game!
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