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Watch Lists in High Sec

Author
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#221 - 2016-12-03 16:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Dracvlad wrote:
So how many constellations do you want to keep tabs on, how many war targets do you have, do you focus on one constellation or a region? Do you operate in multiple regions? How long does it take you to fly through a region, what happens if someone logs in after you have passed through? So many questions, so many answers and so many variations... Your network can be as big or as small as you need it to be.

Also, you say you operate in Minmatar- and Gallente space. Minmatar is comparatively small with just 2 hisec regions: Heimatar and Metropolis. Heimatar has 12 constellations, Metropolis has 23 and there are a few hisec systems in Molden Heath as well. And the war targets are in no way forced to stay in Metropolis or Heimatar, so you will want to have some of those things in the other regions as well. When you say you want to be informed about enemy activity in Minmatar space, just how many of those "OAs" do you plan on pooping out? I mean, you could just drop one in Rens, one in Hek and one wherever they used to operate before the war, but if they aren't stupid (which, admittedly quite a few are), they won't stay where they are known to usually hang around and they will steer well clear of tradehubs and pipes during a war. If they are stupid enough to fly down the pipe, I can again just gatecamp there instead of putting up a structure, which is the situation we currently have.

So, 10? 20? 30 defenseless structures, 10-30 million each that I have to constantly turn off and on so they have at least a chance of surviving? How about no? How is that different from flying through space trying to find one logged off target after the other in terms of tedium and frustration?

Dracvlad wrote:
So how many constellations do you want to keep tabs on, how many war targets do you have, do you focus on one constellation or a region? Do you operate in multiple regions? How long does it take you to fly through a region, what happens if someone logs in after you have passed through? So many questions, so many answers and so many variations... Your network can be as big or as small as you need it to be.

Of course it's multiple regions with a hisec war, because nobody stays just in one constellation or even region, which is exactly why a constellation is nothing in the grand scheme of things. And no, a structure that is meant to be left alone several jumps away with no means of defending it is not a conflict driver, but a dummy.

Dracvlad wrote:
People have to find them and they can be blown up while operating, the objective of that was not to make it so certain people at the top of the hisec food chain would not dominate with timers

So, you want to give them something to shoot that cannot be defended, because they may not be powerful enouth to shoot something that can be? How is that a conflict driver?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#222 - 2016-12-03 16:22:11 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
So how many constellations do you want to keep tabs on, how many war targets do you have, do you focus on one constellation or a region? Do you operate in multiple regions? How long does it take you to fly through a region, what happens if someone logs in after you have passed through? So many questions, so many answers and so many variations... Your network can be as big or as small as you need it to be.

Also, you say you operate in Minmatar- and Gallente space. Minmatar is comparatively small with just 2 hisec regions: Heimatar and Metropolis. Heimatar has 12 constellations, Metropolis has 23 and there are a few hisec systems in Molden Heath as well. And the war targets are in no way forced to stay in Metropolis or Heimatar, so you will want to have some of those things in the other regions as well. When you say you want to be informed about enemy activity in Minmatar space, just how many of those "OAs" do you plan on pooping out? I mean, you could just drop one in Rens, one in Hek and one wherever they used to operate before the war, but if they aren't stupid (which, admittedly quite a few are), they won't stay where they are known to usually hang around and they will steer well clear of tradehubs and pipes during a war. If they are stupid enough to fly down the pipe, I can again just gatecamp there instead of putting up a structure, which is the situation we currently have.

So, 10? 20? 30 defenseless structures, 10-30 million each that I have to constantly turn off and on so they have at least a chance of surviving? How about no? How is that different from flying through space trying to find one logged off target after the other in terms of tedium and frustration?

Dracvlad wrote:
So how many constellations do you want to keep tabs on, how many war targets do you have, do you focus on one constellation or a region? Do you operate in multiple regions? How long does it take you to fly through a region, what happens if someone logs in after you have passed through? So many questions, so many answers and so many variations... Your network can be as big or as small as you need it to be.

Of course it's multiple regions with a hisec war, because nobody stays just in one constellation or even region, which is exactly why a constellation is nothing in the grand scheme of things. And no, a structure that is meant to be left alone several jumps away with no means of defending it is not a conflict driver, but a dummy.

Dracvlad wrote:
People have to find them and they can be blown up while operating, the objective of that was not to make it so certain people at the top of the hisec food chain would not dominate with timers

So, you want to give them something to shoot that cannot be defended, because they may not be powerful enouth to shoot something that can be? How is that a conflict driver?


It was another player who was interested in Mimatar space, again it is not an I win, you have to do some work, you are on your own so it scares you perhaps. Eve after all is a team game.

The should have a certain level of EHP, but if they are linked to timers when operating how would Complaints Department do when faced off against Vendetta? The objective was to create something that required work and effort, so if you want a per region one then it has to be really expensive and have timers and is not usable when reinforced, perhaps different capabilities based on size, who knows, CCP will have to work that through, problem is they tend to go too much along timers that suit people who can dominate.

Also my objective was to get hisec carebears able to resist by going into space to strike a blow, that was the important angle to my suggestion, it is really important that people can resist in some way and cause damage, because it also affects blanket war decs. That is why, when designing a system one has to look at game balance and benefits...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#223 - 2016-12-03 17:46:17 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
So how many constellations do you want to keep tabs on, how many war targets do you have, do you focus on one constellation or a region? Do you operate in multiple regions? How long does it take you to fly through a region, what happens if someone logs in after you have passed through? So many questions, so many answers and so many variations... Your network can be as big or as small as you need it to be.

Also, you say you operate in Minmatar- and Gallente space. Minmatar is comparatively small with just 2 hisec regions: Heimatar and Metropolis. Heimatar has 12 constellations, Metropolis has 23 and there are a few hisec systems in Molden Heath as well. And the war targets are in no way forced to stay in Metropolis or Heimatar, so you will want to have some of those things in the other regions as well. When you say you want to be informed about enemy activity in Minmatar space, just how many of those "OAs" do you plan on pooping out? I mean, you could just drop one in Rens, one in Hek and one wherever they used to operate before the war, but if they aren't stupid (which, admittedly quite a few are), they won't stay where they are known to usually hang around and they will steer well clear of tradehubs and pipes during a war. If they are stupid enough to fly down the pipe, I can again just gatecamp there instead of putting up a structure, which is the situation we currently have.

So, 10? 20? 30 defenseless structures, 10-30 million each that I have to constantly turn off and on so they have at least a chance of surviving? How about no? How is that different from flying through space trying to find one logged off target after the other in terms of tedium and frustration?

Dracvlad wrote:
So how many constellations do you want to keep tabs on, how many war targets do you have, do you focus on one constellation or a region? Do you operate in multiple regions? How long does it take you to fly through a region, what happens if someone logs in after you have passed through? So many questions, so many answers and so many variations... Your network can be as big or as small as you need it to be.

Of course it's multiple regions with a hisec war, because nobody stays just in one constellation or even region, which is exactly why a constellation is nothing in the grand scheme of things. And no, a structure that is meant to be left alone several jumps away with no means of defending it is not a conflict driver, but a dummy.

Dracvlad wrote:
People have to find them and they can be blown up while operating, the objective of that was not to make it so certain people at the top of the hisec food chain would not dominate with timers

So, you want to give them something to shoot that cannot be defended, because they may not be powerful enouth to shoot something that can be? How is that a conflict driver?



He knows its bad which is why he wants it. He pops up all over these forums pushing for less pvp via nerfs.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#224 - 2016-12-03 17:57:23 UTC
Yup, too many quotes in that post, grabbed the wrong one.

Dracvlad wrote:
Also my objective was to get hisec carebears able to resist by going into space to strike a blow, that was the important angle to my suggestion, it is really important that people can resist in some way and cause damage, because it also affects blanket war decs. That is why, when designing a system one has to look at game balance and benefits...

That is understood. However, giving them a target that cannot realistically be defended if used in any way that makes it worthwhile is not a solution. If I can reach the structure in time it means I am nearby, so I will be able to tell if targets are in the area anyway. If I have to scramble half way through new eden to defend it, and they can just disperse if I manage to make it in time and enter local before they are done, that's not a conflict driver. If entity A is no match for entity B, and entity A does not want to fight, then they won't fight, target practice dummy or no.

The fact of the matter is that there are stronger and weaker entities in Eve. The stronger ones will typically win in a fight, and this really doesn't need to be fixed. It is working as intended.

However - right now, the situation is that the attacker doesn't need to put anything on the line to start a war. So it would be great to add some sort of structure that can be attacked to the war mechanic. If the issue with not being able to tell if a target is online or not could be fixed with that as well, it would be even better. However, making it so that it cannot be defended properly won't solve anything. It won't get a fight out of people who don't want or are unable to fight, and it will give an unfair advantage to those who are able to fight, but may not be terribly interested in doing so. It could serve to give defenders a target to shoot at at least, but if it cannot be defended if used over long distances and is useless over short distances, almost nobody will use it anyway.

Really, if a structure gets implemented, it needs to be a proper structure, with onlining and offlining timers, fuel requirements, reinforcement cycles and some sort of tangible benefit that is worth the effort.

And in the end, just adding a line to the locators that tells us whether a target is online or not will probably the easiest solution. I mean, checking multiple targets is still quite a time investment even with locators, and gaining access to locators is not actually quick either. It would be nice to give the other party a means to disrupt that intel in one way or another, so a structure would be best, but I'd rather have something that works at all within the next decade.
Salvos Rhoska
#225 - 2016-12-03 18:01:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Just as trivia, I estimate about a 10% chance to find a Combat Sig in the systems I fly.
To get worthwhile loot from them is about from 10% of those.
Albeit I fly quite trafficked and "safe" space, and could probably increase % if I took more risk

I dont mean this as a direct comparison to the relative % chance of Locating a character whilst they are online, as baltec1 pointed out at between 3-10%.

Just found myself relating to that % chance interestingly from my own different type of activity, as I have no experience hunting players.



Im glad universal watchlist, as free data that devalues intel to zero, is gone.

But I think the change was made for the "wrong" reasons, and therefore without duly considering the consequences for certain content creators.

From what Ive read, it seems reasonable to me that the response from Locator Agents should specify if the target is offline.

Paying to use the Locator Agent thus should grant a glimpse into this info that Watchlist used to offer.
Ergo: To know whether the target is online atm, or not.

This intel is no longer free. I see no reason therefore why it should not be available to those that pay for it.
Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#226 - 2016-12-03 22:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Starrakatt
Neuntausend wrote:
Starrakatt wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
A structure that tells me if there's a target active in all of 5 systems that I can scout without it in 2-3 minutes is rather useless.

That would be useful though, when you are not there to watch said Constellation. For example, I usually operate in Gallente and Minmatar space, having the structure notify me of WT activity in there would be pretty valuable when I'm 30 jumps away.

I'd go with that.

But then I would have to leave a 30M structure with no reinforcement timer (according to how it was proposed) 30 jumps away with no means to defend it. That's not risk, that's silly, and it's not a conflict driver but a target training dummy. If that was what we are after, we could just propose a deployable akin to a mobile depot. Just scans the grid it stands on and notifies me whenever an enemy passes through. Costs 500k and I can just poop those all over the place. Basically sensor mines. It would get the job done at least.
To clarify, I would go with such a structure system, not saying said structures need to be 30m apiece and/or show up as a warpable beacon.

Obviously, if it shows as a warpable beacon, then it just tick off the WT to go to ground or avoid the place and is basically useless.

However, if one can deploy the thing like a Mobile Depot in a safespot, and thus hide from view, unless a dedicated effort (Probing) is made to find such structures (not even knowing if it is shootable if the WT have multiple wars going on), then that would be fine. Just make such a structure Concord protected unless a vaild War Target.

I am agreeing to the concept, not necessarily the mechanics as proposed.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#227 - 2016-12-03 23:08:07 UTC
RIP Watchlist...I will miss you little buddy.

I know that the drop of the watchlist was to protect those soft capital pilots from going pop, but it did have a major effect on another part of Eve and that was the highsec wars. Now unlike the highsec mercs, I was a solo pilot who did highsec wars for fun and enjoyment, but also for educating others ignorant about them in order to show them how to protect themselves.

Everyone seems to be all over the fact that it was free intel. In essence, they were right. It was since it told me that they were online and that I could run a locater agent on them to determine their location. They also say it was not fair whatsoever because there was no defense against it...

And that is where they are wrong. There is a defense against it. It is called: Using the watchlist.

But Morgan, I don't understand...

It is simple. The tools and mechanics I used to locate my targets were also available to them.

They had access to evewho.com, in where they could look up who was in the corporation and place them on the watch list. They had access to the locater agents, just like I did so they could run a locater agent on me and determine where I was located in order to come for me or head somewhere else. They could have access to neutral alts in NPC corporations to keep an eye on me and what I was doing. They had access to the other free intel called "Local".

The problem is these people did not use these tools available to them in order to protect themselves. So after my wars with them, I would take the time to teach them about it so they could use these tools themselves to protect from future wardecs from other corporations and even the mercenary alliances.

I understand the removal of the watch list, but what wasn't fair was taking something that was vital to our profession and just removed it without adjusting a little bit for compensating the loss of it. Make the locater agents ask for more isk, longer wait, etc....anything to alleviate the pain of hunting ghost wartargets.

Now you see posts about people complaining about the massive amounts of wardecs happening. Well yeah, the mercs have to do that in order to keep a lot of wartargets available for their pilots to shoot. That was the tradeoff for the loss of the watch list. That is what you wanted, now deal with the result.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#228 - 2016-12-04 01:44:16 UTC
We did ,to be fair, tell them this would happen.
Months before it did too.
Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#229 - 2016-12-04 04:12:14 UTC
Holeysheet1, is that you?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#230 - 2016-12-04 08:56:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Starrakatt wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
Starrakatt wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
A structure that tells me if there's a target active in all of 5 systems that I can scout without it in 2-3 minutes is rather useless.

That would be useful though, when you are not there to watch said Constellation. For example, I usually operate in Gallente and Minmatar space, having the structure notify me of WT activity in there would be pretty valuable when I'm 30 jumps away.

I'd go with that.

But then I would have to leave a 30M structure with no reinforcement timer (according to how it was proposed) 30 jumps away with no means to defend it. That's not risk, that's silly, and it's not a conflict driver but a target training dummy. If that was what we are after, we could just propose a deployable akin to a mobile depot. Just scans the grid it stands on and notifies me whenever an enemy passes through. Costs 500k and I can just poop those all over the place. Basically sensor mines. It would get the job done at least.
To clarify, I would go with such a structure system, not saying said structures need to be 30m apiece and/or show up as a warpable beacon.

Obviously, if it shows as a warpable beacon, then it just tick off the WT to go to ground or avoid the place and is basically useless.

However, if one can deploy the thing like a Mobile Depot in a safespot, and thus hide from view, unless a dedicated effort (Probing) is made to find such structures (not even knowing if it is shootable if the WT have multiple wars going on), then that would be fine. Just make such a structure Concord protected unless a vaild War Target.

I am agreeing to the concept, not necessarily the mechanics as proposed.


It would need to be probed down in my view and yes CONCORD protected from my suggestion.

PS Those blanket war decs were already happening IMO

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#231 - 2016-12-04 09:08:55 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
RIP Watchlist...I will miss you little buddy.

I know that the drop of the watchlist was to protect those soft capital pilots from going pop, but it did have a major effect on another part of Eve and that was the highsec wars. Now unlike the highsec mercs, I was a solo pilot who did highsec wars for fun and enjoyment, but also for educating others ignorant about them in order to show them how to protect themselves.

Everyone seems to be all over the fact that it was free intel. In essence, they were right. It was since it told me that they were online and that I could run a locater agent on them to determine their location. They also say it was not fair whatsoever because there was no defense against it...

And that is where they are wrong. There is a defense against it. It is called: Using the watchlist.

But Morgan, I don't understand...

It is simple. The tools and mechanics I used to locate my targets were also available to them.

They had access to evewho.com, in where they could look up who was in the corporation and place them on the watch list. They had access to the locater agents, just like I did so they could run a locater agent on me and determine where I was located in order to come for me or head somewhere else. They could have access to neutral alts in NPC corporations to keep an eye on me and what I was doing. They had access to the other free intel called "Local".

The problem is these people did not use these tools available to them in order to protect themselves. So after my wars with them, I would take the time to teach them about it so they could use these tools themselves to protect from future wardecs from other corporations and even the mercenary alliances.

I understand the removal of the watch list, but what wasn't fair was taking something that was vital to our profession and just removed it without adjusting a little bit for compensating the loss of it. Make the locater agents ask for more isk, longer wait, etc....anything to alleviate the pain of hunting ghost wartargets.

Now you see posts about people complaining about the massive amounts of wardecs happening. Well yeah, the mercs have to do that in order to keep a lot of wartargets available for their pilots to shoot. That was the tradeoff for the loss of the watch list. That is what you wanted, now deal with the result.


And people did use the watch list, but I ran out of space and it takes a lot of work keeping tabs of the drama llama's in hisec war dec entities. The sheer number of them is too much, it is information overload. For you who seems to be a solo type war deccer it is true, but against bigger entities it ain't worth much. And by the way I have locator agents too, so who do I pick lets look at the most active player in three different merc entities, hmmmm, you see the issue?

Watch lists were also used as a defence against hotdrops...

And the blanket war decs were happening before IMO not everyone agrees with me on that , but it is what I saw.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#232 - 2016-12-04 13:51:51 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Yup, too many quotes in that post, grabbed the wrong one.

Dracvlad wrote:
Also my objective was to get hisec carebears able to resist by going into space to strike a blow, that was the important angle to my suggestion, it is really important that people can resist in some way and cause damage, because it also affects blanket war decs. That is why, when designing a system one has to look at game balance and benefits...

That is understood. However, giving them a target that cannot realistically be defended if used in any way that makes it worthwhile is not a solution. If I can reach the structure in time it means I am nearby, so I will be able to tell if targets are in the area anyway. If I have to scramble half way through new eden to defend it, and they can just disperse if I manage to make it in time and enter local before they are done, that's not a conflict driver. If entity A is no match for entity B, and entity A does not want to fight, then they won't fight, target practice dummy or no.

The fact of the matter is that there are stronger and weaker entities in Eve. The stronger ones will typically win in a fight, and this really doesn't need to be fixed. It is working as intended.

However - right now, the situation is that the attacker doesn't need to put anything on the line to start a war. So it would be great to add some sort of structure that can be attacked to the war mechanic. If the issue with not being able to tell if a target is online or not could be fixed with that as well, it would be even better. However, making it so that it cannot be defended properly won't solve anything. It won't get a fight out of people who don't want or are unable to fight, and it will give an unfair advantage to those who are able to fight, but may not be terribly interested in doing so. It could serve to give defenders a target to shoot at at least, but if it cannot be defended if used over long distances and is useless over short distances, almost nobody will use it anyway.

Really, if a structure gets implemented, it needs to be a proper structure, with onlining and offlining timers, fuel requirements, reinforcement cycles and some sort of tangible benefit that is worth the effort.

And in the end, just adding a line to the locators that tells us whether a target is online or not will probably the easiest solution. I mean, checking multiple targets is still quite a time investment even with locators, and gaining access to locators is not actually quick either. It would be nice to give the other party a means to disrupt that intel in one way or another, so a structure would be best, but I'd rather have something that works at all within the next decade.


I hear what you say, however there had to be value in attacking it, and it gives back some of the watch list . Vimsy pointed out quite rightly that focusing on a RF timer will just hand it to the biggest and strongest. Also have you started to hunt structures over a constellation, you should do it, gets especially annoying the more there is. The thing is that only those with attitude will go after them which is important.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#233 - 2016-12-04 14:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Morgan Agrivar
Dracvlad wrote:
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
My post...


And people did use the watch list, but I ran out of space and it takes a lot of work keeping tabs of the drama llama's in hisec war dec entities. The sheer number of them is too much, it is information overload. For you who seems to be a solo type war deccer it is true, but against bigger entities it ain't worth much. And by the way I have locator agents too, so who do I pick lets look at the most active player in three different merc entities, hmmmm, you see the issue?

Watch lists were also used as a defence against hotdrops...

And the blanket war decs were happening before IMO not everyone agrees with me on that , but it is what I saw.

In regards to being wardecced by the mercenary companies, I have said that there is an easy solution to dealing with them.

Stay at least two jumps from any hub and don't fly through Uedama.

Blanket wars were happening but was a small amount, not unlike the onslaught of blanket wardecs that occurred right after the removal of the watch list, which Ralph did accurately predict would occur. The first wardec I got when I was in a corporation was from VMG. How or why they decced us isn't the point, the fact they wardecced us while we were living in a C5 wormhole and rarely came out told me that they were just going down the list of corporations and hitting that "Declare War" button because they could.

Personally, in my solo corporation, I have been wardecced twice by VMG and once by Archetype I believe. In both wars against VMG, I actually had a PvP Vexor that I actually hunted them with. First war, I almost got one of them sitting afk on a highsec gate but he moved out of the way of one of my bumps off of the gate and bailed on me (it was a good move) or otherwise his Svipul would have been space toast. In the second war, I couldn't find any of them and after talking with Natural Clonekiller, we pretty much decided to just let the war run out because I couldn't get fights because I was the wrong TZ apparently than their pilots.

In all honesty, I have no fear from any of the highsec merc alliances. With the removal of the watch list, there is no need to be. Just keep an eye on local is all you need to do. Who I would have feared is someone like me who did hunt specific targets with precision and stealth, always knowing where my enemies were. Why do you think I went all over highsec and did PvE missions for L4 locater agents for every region? It sure wasn't the view...
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#234 - 2016-12-04 16:50:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
My post...


And people did use the watch list, but I ran out of space and it takes a lot of work keeping tabs of the drama llama's in hisec war dec entities. The sheer number of them is too much, it is information overload. For you who seems to be a solo type war deccer it is true, but against bigger entities it ain't worth much. And by the way I have locator agents too, so who do I pick lets look at the most active player in three different merc entities, hmmmm, you see the issue?

Watch lists were also used as a defence against hotdrops...

And the blanket war decs were happening before IMO not everyone agrees with me on that , but it is what I saw.

In regards to being wardecced by the mercenary companies, I have said that there is an easy solution to dealing with them.

Stay at least two jumps from any hub and don't fly through Uedama.

Blanket wars were happening but was a small amount, not unlike the onslaught of blanket wardecs that occurred right after the removal of the watch list, which Ralph did accurately predict would occur. The first wardec I got when I was in a corporation was from VMG. How or why they decced us isn't the point, the fact they wardecced us while we were living in a C5 wormhole and rarely came out told me that they were just going down the list of corporations and hitting that "Declare War" button because they could.

Personally, in my solo corporation, I have been wardecced twice by VMG and once by Archetype I believe. In both wars against VMG, I actually had a PvP Vexor that I actually hunted them with. First war, I almost got one of them sitting afk on a highsec gate but he moved out of the way of one of my bumps off of the gate and bailed on me (it was a good move) or otherwise his Svipul would have been space toast. In the second war, I couldn't find any of them and after talking with Natural Clonekiller, we pretty much decided to just let the war run out because I couldn't get fights because I was the wrong TZ apparently than their pilots.

In all honesty, I have no fear from any of the highsec merc alliances. With the removal of the watch list, there is no need to be. Just keep an eye on local is all you need to do. Who I would have feared is someone like me who did hunt specific targets with precision and stealth, always knowing where my enemies were. Why do you think I went all over highsec and did PvE missions for L4 locater agents for every region? It sure wasn't the view...


I saw blanket war decs happening before the watch list change, I had a few, it was just because they saw me moving an Orca with a webber or that I passed through local in another case. And because peoople said if you remove the watch list you will get a mass of blanket war decs they then made sure to do that to make a point. I was analysing the mercs for a long period as I liked to see how they work and what they do.

They don't worry me at all, mainly because they are pretty predictable though a couple of the war decs were because of forums and they did make an effort, but I identified their spies and did not give them any chance.

The risk are from trade hubs, some mission hubs and the choke points on the main pipes, I know when and where to be careful or to avoid, and I know where they are vulnerable, which is fun because my next war dec will be against a merc alliance, or more like the next war I will ally on...

What I do need to do is counter the type of ships that I hated dealing with in 0.0, but I have some ideas for that and know I need to improve that part of my game play.

I am trying to get people I know to be less scared of war dec mercs and a few are getting the message, but getting them to start fighting, that will depend on a few things, like showing them an example for a start.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#235 - 2016-12-04 19:38:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Conogan Blitzkreig
I think I should inform you all...that cupcakes are in my pants.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#236 - 2016-12-05 14:38:29 UTC
Conogan Blitzkreig wrote:
I think I should inform you all...that cupcakes are in my pants.


Between your ears perhaps ? Big smile

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Stevn Thomas
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#237 - 2016-12-05 18:39:40 UTC
TheVirus32 wrote:
"mercs" still get plenty of kills sitting in trade hubs and bottlenecks.
Hunting down defenseless prey in other systems (T3C fleet meets the mighty hulk! so much excitement, I wonder who's going to win!) is just harder, but then I don't think permadeccing half of new eden's population for easy kills was in CCP's mind when they implemented wardecs.

Think positively, PUSHx and the like now have more customers! Yay?
Seriously?

You are seriously saying that you cant spot a money sink when the devs roll up on your property, knock Down walls, and dig up your previously perfectly manicured lawn to install a 2m sewer pipe?

Twisted you need to be more paranoid....
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2016-12-07 07:28:36 UTC
DioKahn wrote:
The changes to Watch Lists have affected highsec wars and mercenary work. It's almost annoying just looking for a war target. Camping Jita is not my idea of fun. Locator agents say the same thing whether the target is offline or not. I understand protecting capital pilots in null sec has been the goal of the changes but it's making War boring. I suggest you keep Watch Lists disabled in NULL SEC and working perfectly again in HIGH SEC. Bring back real mercenaries and content to high sec please.


Buhu you have to search your miner in the belt´s with you blingi ship´s and 10 neutral rep alt´s (if something goes wrong) buhu.

-1
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#239 - 2016-12-07 07:36:59 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:
DioKahn wrote:
The changes to Watch Lists have affected highsec wars and mercenary work. It's almost annoying just looking for a war target. Camping Jita is not my idea of fun. Locator agents say the same thing whether the target is offline or not. I understand protecting capital pilots in null sec has been the goal of the changes but it's making War boring. I suggest you keep Watch Lists disabled in NULL SEC and working perfectly again in HIGH SEC. Bring back real mercenaries and content to high sec please.


Buhu you have to search your miner in the belt´s with you blingi ship´s and 10 neutral rep alt´s (if something goes wrong) buhu.

But hey i think you have decleared war on 100 alliances, go declare ware on another 100 so you have more targets.

Be honest you don´t want fights you want a 100 man alliance who are all sitting in hulk´s doing nothing to defend themselfs and kill them all without risk.

-1

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#240 - 2016-12-07 11:26:43 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:
DioKahn wrote:
The changes to Watch Lists have affected highsec wars and mercenary work. It's almost annoying just looking for a war target. Camping Jita is not my idea of fun. Locator agents say the same thing whether the target is offline or not. I understand protecting capital pilots in null sec has been the goal of the changes but it's making War boring. I suggest you keep Watch Lists disabled in NULL SEC and working perfectly again in HIGH SEC. Bring back real mercenaries and content to high sec please.


Buhu you have to search your miner in the belt´s with you blingi ship´s and 10 neutral rep alt´s (if something goes wrong) buhu.

-1


The searching isn't the problem, mercs want to hunt. The issue is on average 90% of a corp/alliance will not be online at any given point and there is currently no way to tell between online and offline players which means mercs are currently chasing targets that are almost always not there.