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[March] Balance Tweaks: Focused Warp Scrambling Script

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Author
l0rd carlos
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#81 - 2017-02-23 16:20:30 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
Give it a heat bonus to tackle range then pls...


So, that will not change anything then?

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

l0rd carlos
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#82 - 2017-02-23 16:22:39 UTC
Atlas Aurilia wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:


Yes, you can. But if a ship is so strong, that you just need to bring one of them to scare the enemy away then maybe it's not optimal in a pvp game ;-)


So titans are not optimal in the game?


I don't know, I have no experience with those.
What play style or class do they oppress?

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2017-02-23 16:26:31 UTC
Fifth Blade wrote:
Skia Aumer wrote:
Lucy Callagan wrote:
I like how the people complaining about this pretty much have as much knowledge about small gang as a Malian Camel breeder about sailing.

On the other side are the "experts" who think HICs cannot be countered. Because jams are kind of a religious taboo for them.

I love these responses because they apply to no one. Lucy does the same thing we do...

Lucy is an ignorant ****, that's all I wanted to say. Both sides have their right to express their opinion.
Respect your opponents and dont through insults without putting an argument in it.
Trajan Unknown
Reikoku
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#84 - 2017-02-23 16:32:54 UTC
InSTiiNK Loutte wrote:
After giving the ability to Rorqual to be SuperHictors, and you know retrograte HICs to be **** pointers.

I find the idea absolutely ridiculous.

In my honest opinion, you CCP, better keep proper gamerplay to proper ship types, and the last ship that needs a nerf is a HIC, and the first, is the Rorqual.
So before Nerfing any other ships, nerf rorquals to give them back their natural gameplay, mining.
At the same time, I find this very funny from a Pandemic Legion guy, upgrading Rorquals, and now they don't need HICs anymore, they downgrade them. :)

"My job here is done"

Best Regards,
InSTiiNK Loutte



Well, Hyde has actually nothing to do with PL outside of being in there. And he is in there because his friends joined PL.
He flys solo all the time and mostly Battleships so of course he wants HiCs to get nerfed. They **** with his MJD and since he is slow as **** too he can´t run away just MJD away except there´s a HiC. Pretty certain he has nothing to do with Rorquals at all. He is like Suitonia pretty much who joined PL for god knows what reason but just kept doing what he did before. Now he is in Goons or was last time. But from what I can tell he´s just doing his own **** and has nothing to do with Goons. Same with Hyde so when Hyde is pushing for something it´s from a solo player view, not from a PL view.
Suitonia
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#85 - 2017-02-23 16:35:15 UTC
I think 40% of current HIC scram range would be more reasonable;
15km T2 / 15.75km Faction.

But this is much better than the current cancer so thanks.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

Pterry Dactyl Kasterborous
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#86 - 2017-02-23 16:42:25 UTC
yeah, nerf HICs into the ground while the rorqual remains a better HIC than actual HICs

ggwp CCP
Trajan Unknown
Reikoku
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#87 - 2017-02-23 16:43:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Trajan Unknown
Suitonia wrote:
I think 40% of current HIC scram range would be more reasonable;
15km T2 / 15.75km Faction.

But this is much better than the current cancer so thanks.



Do you have any arguments outside of being touched somewhere by a HiC?



l0rd carlos wrote:
Trajan Unknown wrote:


HiCs in space. Well, you are on some grid with a fleet supported by a HiC or several. So either you run or you have enough to think that it´s fine to fight. I don´t see any reason why someone could not avoid a HiC point in "open space".


The same old argument was used to defend Skynet, skynet 2.0 and offgrid booster. "You don't have to fight! Just run"

Yes, you can. But if a ship is so strong, that you just need to bring one of them to scare the enemy away then maybe it's not optimal in a pvp game ;-)

Trajan Unknown wrote:


here are a lot of things that will completely ruin your day when you fly solo or in a small gang but people should not cry all day but improve.


And running as you suggested will help me improve? :P
No, we adapted. But we have been flying 100mn cruisers for over 2 years now. Partly because of hics, partly because of Fighter buff. And I'm sick of it. It's just boring.
It's always nice if the meta gets shaking up and you have to adapt all over again :)

Remember that this is a game. I hope this helps you to understand my point of view.



Skynet was a complete different thing and it had to be nerfed no question.

HiCs? They are ******* limited in what they can do and when I said "run" I meant you don´t have to commit at all. A HiC has no real power projection over a a grid, let alone system. Fighters were pretty much a "shut the whole system down" thingy. Outside of plexes that means. If you want to commit to a fight with a HiC do it else simply don´t. So please, where is your argument? At least give me a weak one. The "meta needs changing" is no balance argument at all it barely is one for gameplay.
Posts before me mentioned some "hard counters" to HiCs already so there is something.
Running 100mn cruisers because of HiCs sound weird to be honest. Running 100mn cruisers for several reasons sounds legit. They are a pain in the ass to pin down except you have "web superiority" and can apply them in time. Else you can fuc*k*ng run MWDs and commit. After all it´s no different from getting caught in close range cruisers by a nano-gang with ceptor support. Can´t touch the ceptors really, can´t run either. Only thing you can do is die without losing your s*hi*t and that´s fine.
l0rd carlos
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#88 - 2017-02-23 16:49:04 UTC
Pterry Dactyl Kasterborous wrote:
yeah, nerf HICs into the ground while the rorqual remains a better HIC than actual HICs

ggwp CCP

Again, just because a single ships is out of whack, we should not stop balancing other classes or modules.

We can do both :)

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#89 - 2017-02-23 16:49:14 UTC
Less HIC cancer is good.

I'd like to see some more interesting gameplay vs just letting it cycle on a target though.

Maybe give the scram script a longer range than what you're proposing, say 40km, with a combined grapple effect, then give it a 10 second activation and slap a 30 - 40 second reactivation on it.

That way it's powerful for snatching targets, and allowing other ships to get on top of them to land hard tackle, but really lacking when it comes to holding a ship down entirely by itself.

Non-scripted HIC beams would continue to have infi-points.
Tomoko Sunji
Drama Sutra Incorporated.
#90 - 2017-02-23 16:54:27 UTC
Pterry Dactyl Kasterborous wrote:
yeah, nerf HICs into the ground while the rorqual remains a better HIC than actual HICs

ggwp CCP


HIC still have 40km point range, Learn to read a patchnote.
Suitonia
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#91 - 2017-02-23 16:55:57 UTC
Alice Fury wrote:
RIP HIC's. Other ships do their only job better now. This sucks, I put a lot of time in to getting HIC V and T2 Bubbles just for the Scram range.

CCP what would be the reason to undock a HIC now? Anti-Booshing? Better hope you can get on that CD with your short range before they get their boosh off. Is that what HIC's are relegated to now, countering a destroyer?

Bummer


Please, you don't need 39.4km scram to shut down a CD lets be real.
Most people who aren't bad at the game are going to have CDs at pings and fleet warp them onto targets, or use solo expanded probe fit if you want to boosh properly, or warp down to wrecks etc. As well as doing spearfishing from 100km+ with multiple CDs, HICs don't help protect against that at all.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

Timm3h
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#92 - 2017-02-23 16:57:48 UTC
*tips orthrus*
M' gameplay
Capqu
Half Empty
#93 - 2017-02-23 16:58:27 UTC
u talk about oppressive meta and yet the orthrus isnt mentioned

hmmMMM

thinking emoji
Mareck001
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#94 - 2017-02-23 16:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mareck001
I'm getting tired of these special snowflakes screwing up the game and nerfing what works fine. You want to make some changes to the balance of the game to improve game play? Look at the Rorqual and Garmor. You're pandering to some solo streamer and his buddies who don't know squat about how small gang combat goes down in the REAL 95% of us that play the game on a daily basis.
For a majority of us in null and losec areas, small gang and even home defense fleets, HICs are not a requirement or really needed. We find dictors a better opyion.
Capqu
Half Empty
#95 - 2017-02-23 17:00:19 UTC
Capqu wrote:
u talk about oppressive meta and yet the orthrus isnt mentioned

hmmMMM

thinking emoji



also you essentially just buffed the orthrus btw
Suitonia
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#96 - 2017-02-23 17:01:09 UTC
Timm3h wrote:
*tips orthrus*
M' gameplay


Unironically HIC scrams just made Orthrus' much more prolific, because it's one of the few kiting ships that can project outside HIC Scram range while also tackling ships outside HIC scram range. What HICs killed was solo brawling with MJDs entirely, cheap, affordable or accessible kiting ships (RIP anyone trying to just take out a nano thorax, cane or stabber etc.).

Flying 100mn stuff + needing a Keres to even undock if you want to do non Orthrus stuff is getting boring.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

Capqu
Half Empty
#97 - 2017-02-23 17:02:08 UTC
Capqu wrote:
Capqu wrote:
u talk about oppressive meta and yet the orthrus isnt mentioned

hmmMMM

thinking emoji



also you essentially just buffed the orthrus btw


and it didnt need a buff
l0rd carlos
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#98 - 2017-02-23 17:04:11 UTC
Trajan Unknown wrote:


Skynet was a complete different thing and it had to be nerfed no question.

HiCs? They are ******* limited in what they can do and when I said "run" I meant you don´t have to commit at all. A HiC has no real power projection over a a grid, let alone system. Fighters were pretty much a "shut the whole system down" thingy. Outside of plexes that means. If you want to commit to a fight with a HiC do it else simply don´t. So please, where is your argument? At least give me a weak one. The "meta needs changing" is no balance argument at all it barely is one for gameplay.
Posts before me mentioned some "hard counters" to HiCs already so there is something.
Running 100mn cruisers because of HiCs sound weird to be honest. Running 100mn cruisers for several reasons sounds legit. They are a pain in the ass to pin down except you have "web superiority" and can apply them in time. Else you can fuc*k*ng run MWDs and commit. After all it´s no different from getting caught in close range cruisers by a nano-gang with ceptor support. Can´t touch the ceptors really, can´t run either. Only thing you can do is die without losing your s*hi*t and that´s fine.


Yes, I know skynet was different, I just said the arguments from the abusers where the same.

My argument is that HiCs are so strong they alone can be in power to shift the meta. They make the gameplay partly stale.

What is the argument for keeping the long range scram?

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

Romvex
TURN LEFT
HYDRA RELOADED
#99 - 2017-02-23 17:06:19 UTC
There are some fantastically stupid posts here. Do you realize a Lachesis/Arazu or a Huginn/Rapier will do the exact same thing as a hic when countering kiters? Long webs do the job even better. Try actually doing something other than ratting in Esoteria and pressing F1 every now and then before crying that others won't stoop to your level of play by simply dying to a blob of clueless pubbies.
Michael Oskold
Adversity.
Snuffed Out
#100 - 2017-02-23 17:06:27 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
Timm3h wrote:
*tips orthrus*
M' gameplay


Unironically HIC scrams just made Orthrus' much more prolific, because it's one of the few kiting ships that can project outside HIC Scram range while also tackling ships outside HIC scram range. What HICs killed was solo brawling with MJDs entirely, cheap, affordable or accessible kiting ships (RIP anyone trying to just take out a nano thorax, cane or stabber etc.).

Flying 100mn stuff + needing a Keres to even undock if you want to do non Orthrus stuff is getting boring.


pretty much this. 36k scrams made plenty of things auto trash worthy. On ships that boast huge tanks and almost always run sebos to counter ecm, it was very frustrating to deal with. There was no counter gameplay, it was just "ggwp"