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Balancing Feedback: Hybrid Turrets

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Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1761 - 2012-01-20 23:56:10 UTC
Magosian wrote:
BAD THINGS:
  • There has been no recent communication from CCP in this thread. The aforementioned Null changes have made it to SiSi, and while these changes look promising, there was no dev-to-player discussion about it at all. In fact, there has been NO discussion between devs and players about the proposed evolution of hybrid buffs since mid-December. The "NeXGate" Scandal and its subsequent and apologetic letter from CCP CEO clearly mentioned lack of communication was the core issue which caused a fissure to expand between the playerbase and CCP. I don't understand how something which happened so recently seems to have already been forgotten...[/b][/u][/list]



    • The GOOD thing is: We now know definitely that mentioned letter just was marketing blablah!
    MeBiatch
    GRR GOONS
    #1762 - 2012-01-21 03:29:25 UTC
    hmm how about changing the way heat works on hybrids? instead of firing one charge per volley you shoot two? (since hybrids use plasma you just shove in more in the case for blasters and stack two shots for rails) so pretty much when heat is on you are doubling your dps and alpha... i think this could be the "je ne sais quoi" that would make hybrids "winsauce"....

    There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

    Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
    Nikuno
    Atomic Heroes
    #1763 - 2012-01-21 09:44:16 UTC
    Hamox wrote:
    Magosian wrote:
    BAD THINGS:
  • There has been no recent communication from CCP in this thread. The aforementioned Null changes have made it to SiSi, and while these changes look promising, there was no dev-to-player discussion about it at all. In fact, there has been NO discussion between devs and players about the proposed evolution of hybrid buffs since mid-December. The "NeXGate" Scandal and its subsequent and apologetic letter from CCP CEO clearly mentioned lack of communication was the core issue which caused a fissure to expand between the playerbase and CCP. I don't understand how something which happened so recently seems to have already been forgotten...[/b][/u][/list]



    • The GOOD thing is: We now know definitely that mentioned letter just was marketing blablah!


    Not entirely true. Take CCP Ytterbium for example - he manages to take the time to respond in those threads where he has oversight of the task in hand. This seems to be a problem with CCP Tallest - he is ridiculously bad at communicating. At the very least, if he can't bear to talk with us he should have someone else do it for him. His behaviour in this regard is appalling.
    Morgan North
    Dark-Rising
    Wrecking Machine.
    #1764 - 2012-01-21 10:50:34 UTC
    There's 90 page of "this works" and then followed by "that doesn't work". There's a history of autocannons being overpowered by paying attention to "howmost people think they should be". Then we have winmatar online. Ergo, no responses means that the person in question took a step out (he did went on a vacation) and found a threadnought filled with pointless argumentation about people who think they know but might nor really know.

    And I fly blasters. All i want is more speed to catch a cynabal.
    Fon Revedhort
    Monks of War
    #1765 - 2012-01-21 10:55:34 UTC
    Nikuno wrote:

    Not entirely true. Take CCP Ytterbium for example - he manages to take the time to respond in those threads where he has oversight of the task in hand. This seems to be a problem with CCP Tallest - he is ridiculously bad at communicating. At the very least, if he can't bear to talk with us he should have someone else do it for him. His behaviour in this regard is appalling.

    Not even close to how appalling are clueless tards who, while even unable to post with their mains (ashamed of themselves, apparently), dare to make arrogant demands which are bound to make hybrids no less than OP.

    CCP's doing just fine in terms of sheer hybrid stats.

    "Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
    tEcHnOkRaT
    WipeOut Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #1766 - 2012-01-21 11:25:13 UTC
    Fon Revedhort wrote:
    Nikuno wrote:

    Not entirely true. Take CCP Ytterbium for example - he manages to take the time to respond in those threads where he has oversight of the task in hand. This seems to be a problem with CCP Tallest - he is ridiculously bad at communicating. At the very least, if he can't bear to talk with us he should have someone else do it for him. His behaviour in this regard is appalling.

    Not even close to how appalling are clueless tards who, while even unable to post with their mains (ashamed of themselves, apparently), dare to make arrogant demands which are bound to make hybrids no less than OP.

    CCP's doing just fine in terms of sheer hybrid stats.



    this speciment seems sometimes to be funny
    Hamox
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #1767 - 2012-01-21 13:15:33 UTC
    Fon Revedhort wrote:
    Nikuno wrote:

    Not entirely true. Take CCP Ytterbium for example - he manages to take the time to respond in those threads where he has oversight of the task in hand. This seems to be a problem with CCP Tallest - he is ridiculously bad at communicating. At the very least, if he can't bear to talk with us he should have someone else do it for him. His behaviour in this regard is appalling.

    Not even close to how appalling are clueless tards who, while even unable to post with their mains (ashamed of themselves, apparently), dare to make arrogant demands which are bound to make hybrids no less than OP.

    CCP's doing just fine in terms of sheer hybrid stats.


    We have changes on Sisi without any comment. I do not care about hybrids anymore but lets take the marketing blablah letter of the CEO. Is it too much to just make ONE f... post like:
    "We have changed on Sisi blabla from 1.25 to blabla 1.4 blabla to see how it comes out blabla..."
    Would have taken them (Tallest or who ever) about 5 minutes of time.

    Instead nowbody knows how this story will go on. NOBODY! Is this thread worth our time? Are hybrids worth our time? Is this company worth our time? Is this game worth our time? This is by far the worst threating of customers / community that I have ever seen. And then there is the CEO letter.

    This leads me to the conclusion:
    The CEO letter is not only MARKETING BLABLAH, it is also a prove that the CEO thinks his clients are stupid idiots who believe everything and for whom stupid marketing blablah in form of a letter is enough to make them happy again. He propably believes that this letter is enough for the moment and in a few months the community will forgot everything so they can start from beginning.

    So yes, I do not care about hybrids anymore or the overall balancing becouse I believe they will never do it.
    All they can do is MARKETING BLABLAH, create some stupid videos like "I was there", give us Captains quarters nobody really needs and introduce a new shop where you can buy useless crap for Aurums becouse they want to make more money with selling plex. Instead they should improve the game experience and balance their ******* broken crap to attrackt more players and keep them longer to the game. But instead of intelligent decisions we only see MARKETING BLABLAH and crap.
    Magosian
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #1768 - 2012-01-22 00:35:55 UTC
    I just found this in passing:

    http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3381

    The very first bullet addresses the potential power creep of Null ammo with respect to turret size. They don't mention any details of the variation, so it's still up in the air, but at least it shows the devs are aware of possible power creep from a blanket change.

    I stand by my original statement: those kinds of changes should have been mentioned here, in a dev sanctioned/created thread, along with the DETAILS of such changes. Tuesday is right around the corner and I simply don't have the time to test this stuff on SiSi :(

    At any rate, I'm looking forward to Null ammo now. Well done, CCP.
    Dare Devel
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #1769 - 2012-01-22 08:10:54 UTC
    With the current state of large/medium blaster and large/medium rails there is proof enough that the so called hybrid rebalance is a big fail.

    Only 3 alliances have used rail fit ROKH with more fail than success. Which proves that even the seasoned(insert other adjectives as elite, veteren, etc) players have found it uncompetitive to either abbadon/tengu/mael/drake/cane/zealot.

    I have seen some hybrid platform HACs been used (from dotlan) and fail easily against a kiting BC fleet.
    This was a for gone conclusion anyway.

    The null buff do not affect much but in a range of 1-4 kms max. Being good at PVP will not make the guns perform any better.
    This I am only stating facts about fleet battles and PVE not Skirmish.

    If being worse makes you happy then what can I say.
    tEcHnOkRaT
    WipeOut Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #1770 - 2012-01-22 11:24:54 UTC
    if after the null buff is nothing to come then u can only petition for galente / caldari sp reimburstment Evil
    Af'ilia
    Af'ilia te's
    #1771 - 2012-01-22 11:43:46 UTC
    I can hyrbrid fit an omen and get more dps out of it than pulse.

    What. The. ****. I think you re-balanced a little too much...
    Af'ilia
    Af'ilia te's
    #1772 - 2012-01-22 11:45:20 UTC
    Dare Devel wrote:
    With the current state of large/medium blaster and large/medium rails there is proof enough that the so called hybrid rebalance is a big fail.

    Only 3 alliances have used rail fit ROKH with more fail than success. Which proves that even the seasoned(insert other adjectives as elite, veteren, etc) players have found it uncompetitive to either abbadon/tengu/mael/drake/cane/zealot.

    I have seen some hybrid platform HACs been used (from dotlan) and fail easily against a kiting BC fleet.
    This was a for gone conclusion anyway.

    The null buff do not affect much but in a range of 1-4 kms max. Being good at PVP will not make the guns perform any better.
    This I am only stating facts about fleet battles and PVE not Skirmish.

    If being worse makes you happy then what can I say.



    Not all pvp involves 0.0 warfare tactics of fielding 500 bs, 400 hacs, and 200 randoms on a field at once.
    tEcHnOkRaT
    WipeOut Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #1773 - 2012-01-22 11:53:18 UTC
    Af'ilia wrote:
    Dare Devel wrote:
    With the current state of large/medium blaster and large/medium rails there is proof enough that the so called hybrid rebalance is a big fail.

    Only 3 alliances have used rail fit ROKH with more fail than success. Which proves that even the seasoned(insert other adjectives as elite, veteren, etc) players have found it uncompetitive to either abbadon/tengu/mael/drake/cane/zealot.

    I have seen some hybrid platform HACs been used (from dotlan) and fail easily against a kiting BC fleet.
    This was a for gone conclusion anyway.

    The null buff do not affect much but in a range of 1-4 kms max. Being good at PVP will not make the guns perform any better.
    This I am only stating facts about fleet battles and PVE not Skirmish.

    If being worse makes you happy then what can I say.



    Not all pvp involves 0.0 warfare tactics of fielding 500 bs, 400 hacs, and 200 randoms on a field at once.


    i never heard of such a tactic
    if u have 500 BS u have also a logistics squad and some heavy interdictors
    if u go hac u also have some logistics interceptors and interdictors

    but u will never see something wath u just described especially 200 randoms
    there are no randoms in a fleet everything is tought trugh and if u dont fallow prosedure u will just get kiked out of the ally
    tEcHnOkRaT
    WipeOut Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #1774 - 2012-01-22 12:04:08 UTC
    Af'ilia wrote:
    I can hyrbrid fit an omen and get more dps out of it than pulse.

    What. The. ****. I think you re-balanced a little too much...



    if u think this would be so great then just go fit one get some kills in ur OP Omen of doom fitted with void blasters

    after that if u live to tell us storys how great it was
    someone might even listen insted loughing after reading the 6 first words
    Tanya Powers
    Doomheim
    #1775 - 2012-01-22 13:30:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
    Af'ilia wrote:
    I can hyrbrid fit an omen and get more dps out of it than pulse.

    What. The. ****. I think you re-balanced a little too much...



    Troll spotted.

    Do you even realize Pulse Myrmidon or Auto Canons Myrmidon is preferred to Hybrids Myrmidon and both with shield buffer dish way far more dps than any Hybrids/armor tank set up? -at least until this last buff that might well for once change this stupid situation.

    You should train your laser skills after lvl1 or just stop trolling?

    Side note about small hybrids:

    Small hybrids were already not bad, not the kings of the hill but quite good, ships needed buffs for sure but small hybrids were fine. Now we can have frigates with weapons shooting as far as battleships short range weapons (30km+/- with gatlings but even more with 125mm), this is ridiculous.
    No small weapon short range at least should be capable of hit something beyond scram range (8.5 to 13km), and long range past 15/17km.

    Then I just look at my Daredevil with light Neutrons and read again his bonus "200% hybrids damage" ...

    Really CCP, you don't listen (read) a crap of what we just say (write].
    Hamox
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #1776 - 2012-01-22 15:48:33 UTC
    Tanya Powers wrote:
    Af'ilia wrote:
    I can hyrbrid fit an omen and get more dps out of it than pulse.

    What. The. ****. I think you re-balanced a little too much...



    Troll spotted.

    Do you even realize Pulse Myrmidon or Auto Canons Myrmidon is preferred to Hybrids Myrmidon and both with shield buffer dish way far more dps than any Hybrids/armor tank set up? -at least until this last buff that might well for once change this stupid situation.

    You should train your laser skills after lvl1 or just stop trolling?

    Side note about small hybrids:

    Small hybrids were already not bad, not the kings of the hill but quite good, ships needed buffs for sure but small hybrids were fine. Now we can have frigates with weapons shooting as far as battleships short range weapons (30km+/- with gatlings but even more with 125mm), this is ridiculous.
    No small weapon short range at least should be capable of hit something beyond scram range (8.5 to 13km), and long range past 15/17km.

    Then I just look at my Daredevil with light Neutrons and read again his bonus "200% hybrids damage" ...

    Really CCP, you don't listen (read) a crap of what we just say (write].


    The problem with the small blasters was mentioned in the very beginning of this thread BEFORE all this changes (and btw is a good proof that we do not want an OP blaster ship, it is CCP who fails all the time).
    Also it was mentioned that those changes will not balance anything at medium and large blasters.
    May I remind you that CCP CEO wanted to listen more to.... .... ah forgett it...
    Nikuno
    Atomic Heroes
    #1777 - 2012-01-22 19:29:27 UTC
    http://killboard.the-godfathers.com/index.php/kill_detail/180828/

    Nice to see someone decided to try a thorax fleet. We engaged at zero on a gate, we were all arty/beam fit. Sad thing isn't the outcome, which was a bit lopsided, but that only half of these guys even considered it worth fitting hybrids to their ships. The rest felt that projectiles would obviously be better - and if that doesn't say something about the state of hybrids then nothing does Ugh
    Magosian
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #1778 - 2012-01-22 20:05:45 UTC
    Nikuno wrote:
    http://killboard.the-godfathers.com/index.php/kill_detail/180828/

    Nice to see someone decided to try a thorax fleet. We engaged at zero on a gate, we were all arty/beam fit. Sad thing isn't the outcome, which was a bit lopsided, but that only half of these guys even considered it worth fitting hybrids to their ships. The rest felt that projectiles would obviously be better - and if that doesn't say something about the state of hybrids then nothing does Ugh


    What I find even more convincing is the sheer amount of tornados on the left side....

    Yea, I need about half a second to figure out why....
    tEcHnOkRaT
    WipeOut Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #1779 - 2012-01-22 20:06:17 UTC
    Nikuno wrote:
    http://killboard.the-godfathers.com/index.php/kill_detail/180828/

    Nice to see someone decided to try a thorax fleet. We engaged at zero on a gate, we were all arty/beam fit. Sad thing isn't the outcome, which was a bit lopsided, but that only half of these guys even considered it worth fitting hybrids to their ships. The rest felt that projectiles would obviously be better - and if that doesn't say something about the state of hybrids then nothing does Ugh



    everyone knows it exept some newbies who think void blasters with there imense dps are good for anything
    just when u try using them the actual dps goes down to zero

    and ccp's solution for it was to increase the null range by 15%
    to me it looks like a bad joke, like they would say put ur galenete up ur ...........

    as there is no communication, no coments on what are there further plans towards galenete rebalancing, nothing
    things seem to be "normal" again, just like before the ccp ceo letter
    tEcHnOkRaT
    WipeOut Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #1780 - 2012-01-22 20:11:27 UTC
    Magosian wrote:
    Nikuno wrote:
    http://killboard.the-godfathers.com/index.php/kill_detail/180828/

    Nice to see someone decided to try a thorax fleet. We engaged at zero on a gate, we were all arty/beam fit. Sad thing isn't the outcome, which was a bit lopsided, but that only half of these guys even considered it worth fitting hybrids to their ships. The rest felt that projectiles would obviously be better - and if that doesn't say something about the state of hybrids then nothing does Ugh


    What I find even more convincing is the sheer amount of tornados on the left side....

    Yea, I need about half a second to figure out why....


    so the drakes get nerfed soon
    and u will get a all out minmatar diversity in low and null sec roams

    i would say the ccp devs are doing a great job