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[March] Balance Tweaks: Focused Warp Scrambling Script

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l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#61 - 2017-02-23 15:54:24 UTC
Trajan Unknown wrote:


HiCs in space. Well, you are on some grid with a fleet supported by a HiC or several. So either you run or you have enough to think that it´s fine to fight. I don´t see any reason why someone could not avoid a HiC point in "open space".


The same old argument was used to defend Skynet, skynet 2.0 and offgrid booster. "You don't have to fight! Just run"

Yes, you can. But if a ship is so strong, that you just need to bring one of them to scare the enemy away then maybe it's not optimal in a pvp game ;-)

Trajan Unknown wrote:


here are a lot of things that will completely ruin your day when you fly solo or in a small gang but people should not cry all day but improve.


And running as you suggested will help me improve? :P
No, we adapted. But we have been flying 100mn cruisers for over 2 years now. Partly because of hics, partly because of Fighter buff. And I'm sick of it. It's just boring.
It's always nice if the meta gets shaking up and you have to adapt all over again :)

Remember that this is a game. I hope this helps you to understand my point of view.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#62 - 2017-02-23 15:56:26 UTC
Galendil wrote:
No one I know is asking for this. Why?

Cancer Garmurs and Orthrus already own the spacelanes


Keeping a class dominant over a whole play style just because two ships are out of place is not a good solution.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#63 - 2017-02-23 15:56:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Messoroz
All I see here is tears about people crying they can no longer counter kiting with an I win button.

Are people so bad they can't use an Lachesis or Arazu in a gang effectively to counter nano gangs?

I've played this game since 2009. I've been in countless nanogangs. Effective use of an Arazu or Lachesis was always possible agaisnt nano gangs. In fact nano vs nano gang with both sides having one of the two ships always made perhaps the most amazing fights in this game with the amount of strategy and planning immense to be able not to die instantly and pick off the enemy.
Ugly Eric
Fistful of Finns
#64 - 2017-02-23 15:56:54 UTC
Hi

As a frequent abuser of a kiting devoter, I find this change very welcome. Well, not sure of the proposion, but the fact that I could fly a 400m isk cruiser with 37pointsomething km scram while doing 400ish dps to that very same range and above, while having deacent tank and good mobility was totally overpowered. That's from a abusive point of view.

As a kiter, I also feel the 37pointsomething km scram was totally overpowered to the defenders of kiting. It has become the standard "togo" ship of any homedefencefleet. Thus we, the kiters have had to come up with other **** to counter that.

The fact is, that we "the evil kiters" are going to come up with ways to keep kiting. You can create a rorqual with 200km infinitipointscram90%web bubble and we will find a way to counter that. That however lessens the options by a ton. The homedefencefleets still can have their 40ish km scram with a faction scram linked lach/arazu. A ship that can even get reps while scramming.

However, I would like to see hics to get a niche. As we now have any warp disruptor able to point titans and supers and as we have interdictors who drops bubbles and command dessies who can teleport the said bubbles where-ever, I feel the hic should have a role to fullfill. While it still remains a good tackler to a supercapital in lowsek, in 0.0 a dictor performs way better in most cases due to it's mobility and due to hictors inability to receive reps while bubbling/pointing. Maybe some racial ewar bubbles? Broadsword doing web bubbles, where a phobos is doing what hics do now, where a onyx is having an ecm bubble and a devoter a neutbubble. And they should be able to receive reps atleast on some level.
Alice Fury
Nox Explorator
#65 - 2017-02-23 16:02:12 UTC
RIP HIC's. Other ships do their only job better now. This sucks, I put a lot of time in to getting HIC V and T2 Bubbles just for the Scram range.

CCP what would be the reason to undock a HIC now? Anti-Booshing? Better hope you can get on that CD with your short range before they get their boosh off. Is that what HIC's are relegated to now, countering a destroyer?

Bummer
Lucian James
THORN Syndicate
Northern Coalition.
#66 - 2017-02-23 16:02:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucian James
Ugly Eric wrote:
Hi

As a kiter, I also feel the 37pointsomething km scram was totally overpowered to the defenders of kiting. It has become the standard "togo" ship of any homedefencefleet. Thus we, the kiters have had to come up with other **** to counter that.



I've played this game 9 years in big alliances and not once have i see a home defense fleet go out with a HIC in it.

Plus how are one or two hics going to help out a defense fleet against kyters? By trapping one or two of a WHOLE fleet of kyters?

And what idiot kyters are kyting under 35-40km anyway? Outside of neut/hic/bonused-web range is WHERE YOU KYTE.

What are you smoking? Can you pass it this way?


I thought this game was for smart people.
Whippy Whip
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#67 - 2017-02-23 16:02:30 UTC
who needs hics when you have an invulnerable version in the rorq

#ccpbalancing
Atlan Dallocort
Know your Role
#68 - 2017-02-23 16:03:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Atlan Dallocort
Edit. nevermind. Dont read EVE stuff at work and you don't miss the half. The changes are good. Thx CCP.
Tomoko Sunji
White Square.
#69 - 2017-02-23 16:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tomoko Sunji
Alice Fury wrote:
RIP HIC's. Other ships do their only job better now. This sucks, I put a lot of time in to getting HIC V and T2 Bubbles just for the Scram range.

CCP what would be the reason to undock a HIC now? Anti-Booshing? Better hope you can get on that CD with your short range before they get their boosh off. Is that what HIC's are relegated to now, countering a destroyer?

Bummer


Mobile bubble with 25km radius that can scramble at 20km, is it that hard to figure out ?

Atlan Dallocort wrote:
The nerf is a bit too much in my opinion. The combination of scram effect and 40k infinite point was the problem, not the 40k range. Hics aren't that fast. A small scale gang can just burn out of range if the effect is only like a warp disruptor (they are already able to deal with Lachs huh?). But tackling caps is getting harder. And thats not necessary because the capability of caps to clear tackle became already a lot better (HAW guns, fighter/fibo application).



You'll still be able to point supers at the same range.
Scath Bererund
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2017-02-23 16:05:31 UTC
As always its **** the players who come up with a counter to one of thier pet project ships.

Nothing that counters the mordus legion can possably be balenced!
ViolentDesire
78934223
#71 - 2017-02-23 16:09:04 UTC
If the intention is to reduce the range - which is the case, heat for more range doesn't make any sense.
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
#72 - 2017-02-23 16:10:11 UTC
omg why? HICs r pretty expensive and only chance how to point these annoying kite plague around and it is nerfed :-(

sry for my English :-(
Demolishar
United Aggression
#73 - 2017-02-23 16:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Demolishar
Give it a heat bonus to tackle range then pls...

Add some officer warp disruption field generators too.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#74 - 2017-02-23 16:11:41 UTC
I see alot of people talking about the Mordus Legion ships. If they are the problem then the sensible thing is to nerf them rather than have a class of ship that counters a wide array of ships.

Ted McManfist wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Hans Downherpantz wrote:
brawling dies again


People kite because they don't want to get blobbed to oblivion. It allows them to disengage when the enemy throws a couple of caps after a handful of subcaps.


People kite because they are risk averse, not because they fear the blob.


It is pretty much the same thing. People don't want to waste their ship on a fight they got no chance of winning.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2017-02-23 16:11:57 UTC
Glad to see this change. This was discussed during the original HIC rebalance, so I'm glad to see it revisited.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#76 - 2017-02-23 16:12:13 UTC
Lucy Callagan wrote:
I like how the people complaining about this pretty much have as much knowledge about small gang as a Malian Camel breeder about sailing.

On the other side are the "experts" who think HICs cannot be countered. Because jams are kind of a religious taboo for them.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#77 - 2017-02-23 16:12:40 UTC
Scath Bererund wrote:
As always its **** the players who come up with a counter to one of thier pet project ships.

Nothing that counters the mordus legion can possably be balenced!


Its funny, cause its not mordus that got countered hard, but brawly BS and BC as a HIC renders MJD mobility useless. You can cry about MJD being a cheap way to escape, but i counter that your gang was just too cowardly to commit and scram me, and instead relied on kiting (the very thing people like you are bitching and moaning about) with a 100k EHP, double bubble, 37km scram HIC.

Its funny, but sad that you think this is only about mordus being oppressed.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Atlas Aurilia
The League Of Unwanted Capsuleers
#78 - 2017-02-23 16:16:09 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:


Yes, you can. But if a ship is so strong, that you just need to bring one of them to scare the enemy away then maybe it's not optimal in a pvp game ;-)


So titans are not optimal in the game?
Fifth Blade
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#79 - 2017-02-23 16:17:46 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Lucy Callagan wrote:
I like how the people complaining about this pretty much have as much knowledge about small gang as a Malian Camel breeder about sailing.

On the other side are the "experts" who think HICs cannot be countered. Because jams are kind of a religious taboo for them.

I love these responses because they apply to no one. Lucy does the same thing we do. Damp it, or use a prop mod unaffected by scrams. The only effect it has on us is to make us fly more oppressive ships to kill you with.

A little help for your future attempts at making a coherent argument on the subject - damps are much more effective than jams ;)
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#80 - 2017-02-23 16:17:47 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Lucy Callagan wrote:
I like how the people complaining about this pretty much have as much knowledge about small gang as a Malian Camel breeder about sailing.

On the other side are the "experts" who think HICs cannot be countered. Because jams are kind of a religious taboo for them.


HICs have already been countered with 100mn ships and damps. It just gets boring after a while.

❤️️💛💚💙💜