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Balancing Feedback: Hybrid Turrets

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Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#1721 - 2012-01-18 17:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahz Niverrah
Tanya Powers wrote:
Ho you will excuse us for thinking that a pulse harby able to fully shoot/dms at 45km that manages to be neuted even by a t1 battleship (28km with faction neut), then the harby pilot really sucks.

Please show me this mythical pulse harbinger with 45km optimal.

Since harbingers have to use focused medium pulses due to gimped fitting, mine only has a 20km optimal with scorch. Hell, my legion with heavy pulses only hits to 34km. 45km is the optimal for abaddons with mega pulses, not this fairy tale 60km number that gets kicked around.

I find it funny how everyone who complains that scorch is OP actually has no idea what ranges scorch actually hits at.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#1722 - 2012-01-18 17:23:15 UTC
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
Ho you will excuse us for thinking that a pulse harby able to fully shoot/dms at 45km that manages to be neuted even by a t1 battleship (28km with faction neut), then the harby pilot really sucks.

Please show me this mythical pulse harbinger with 45km optimal.

Since harbingers have to use focused medium pulses due to gimped fitting, mine only has a 20km optimal with scorch. Hell, my legion with heavy pulses only hits to 34km.

I find it funny how everyone who complains that scorch is OP actually has no idea what ranges scorch actually hits at.


Don't you know that the only ships that count are those shield fitted so they can use lows for dps mods? Lol

Everything else is for noobs, sry I will not discuss with you any longer you lack of bit vet attitude Lol
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#1723 - 2012-01-18 17:24:04 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Don't you know that the only ships that count are those shield fitted so they can use lows for dps mods? Lol

Everything else is for noobs, sry I will not discuss with you any longer you lack of bit vet attitude Lol

Touche.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
de4deye
Phantom Space
Space Madness.
#1724 - 2012-01-18 18:52:16 UTC  |  Edited by: de4deye
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
Ho you will excuse us for thinking that a pulse harby able to fully shoot/dms at 45km that manages to be neuted even by a t1 battleship (28km with faction neut), then the harby pilot really sucks.

Please show me this mythical pulse harbinger with 45km optimal.

Since harbingers have to use focused medium pulses due to gimped fitting, mine only has a 20km optimal with scorch. Hell, my legion with heavy pulses only hits to 34km. 45km is the optimal for abaddons with mega pulses, not this fairy tale 60km number that gets kicked around.

I find it funny how everyone who complains that scorch is OP actually has no idea what ranges scorch actually hits at.


Let me elaborate. To find out your effective range on your ship that you will hit good damage at, you Add up your Falloff+Optimal range. 60Km is the range an abaddon reaches for a pilot with moderate skills and 2 tracking computers with no scripts, as is a standard hellcat fitting. A Good pilot will hit around 75+km. If you are only able to hit 45km with an abaddon, you are both fitting wrong and have poor skillpoints.
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#1725 - 2012-01-18 19:01:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahz Niverrah
de4deye wrote:
Let me elaborate. To find out your effective range on your ship that you will hit good damage at, you Add up your Falloff+Optimal range. 60Km is the range an abaddon reaches for a pilot with moderate skills and 2 tracking computers with no scripts, as is a standard hellcat fitting. A Good pilot will hit around 75+km. If you are only able to hit 45km with an abaddon, you are both fitting wrong and have poor skillpoints.

If you want to get technical, it's optimal + (2 * falloff). At optimal + falloff, you're doing 50% damage. Everyone is quoting the Abaddon's paper DPS from EFT, which drops off once optimal is exceeded. WIth max skills, an Abaddon pilot with scorch has a 45km optimal. With 2 tracking computers, it's 52km. Loading range scripts bumps that up to 58km.

Also, you need tons of logi to support Abaddons since they cap themselves out REALLY quickly. How many cap transfers are required to keep arty fleets firing? Yeah.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
de4deye
Phantom Space
Space Madness.
#1726 - 2012-01-18 19:06:44 UTC  |  Edited by: de4deye
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
de4deye wrote:
Let me elaborate. To find out your effective range on your ship that you will hit good damage at, you Add up your Falloff+Optimal range. 60Km is the range an abaddon reaches for a pilot with moderate skills and 2 tracking computers with no scripts, as is a standard hellcat fitting. A Good pilot will hit around 75+km. If you are only able to hit 45km with an abaddon, you are both fitting wrong and have poor skillpoints.

If you want to get technical, it's optimal + (2 * falloff). At optimal + falloff, you're doing 50% damage. Everyone is quoting the Abaddon's paper DPS from EFT, which drops off once optimal is exceeded. WIth max skills, an Abaddon pilot with scorch has a 45km optimal. With 2 tracking computers, it's 52km. At 65km with max skill and 2 TCs, you're doing half damage. So basically, you're wrong.


So you have flown abaddon in large fleets that are hellcat fitted how many times? Roll
I'm sorry that you have no idea what you are talking about and are under the illusion of intelligence, but would you please let people who actually can fly these ships and have flown them and against them many times talk about them. Rather than posting as an EFT warrior who has most likely 0 experience with the ships he is talking about. Just please take your inner thoughts and express them to your brain alone, then rethink again before you repost - otherwise, silence your heretic tongue.

I see in your edit you said that they need cap transfers. Abaddons fit cap boosters to them to keep their cap up, which lasts longer than 90% of the fights I've been in with an abaddon. An abaddon only resorts to cap transfers after it has been in multiple engagements or has ran out of cap boosters due to an engagement that lasted too long.

I'm not trying to down you, It is only that you are simply wrong and are arguing for the sake of argument.
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#1727 - 2012-01-18 19:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahz Niverrah
de4deye wrote:
[So you have flown abaddon in large fleets that are hellcat fitted how many times? Roll
I'm sorry that you have no idea what you are talking about and are under the illusion of intelligence, but would you please let people who actually can fly these ships and have flown them and against them many times talk about them. Rather than posting as an EFT warrior who has most likely 0 experience with the ships he is talking about. Just please take your inner thoughts and express them to your brain alone, then rethink again before you repost - otherwise, silence your heretic tongue.

Dude, you are terrible. Your reply was the equivalent of "NO U". Try using facts next time. It makes you look like less of a ****.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#1728 - 2012-01-18 19:16:18 UTC
de4deye wrote:
[I'm not trying to down you, It is only that you are simply wrong and are arguing for the sake of argument.
Pot, meet kettle.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
de4deye
Phantom Space
Space Madness.
#1729 - 2012-01-18 19:21:24 UTC
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
de4deye wrote:
[So you have flown abaddon in large fleets that are hellcat fitted how many times? Roll
I'm sorry that you have no idea what you are talking about and are under the illusion of intelligence, but would you please let people who actually can fly these ships and have flown them and against them many times talk about them. Rather than posting as an EFT warrior who has most likely 0 experience with the ships he is talking about. Just please take your inner thoughts and express them to your brain alone, then rethink again before you repost - otherwise, silence your heretic tongue.

Dude, you are terrible. Your reply was the equivalent of "NO U". Try using facts next time. It makes you look like less of a ****.

EDIT: Oh, you're a drake blob pilot. Now I get why you hate the abaddon so much. But please, continue to "educate" us.

from your killboard, I see you are an amarr pilot. However you only fly legions 9/10 times it seem and rarely ever touched an abaddon and it has only been in small skirmishes. I fly all ships that the fleet calls for, be it Drakes, Abaddons, Guardians, Scimitars, Basilisks, Falcon, Carrier, or Dread.

Before you continue, I'd like you to know that I do not want Amarr to be nerfed at all, they are fine and nerfing anything is a bad idea. I am only saying that Blasters need a generous optimal and falloff buffing. I lvoe the abaddon, I fly it alot. Recently fleets have been calling for Alpha fleets and Heavy Skirmish sheild fleets more often than Abaddon and guardian fleets. I have no bias toward any race, I just understand that Blasters are gimpy compared to everything else.
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#1730 - 2012-01-18 19:25:01 UTC
de4deye wrote:
I am only saying that Blasters need a generous optimal and falloff buffing.
My concern with buffing blaster range so that it can hit at mega pulse range is the already superior damage and tracking of blasters. If blasters get what would likely be a 2x range buff, would tracking and damage be nerfed?

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
Dare Devel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1731 - 2012-01-18 19:42:29 UTC
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
de4deye wrote:
I am only saying that Blasters need a generous optimal and falloff buffing.
My concern with buffing blaster range so that it can hit at mega pulse range is the already superior damage and tracking of blasters. If blasters get what would likely be a 2x range buff, would tracking and damage be nerfed?



Really I wouldn't mind a damage reduction since that would be fair.
Tracking is fine as it is now.
de4deye
Phantom Space
Space Madness.
#1732 - 2012-01-18 19:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: de4deye
Dare Devel wrote:
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
de4deye wrote:
I am only saying that Blasters need a generous optimal and falloff buffing.
My concern with buffing blaster range so that it can hit at mega pulse range is the already superior damage and tracking of blasters. If blasters get what would likely be a 2x range buff, would tracking and damage be nerfed?



Really I wouldn't mind a damage reduction since that would be fair.
Tracking is fine as it is now.


Yeah, Damage isn't the problem for blasters - Getting in range to do your damage is so tricky that it isn't worth it. Hence why no one flys Gallente anymore. Considering that just about every other race is "Sit back and shoot, Orbit at range", Gallente must approach with no transversal and take all kinds of hellfire. As I said, I simply will not fly any Gallente ship except for an Ishtar, it is just not worth the effort.

Refer to the top 20 ships used this month: (Eve-Kill Stats are generated from 2012-01-1 to 2012-01-18)

1 Drake 109549
2 Maelstrom 79771
3 Tengu 76807
4 Hurricane 64196
5 Abaddon 45218
6 Armageddon 39188
7 Tornado 27983
8 Scimitar 22620
9 Tempest 22342
10 Zealot 18700
11 Sabre 17940
12 Huginn 14834
13 Cynabal 13142
14 Loki 12404
15 Hound 12089
16 Manticore 11780
17 Vagabond 11334
18 Rapier 10987
19 Lachesis 10954 Oh look, A Gallente ship! It doesn't use blasters tho...
20 Rifter 10500

TL;DR:
Caldari is good for a Drake and a Tengu
Amarr is good For Abaddons, Geddons, and Zealots(Ahax)
Minmatar is good for everything
Gallente is good for nothing

If you say that blasters do not need a buff, I say "Drugs are bad, Mmkay?".
Xtover
Cold Moon Destruction.
#1733 - 2012-01-18 20:48:15 UTC
There's the vindi, but only if you don't mind risking a 1.5bil ship...


(then again it is half minmatar...)
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1734 - 2012-01-18 21:12:03 UTC
Xtover wrote:
There's the vindi, but only if you don't mind risking a 1.5bil ship...


(then again it is half minmatar...)



poor vindi
the price has been speculated so high

and hybrids still suck Smile
Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1735 - 2012-01-18 22:12:02 UTC
Hey, we now have the Gal Frigs :)
By the way: Didn't a lot people say long time ago that small Blasters are fine and that generall changes to all Blasters and Ammo might be a bit too much for them?
I just thought about it and it is a bit funny how the community predicts situations and CPP doesn't listen.
Now what might happen: In a few weeks they realize that medium hybrids needs some more love but instead of changing medium weapons they just boost Null and Void in generall and improve small Blasters once more.

I still wonder why changes are made to the Ammo in generall instead of looking at the weapons directly and balancing small, medium and large independently. Wouldn't this make more sense? Just asking...
Zircon Dasher
#1736 - 2012-01-18 22:20:16 UTC
People who think the "Top 20" list is meaningful make me happy. If it were not for the hordes of people who fail to take an applied statistics course during thier lifetimes, I would not have a job irl.

ty :hugs:

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
de4deye
Phantom Space
Space Madness.
#1737 - 2012-01-18 23:09:47 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
People who think the "Top 20" list is meaningful make me happy. If it were not for the hordes of people who fail to take an applied statistics course during thier lifetimes, I would not have a job irl.

ty :hugs:


All this shows is that they are not in demand for fleet at all - Not that they are not used in general.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#1738 - 2012-01-19 08:33:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
de4deye wrote:
I am only saying that Blasters need a generous optimal and falloff buffing.
My concern with buffing blaster range so that it can hit at mega pulse range is the already superior damage and tracking of blasters. If blasters get what would likely be a 2x range buff, would tracking and damage be nerfed?



People stop your paranoia plz, no one serious wants to have pulse range or AC's range and more dmg, we (the serious ones if you want it) ask enough range and dmg at med fight range witch is 30/35km max, just enough to fear the crap out of meta gamers with faction points witch only pleasure is like self sex, pointing you at long range (faction point 30km) where you can do nothing at all and slowly kill you.

So if you're one of those or an 8 years old little boy/girls I understand this will hurt your tralala.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#1739 - 2012-01-19 08:45:34 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
People who think the "Top 20" list is meaningful make me happy. If it were not for the hordes of people who fail to take an applied statistics course during thier lifetimes, I would not have a job irl.

ty :hugs:


Statistics and people masturbating their brains with are useless to humanity, they're the first ones to hide underground when thing go wrong, they can barely survive if their car engine is broken in the middle of no where ...

Now, people using those with good intentions and giving humanity tools to become better, those actually have some nobel prices. Everything else is just cave people trying to dominate their neighbor with words a new V12 and tons of crap their future grave doesn't care at all...neither I.

If only painful/slow deadly hills were intelligent and could choose their target...I'd like to be the one that liquefies their victim from the inside in a horrible pain Lol

Halala...
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1740 - 2012-01-19 11:45:04 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
People who think the "Top 20" list is meaningful make me happy. If it were not for the hordes of people who fail to take an applied statistics course during thier lifetimes, I would not have a job irl.

ty :hugs:



well i had a course on applied statistics and i must say most of ur rl job is as usefull as wet toilet paper

but on the top 20 list u have a 100% coverage
and most of eve players aint dumb ( i rather dont say all cuz there is always a black sheep hiding somwhere Cool )

they choose to use something in certain situations becouse it has an advantage over other ships
and for an expirienced eve player the top 20 list can tell everything where certain ships are being used and why
they replaced a ship that had exactly the same task

so ur comment is nothing more then an outburst of half backed knowladge