EVE General Discussion

Translation: CCP please make the game cheaper for me as I'm an entitled brat.

Seriously? Stop your whining. FYI, with inflation and a constant price CCP has been implicitly giving people discounts year over year. $15 today has less purchasing power than it did in 2010. $15 today would only buy you $13.87 worth of Stuff™ in 2010.

When I started playing, 2008, the annual sub cost was about $11 (if you pay for an entire year), that is now down to $9.83 in 2008 dollars. If you started in same year and are whining about subscription costs and PLEX prices...literally, STFU, STFD or GTFO. For under $10/month, in inflation adjusted dollars, you can play the game.

Edit: And I just looked, right now buying an entire year of Eve subscription is $8.33/month or $99. Nope, just double checked that is for upgrading from a trial account.

Um, screw you buddy. I'm subbed all the way to 2017, but there are other people out there who prefer to build a library of games, rather than remain subbed to a single game.

Yes, making miner ganking profitable again would be a good change. I strongly agree with your other post a while back allowing exhumers to have more flexibility in fittings, allowing the player to decide how hard a nut that exhumer needs to be to crack.

I do agree that jetcan mining needs to be a thing again. I blame the mackinaw. I was really hoping with these recent changes they would return the hulk to the king of mining, that no other exhumer would even come close. I'm talking the hulk is at least a 40% better miner than the rest. And yes, now the hulk is better than the mack by a larger margin, but it's not nearly a large enough margin to make people use it and actually have to pay attention to the miner in the belt. Why CCP can't understand that I'll never know.

Let me make this clear: I don't give a flying **** about high sec miners. If CCP made all exhumers have an EHP of 500 tomorrow and drop a plex on destruiction, I'd rejoice in the fact that mineral prices are now going through the roof, and laugh all the way to the bank. 99% of all ganks to miners can be thwarted by simply BEING AT THE KEYS PAYING ATTENTION. I have no sympathy for the "I mine at work or while watching netflix" crowd. Some of those have been at the receiving end of my guns actually.

I don't disagree with you saying a lot of high sec content needs to come back to the game. I agree with pretty much every point you made. More content is never a bad thing, eve thrives on conflict. I just disagree that it's the primary cause of the loss of subs. The removal of ISboxers, banning of a lot of bot accounts, and the snoozefest since goons lost space in null I think is more the cause. The game was far more healthy when they held most of the power, I hope it returns that way.

That being said, I hope CCP is listening and implements what you suggest, I just don't believe it will have the effect you think it will.

Let me put it more simply then...

Removing content is bad for maintaining subs. EvE is a, at it's core, a PvP game. As such, removing any PvP content is likely to cause issues with maintaining let alone increasing subs.

And yes, CCP can say, "Sorry, our game, suck it up." But they are completely blinkered if they think that is our only option. Look at the number of subs that currently log in. We have the option of voting with out wallets. And look...looks like alot of people have vetoed the game with their wallets. CCP has been very adept at monetizing those who are left, but even that has a limit. The bottom line is that the trend is not looking good. Perhaps it is time to consider adding to HS PvP. HS is where people with limited amounts of time can log in and do stuff. Making it so there is less stuff to do and the stuff that remains is horribly boring...bad strategy.

There you go again. Assuming Bravo Sierra. Since he is leaving (hopefully has left) are you after his crown as Chief Bad™?

I imagine that some gankers in HS are alts, some are mains. What is the break, no freaking idea. But undoubtedly some would leave with an additional round of nerfing. As has happened with previous rounds of nerfing.

Go back and look at the EvE Offline data. Look at when the war between Goons/the Imperium vs. IWI started. Logins started trending up. When Goons bailed and headed south...oh look the trend changed. It is now heading back up, but most likely that is seasonality.

Bottom line: IMO PvP is what drives logins. Having been in NS/LS for almost 8 years I can tell you that when we have a war, or PvP on a regular basis people log in. When we don't they don't.

So don't be so glib dismissing the removal of ganking. I don't think you completely understand the situation...you are too narrow minded.

[

This may be a contributing factor, I won't deny that. But I think it's hardly the only factor that caused the decline. Any lack of conflict is bad.

I don't think ganking caused a significant amount of players to quit either.....even though having been on the giving end of ganks myself,I know I have caused some players to never show up again. Or rather. shortly after the gank occured they never logged in again, I don't know if I caused it.

Ultimately I believe it boils down to the NPE, CCP has stated themselves that most people quit early on. Most of those probably never engaged in pvp at all. Maybe have Aura give new players a stack of 10 t1 frigates, and the tutorial gives a reward of 5 million isk for every one of those that gets blown up by another capsuleer? [/quote]

NPE could do with work but its not the primary problem. The issue is a lack of easily accessible content that used to exist but no longer does.[/quote]

So what you are saying is the primary problem is that it's now harder to gank people. That is the primary cause of the loss of thousands of subs. Is that what you are saying?[/quote]

Look...hmmm...

Okay, let me help you.

Lets try a thought experiment.

Suppose CCP, in their infinite wisdom (now stop laughing and go with it) decide to just simply ban ganking. They make CONCORD response times 1 second in every system, they buff the freighter EHP 100x, and also will permaban anyone still trying to or even succeeding at ganking. It is now gone for good.

Gankers lose content right? What do you think they are going to do? Start mining? Run missions? Probably not. Some might go back to HS after biomassing gank alts (after extracting any surplus SP), but some of them will likely leave.

Good you say? Well, let me bring in the ghost of Frederic Bastiat. Ever hear of him? No? Not surprised he died like 166 years ago. He pointed out that there are effects you can see (the seen) and those you can't see (the unseen). His parable that he is most known for is the broken window fallacy. The gist of the story is that a young lad breaks a shoe makers window, and the show maker hires a window repair man, and the typical response is: don't be too hard on the lad because he just created economic activity. But Bastiat said (paraphrasing here), "No, because that $5 or whatever to repair the window spent by the shoe maker can't be spent at the butchers, brewers or bakers businesses, and net wealth has not changed. Thus there is no net gain."

How does that apply here, well with not ganking there is no anti-ganking. The AG crowd also loses content.

In fact, we see that with Onictus posts where he describes how he lost content over time too but not in the obvious (the seen) way, but in the non-obvious way (the unseen).

You....you simply do not apprehend the unseen with respect to these nerfs. You are wearing blinders and your mind is closed. You are the last person CCP should ever listen too.

Oh, and if you want to dismiss Bastiat...go ahead. However, his parable of the broken window fallacy is the first known articulation of the concept known as opportunity cost. That concept people point to why "mining your own minerals to build stuff are not free".[/quote]

As I already stated, I don't care about ganking. Yes, I understand the logic behind what you are saying.

Baltec put it well, and educated me on many ways how high sec pvp has been limited with nerfs and what not. I agree that in general these were bad moves. I just don't believe they are the root cause. With the exception of the watch list changes, that seriously cut the balls off of most high sec mercenaries. Unfortunately, CCP has already said "Sorry, our game, suck it up". Slightly paraphrasing there, but the same general idea.

Do I believe getting ganked causes some players to quit the game? Yes. Do I believe the lack of high sec content causes some to quit the game? Yes.

Do I think that either of these things have caused the loss of thousands of subs to EVE? Nope.
[/quote]

Let me put it more simply then...

Removing content is bad for maintaining subs. EvE is a, at it's core, a PvP game. As such, removing any PvP content is likely to cause issues with maintaining let alone increasing subs.

And yes, CCP can say, "Sorry, our game, suck it up." But they are completely blinkered if they think that is our only option. Look at the number of subs that currently log in. We have the option of voting with out wallets. And look...looks like alot of people have vetoed the game with their wallets. CCP has been very adept at monetizing those who are left, but even that has a limit. The bottom line is that the trend is not looking good. Perhaps it is time to consider adding to HS PvP. HS is where people with limited amounts of time can log in and do stuff. Making it so there is less stuff to do and the stuff that remains is horribly boring...bad strategy.[/quote]



Rubbish, you're just after easy kills..

Any player now can log in for 15 mins and find as much pvp as he/she wants in Provi and other places..The only ones screaming for more HS pvp are the ones who can't face players perfectly willing and able to shoot back.

As for HS, again, there's as much as you can handle, go wardec Marmite or the other big merc corps..you'll get as many fights as you want.

I have no need to.

And there it is, the attempt to down play PvP as not the "right kind" of PvP or not the "honorable" type of PvP. The old, "I don't mind if CCP removes PvP I disapprove of," type of mentality.

In short another narrow minded blowhard with an agenda.

**** me. Wrong thread. I'm an idiot.