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Sorry, double post.

I think you missed the mark a little bit.
Minmatar are chosen because they are fast, agile, and can do damage from range. All qualities which have massive benefit when your enemy can't keep you pinned & the fight goes **** up. When it's time to bail Minmatar have the advantage because of the qualities you've described. That is the reason for lack of commitment.

I don't want to lose my ship every time, so I'm going to simply bail when the odds are no longer in my favour.
It doesn't matter what you do to the ships, you can make them weaker and you can make them tank less, but as long as Minmatar have that GTFO ability and range advantage they will be flown more.

It's not because Minmatar are the best for getting the job done (they aren't), it's that they are best at doing said job without being caught in the shitstorm that always comes up. The other races shouldn't be trying to be like Minmatar. Nano is simply a play style, and not every race needs to be good at it.

IMO Hail shouldn't have got a boost. Conflag & Void are indeed left behind when you look at the stats.
At the same time though, Blasters got a 20% tracking boost and reduced cap usage. These changes solve most of Voids problems which makes its tracking and cap usage only slightly worse than normal antimatter prior to Crucible.

And in regard to your Talos/Tornado comparison. You couldn't possibly be more wrong.
The Tornado is not only harder to fit, but has worse damage projection than rails. Want more range? You loose a ton of damage, unlike railguns. You can easily fit Neutrons to a Talos or Naga. The only reason the Tornado is more popular is because of Alpha & Speed. That's it. Get your facts straight because it's the same reason why Artillery is chosen over everything else.

-1) I think many minmatar ships out perform Gallente ships in the close fight as well. I've run into plenty single and double plated Hurricanes that have significant tank, still faster than their equivalent Gal ship even with trimarks, the small sig radius really shines when they armor tank, and still are able to project damage out sooner and with authority in close. Obviously not quite the DPS of a Gal ship, but considering how soon they are able to start applying the damage on their way into target is a huge help. Also, as primaries rapidly change and ships pop, they are able to more effectively switch targets and still apply damage more often than a Gal ship which has to limp toward the target. Now, I will say that I think the changes to Null will definitely help this. But of course, Min is still the best choice for close in fighting because I can Neut a hurricane all day long and he can still shoot when he fights in close. No way a "close in brawler" race should be burning CAP, period. The reduction is nice, but it needs to go away all together. This would be particularly handy for small ships that die to neuts/drone combination on bigger ships. If gal frigs could still shoot at the drones while webbed/scramed/neuted it would make them much more survivable.

-2) Tornado/Talos- comparing a Arty fit Tornado with 1400's and a Talos with 425 rails, both all gank and no tank (other than a DCU II on both), all level V characters, both using two sensor boosters:
Tornado: 11622 alpha w/ 701 dps using Republic Fleet EMP (range 35+71) - 3 gyro's, 1 TE, 2 Tracking computers, 2 ACR and collision accelerator in rigs.
Talos: 4118 alpha w/ 782 DPS using Caldari Navy Antimatter (range 51+49)- 3 mag stabs, 1 TE, 1 tracking computer, 1 Hybrid locus, 1 hybrid collision accelerator and a polycarbon housing. I have to use a 3% CPU implant to make this fit work.

Now you can play around with the ammo types but this is a roughly fair comparison for engagements in the 50-60 km range which is where I've been seeing most these ships engage at. So yes, you are right, the Talos has more DPS, but frankly hardly a difference (81), especially when you then compare that to the alpha strike comparison. So to say that rails are fixed to me is mostly a joke. I will grant you that you have more chances to hit with hybrids and that can make a difference, but that is negated by the use of multiple tornado's to lower the consequences of misses. And when they hit, few thing can stand up to that Alpha. So yes, I still say that rails suck.

(I did not figure the Talos' drones into the dps equation, by the way, as for these types of engagements they are not really used except if a frig gets in close or ecm drones for GTFO. But as I've been watching these pop many frigs, interceptors etc on their way in (yes, even spiraling in) that's not too frequent. While they don't get much damage in on them, their numbers and a couple of target painters make most things pop to these ships.)

@Mariner
What did I literally just say. Artillery will always be the premier choice because of alpha.
Railguns have more range, more tracking, and more damage over time. They are used because of alpha. Period.
The Hurricane is a bit of a special snowflake as far as Battlecruisers go. It's far too fast for its abilities, and IMO has too much grid. And no, it really isn't the best at brawling. The mere suggestion made me choke on my drink.


@Naomi
Minmatars range/dps gap has been closing, and it's become even smaller after the changes to Null.
They are faster, and when fit for range, they are weaker. They are also smaller by a tiny margin largely because that *advantage* is negated as soon as you nano the ships with shields (battleships & caps gain the most).
Minmatar isn't ideal for brawling anymore, they aren't ideal for actual RANGE sniping beyond alphaing targets.


As I've been saying, there is nothing wrong with the new Hybrids, they are very good.
Medium rails are also not bad but get overshadowed by Artillery & alpha. There is no way for Rails will ever replace Artillery as long as alpha is so massive. End of story.

Thing is that dps as it is seen by people (raw numbers) it's "always" bigger on rails than Arty witch they use s argument to afirm rails are fine.

In reality some intelligent people have already ran the numbers, made excellent graphics and clearly shows to someone able to understand those graphics after just a few shots (between 5 and 10 depending on skills/fit etc) Alpha it's simply superior to EVERYTHING and there's nothing you can do to change this unless very big game core changes witch will never happen.

First you have distance engagement being just plain equal for whatever engagement type, because warp to blah blah, grid blah blah and full of blah blah, result, no one shoots no one after 100km or it's a frackinf FC mistake actually.

Then once everyone fights in the same range you need stuff that gives you for your time spent behind your stupid screen watching stupid pixels, well matar wins, if some people don't think so they're either ignorants or just arrogants incapable to see the vidence it self under their nose.

I think that blaster DPS is fine but needs a better optimal range.
Take for example an Abaddon in comparison. It does near the same DPS as a Megathron would with Pulse lasers, only difference is that it can shoot 60KM. I don't see much fairness in that.
TL;DR so I do not have to have a long and drawn out rant: Give blasters better optimal and falloff, Please.

wrong thread mate

anyways i think hybrids and gallente ships still need more tweaking overall. There has definitely been a marked improvement. I think part of the problem now, or at least the biggest one is the platforms that use hybrids.

Railguns are looking better on paper and are comparable to pulse lasers except for the tracking. Still haven't used those for pvp yet though as i haven't found any reason to bring railguns on the field.

The thing is the Abaddon is very cap heavy with lasers, more so than the Mega with blasters. Reading these threads sometimes makes me smile and its like a MAKE MY RACE ULTIMATE AT ALL. If you really like the Abaddon, train for it. That's the beauty of Eve. It's interesting lots of null fleets fit Arty to the Abandon, as has been mentioned Arty is king.

As for blaster boats suffering at the hand of nuets, won't someone think of the laser boats. :)

Let's just give hybrids the range and alpha of Arty, the instant ammo load of lasers, all dmg types, the killing power it has up close and force all pilots to fly Gallente :)

Now, now, calm down. I can fly an abaddon, along with every other races BS, Hac, what have you. Abaddons are heavy on cap no derp, I'm not talking about that, as blasters are high on cap usage too - it makes no real argument. The only null fleets that fit arty to abaddons are the noobs who trained for a Maelstrom and were forced to use an abaddon and cannot use T2 Pulses, As the T2 Arty will do more DPS than T1 pulse lasers. I am not a ranting noob, like some, who doesn't know what they are talking about and saying to "BUFF MY RACE" - Gallente isn't my "Race" as they suck something aweful since a couple years back. The Only ship that any sane Gallente pilot will fly is an Ishtar.
I will disregard your non productive rant and assume that you are just a noob who has nothing better to do. I stick by what I said, Blasters need a Falloff and Optimal range buff to them and their ammo types should not have such restrictive range bonuses.

-de4d

always Ctrl+C before posting
if its gone
Ctrl+V :)