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AFK: The State of Highsec Mining and the Effect of Upcoming Changes

Author
Solecist Project
#121 - 2016-08-31 14:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
You're way too full of yourself to be a new player ...
... and if you were one you'd lack any understanding of what's going on.

Checked.
Joined late 2015.

What a jerk.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#122 - 2016-08-31 14:30:32 UTC
\o/ truly a victory for the New Order!

This may be the best change to mining since they removed infinite ice belts. :D
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#123 - 2016-08-31 14:33:27 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Well there is a simple solution:

CODE shows how to do it right: CODE will make a Standing mining fleet of non AFK Miners in Hulks. Called: Hulkamania

They will mine for a month to show us all that mining is fun and there is no real reason to make it afk. It will serve several topics as it will bring content to Eve, give a lot of People a opportunity to take a shot at CODE and CODE will get the fights that they want AND they can show that that the afk Mining is due to the laziness and greed of the miners and not the ming numbing boredom of mining.

CODE: give a good example and SHOW us how to mine the right way!!!!Cool

Hey Geronimo,

Actually I already mine with my alt in a Procurer, since it is a stupidly overpowered ship and is a lot of fun. I am never AFK because there is actually a lot to do while mining. If you ever noticed in a ice belt there are other people competing with you for the ice. So there is plenty of sneaking up on them to do, to act as warpin for myself and my alt to kill their barge or to simply bump them out of the belt.

It usually only takes a few minutes to half an hour and I have the whole ice anom for myself. I think that is how it should be done and I expect a compliant miner to do the same. This is what I would call "how to mine the right way".

Obviously I am not selfish and everyone has the chance to purchase access to the anom and any other anom in New Order territory for only 10mil ISK per year (subject to forfeiture if Code violation is detected).
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#124 - 2016-08-31 14:47:43 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
CODE: give a good example and SHOW us how to mine the right way!!!!Cool



We already do show you how to do it right....just follow The Code....

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2016-08-31 17:00:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
It is 100% relevant when discussing the concept of 'consent' in the virtual world of New Eden.
So you admit you're doing exactly what I stated you were doing and trying to create a new definition of a word in the context of the game?

Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Stop playing Space Johnnie Cochrane. You make no sense, therefore you MUST ACQUIT!
All I'm doing is going by the actual definition of the word consent rather than distorting it.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
It's known as implied consent.
As long as there are undesirable outcomes which are possible but not so high in likelyhood to be considered certainties (which is certainly the case when in highsec and not doing something stupid or anywhere else when sufficiently aware) I'm having a hard time seeing even implied consent.

But that's not what he's arguing anyways. He's arguing explicit given consent. What I'm still trying to figure out is why he thinks he needs it, and why you think an act that doesn't solicit any specific type of conflict somehow consents to all of them (yes, you're here for some kinds of PvP, the ones you're equipped for and therefore explicitly consenting to that, but that carries no idea of implied consent to interference and as said before, you don't need it).

Also this isn't a PvP game in the traditional sense. Those tend to be balanced around a specific, single type of competition. Eve isn't. You're expected to not consent to certain types of interactions people may try to bring your way. Eve tends more towards a world where anything can be PvP in the course of normal use because of the inability to not interact with the world at large.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#126 - 2016-08-31 18:44:23 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Well there is a simple solution:

CODE shows how to do it right: CODE will make a Standing mining fleet of non AFK Miners in Hulks. Called: Hulkamania

They will mine for a month to show us all that mining is fun and there is no real reason to make it afk. It will serve several topics as it will bring content to Eve, give a lot of People a opportunity to take a shot at CODE and CODE will get the fights that they want AND they can show that that the afk Mining is due to the laziness and greed of the miners and not the ming numbing boredom of mining.

CODE: give a good example and SHOW us how to mine the right way!!!!Cool

Hey Geronimo,

Actually I already mine with my alt in a Procurer, since it is a stupidly overpowered ship and is a lot of fun. I am never AFK because there is actually a lot to do while mining. If you ever noticed in a ice belt there are other people competing with you for the ice. So there is plenty of sneaking up on them to do, to act as warpin for myself and my alt to kill their barge or to simply bump them out of the belt.

It usually only takes a few minutes to half an hour and I have the whole ice anom for myself. I think that is how it should be done and I expect a compliant miner to do the same. This is what I would call "how to mine the right way".

Obviously I am not selfish and everyone has the chance to purchase access to the anom and any other anom in New Order territory for only 10mil ISK per year (subject to forfeiture if Code violation is detected).


And right there....a warp in.

People need to pay attention because that neutral slow boating over to you...may be doing it to provide a warp in.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Lawrence Lawton
The Lawton School for Pubbies Who Can't Mine Good
Novus Ordo.
#127 - 2016-08-31 19:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lawrence Lawton
Hendrix Foster wrote:

From a new player's view (which I am a new player really), then the problem with low sec is that as soon as you leave high sec then there's a gate camp or people that straight away lock onto you who have been playing for like 5-8 years and are leeching off the gates intentionally to catch new players or the unwary.....hmmmm.

Also, if you go to a gate that goes to null then it's interdiction spheres with neut ships waiting.......blimey.

I'm all for leaving high sec sometimes or whatever....but its a ****-fest as soon as you do so, and they are all vets all-the-way almost everytime in a tier 2 or 3 ship.

Man! I know you folks will say just deal with it but it's not cool just being a kill mail for some overly skilled douche that waits 24/7 on the other side of the high sec gate.

In time.....I will be more skilled and the time of vegence will come and be mine...but not just yet, haha.


These are only problems because you are trying to do it alone.
A gatecamp is designed to overwhelm any solo opponent. You can get past them pretty reliably in an instawarp frigate and buy a barge at your destination.
Don't fall into the trap of thinking you need to train for years before you can be effective in combat. The best way to be effective in combat is to fly with friends.

I can think of one character that started EVE around the same time as my main in 2012. Once a month he logs in and tried to PvP someone, and always loses, and then refills his training queue and logs off for another month. He'll soon have 100m SP and still be no closer finding his elusive solopwnboat.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#128 - 2016-08-31 19:38:27 UTC
I mined a lot in HiSec, but usually only when in the mood and needing relatively risk free capital. Once I learned how to run combat sites, mining was less important in HiSec because I could make a crap-ton more ISK running sites than I could mining the usual stuff. The only exception was Glaze, if I could get that it was decent income for less effort. I would tend to still run combat sites to sharpen my combat skills to at least 'dull' but mining had it's allure when I was tired.

The issue I see here is that AFK mining is a way to earn ISK while doing something else. The something else in factor with the ISK gain is the balance that determines how important it would be to the player. For those players where AFK mining is their primary income stream and they are doing 'something else' just to burn off the boredom of it, then it's either going to have a large impact on them, or none at all *IF* CCP also introduces more fun and challenges to mining. If CCP doesn't do that, then it's going to be a huge impact and really tick off this kind of player, which makes no sense.

If they are going to make it free to play to draw in more players, then why make a good chunk of the player base mad at you and possibly lose them? I don't get this logical conundrum.

As for CODE, they needed a win after their bump mechanics took a beating, so call it break even. I have no idea how many of them actually drink the kool-aid enough to believe the stuff I see their adherents post, but none of it matters. Their play style is what it is and we all have to adjust to each other. If you know what you are doing, they are a paper tiger.

CCP is CLEARLY targeting an increase of the player base and F2P is going to make it a bunch of people that really don't know what they are doing. So CCP is either going to have to continue to make the game simpler and more EVE PvE oriented *OR* just hope that sheer numbers of people trying to play the game will suck in that marginal % of the populace that would be interested in EVE as is. I don't know which is their target there, maybe a function of both.

So, we can keep fighting these titanic announcements of change from CCP, accept and work with them, or leave the game. That's really the only choices you have. Pick what works best for you.
cyonida
#129 - 2016-08-31 19:53:59 UTC
Ganking is way too easy, bro. You are proof of that.

Quote:

In the interest of a neutral discussion I will abstain from potentially inflammatory language and preaching.

If you wanted to avoid inflammatory comments, perhaps you should have excluded your corp and alliance tags.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#130 - 2016-08-31 20:12:03 UTC
"and that nobody should be immune to non-consensual pvp anywhere".

There is NO place some miner can go and be free of non-consenual pvp so your premise is again flawed to the point of absurdity right out of the gate"

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Solecist Project
#131 - 2016-08-31 20:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
cyonida wrote:
Ganking is way too easy, bro. You are proof of that.

That's ... not wrong.

The real issue is that they are playing it in the possible worst form ...
... which allows everyone else to call it easy.


Eventually it'll haunt them ... ^_^

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Lawrence Lawton
The Lawton School for Pubbies Who Can't Mine Good
Novus Ordo.
#132 - 2016-08-31 21:40:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lawrence Lawton
cyonida wrote:
Ganking is way too easy, bro. You are proof of that.

Quote:

In the interest of a neutral discussion I will abstain from potentially inflammatory language and preaching.

If you wanted to avoid inflammatory comments, perhaps you should have excluded your corp and alliance tags.


I would rather disclose my affiliations. The thread hasn't devolved into a flamewar, and some good discussions were sparked.

Anybody who thinks ganking is easy hasn't scouted for targets. You look at the DPS pilots (often called F1 monkeys) and conclude it's simple. Their job is pretty simple, but they all need to follow the FC's instructions, as with any fleet.
The trick is in getting the DPS to exactly the right place at the right time.
It takes skill to make it look this effortless, so I'll take your dismissive statement as a compliment.
Anataelia Ahrire
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2016-08-31 22:24:39 UTC
As someone told:
One of my Problems as a Miner is that i don´t want to be a squishy target. Right now i mine in Low-Sec, because i feel comfortable, but to some Degree i am on my Way to other Targets to Archive ( Command here i come).

But to be honest: have u ever tried to mine your Profit for Buying an Orca ? Buying by Contract means usually a Price of 700kk.
Right now i farm with Tier2 modulated Strip-Miner for Pyroxes (someone told me to do so) and every run is worth 2kk. have fun to collect the ISK for ORCA. And with some bad Luck there is someone who intend that you are some Kind of AFK-Miner and Snipes you away. Whups, here is the loss of Several Millions of ISK. And i think u will get ISK way more faster with KIlling or Exploring.

And even if someones not responding to a Ganker, maybe he is chatting with the corps at the time ? Or other things. Minng can be really boring. But hey, that´s my way of this game.
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
#134 - 2016-08-31 22:56:10 UTC
Anataelia Ahrire wrote:
As someone told:
One of my Problems as a Miner is that i don´t want to be a squishy target. Right now i mine in Low-Sec, because i feel comfortable, but to some Degree i am on my Way to other Targets to Archive ( Command here i come).

But to be honest: have u ever tried to mine your Profit for Buying an Orca ? Buying by Contract means usually a Price of 700kk.
Right now i farm with Tier2 modulated Strip-Miner for Pyroxes (someone told me to do so) and every run is worth 2kk. have fun to collect the ISK for ORCA. And with some bad Luck there is someone who intend that you are some Kind of AFK-Miner and Snipes you away. Whups, here is the loss of Several Millions of ISK. And i think u will get ISK way more faster with KIlling or Exploring.

And even if someones not responding to a Ganker, maybe he is chatting with the corps at the time ? Or other things. Minng can be really boring. But hey, that´s my way of this game.


Mining,
in low-sec......

.......



.......



excuse me question but are you a masohist?

[honestly mining in low security in current version of a game is outright bad idea, because a) there is nothing in low sec that would not be in null anyway b) you have no way to secure even remotely efficiently your mining operations in low - in high sec there is concord scaring of at least some onf potentiall assaulters, and in biggest chunk of null there is the NBSI directive meaning that when sitting in proper system, odds for you being attacked are quite low... not to mention that if you are in procurer/skiff you can actually attack that attacker first and he won't be likely to just hotdrop caps on you...]
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#135 - 2016-08-31 22:58:31 UTC
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
Anataelia Ahrire wrote:
As someone told:
One of my Problems as a Miner is that i don´t want to be a squishy target. Right now i mine in Low-Sec, because i feel comfortable, but to some Degree i am on my Way to other Targets to Archive ( Command here i come).

But to be honest: have u ever tried to mine your Profit for Buying an Orca ? Buying by Contract means usually a Price of 700kk.
Right now i farm with Tier2 modulated Strip-Miner for Pyroxes (someone told me to do so) and every run is worth 2kk. have fun to collect the ISK for ORCA. And with some bad Luck there is someone who intend that you are some Kind of AFK-Miner and Snipes you away. Whups, here is the loss of Several Millions of ISK. And i think u will get ISK way more faster with KIlling or Exploring.

And even if someones not responding to a Ganker, maybe he is chatting with the corps at the time ? Or other things. Minng can be really boring. But hey, that´s my way of this game.


Mining,
in low-sec......

.......



.......



excuse me question but are you a masohist?

[honestly mining in low security in current version of a game is outright bad idea, because a) there is nothing in low sec that would not be in null anyway b) you have no way to secure even remotely efficiently your mining operations in low - in high sec there is concord scaring of at least some onf potentiall assaulters, and in biggest chunk of null there is the NBSI directive meaning that when sitting in proper system, odds for you being attacked are quite low... not to mention that if you are in procurer/skiff you can actually attack that attacker first and he won't be likely to just hotdrop caps on you...]


Jaspet! You can mine jaspet in low.

Yeah...I know. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#136 - 2016-08-31 23:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Kei Nagasai wrote:
The answer to the AFK mining "problem" is simple, why dont "muh code" chase after CCP to change the way mining works at a base level? So it requires more than just activating a strip miner?
Oh wait, no, that wouldn't do now, would it? It's to much like common sense.



Funny thing, elite dangerous mining is more "involved" and you know what...it's not anymore interesting then eve's, adding steps or other changes won't do anything except those that bot change their code to meet the knew steps, and those that earn income in a more passive way because of RL leaving because they won't see the point.

This fixation with mining, seriously it infests every gaming world you go to, people just hate miners for some reason in their obsessive compulsive disorders they fixate upon a single group then can't let it go, the obsession goes deep, who are these crazed people and why are they so deep in the gaming world?

I play, I do my thing, I'm not worried about group A, or what B does to earn income or how they play, I simply have no interest in worrying about those players...I just don't get why....nothing more to say, trying to reason with crazy is crazy.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2016-08-31 23:46:56 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Kei Nagasai wrote:
The answer to the AFK mining "problem" is simple, why dont "muh code" chase after CCP to change the way mining works at a base level? So it requires more than just activating a strip miner?
Oh wait, no, that wouldn't do now, would it? It's to much like common sense.



Funny thing, elite dangerous mining is more "involved" and you know what...it's not anymore interesting then eve's, adding steps or other changes won't do anything except those that bot change their code to meet the knew steps, and those that earn income in a more passive way because of RL leaving because they won't see the point.

This fixation with mining, seriously it infests every gaming world you go to, people just hate miners for some reason in their obsessive compulsive disorders they fixate upon a single group then can't let it go, the obsession goes deep, who are these crazed people and why are they so deep in the gaming world?

I play, I do my thing, I'm not worried about group A, or what B does to earn income or how they play, I simply have no interest in worrying about those players...I just don't get why....nothing more to say, trying to reason with crazy is crazy.
The issue with mining in elite is that it's just more clicks but the same level of decision making. Well, that and more information obfuscation (Prospector limpets to see what's in every rock? No thanks.).

And the end result, despite lack of afk-ability, is a worse experience in terms of enjoyable gameplay.

And I really never thought a game could make me appreciate eve mining, but there it is.
Lawrence Lawton
The Lawton School for Pubbies Who Can't Mine Good
Novus Ordo.
#138 - 2016-08-31 23:53:09 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Kei Nagasai wrote:
The answer to the AFK mining "problem" is simple, why dont "muh code" chase after CCP to change the way mining works at a base level? So it requires more than just activating a strip miner?
Oh wait, no, that wouldn't do now, would it? It's to much like common sense.



Funny thing, elite dangerous mining is more "involved" and you know what...it's not anymore interesting then eve's, adding steps or other changes won't do anything except those that bot change their code to meet the knew steps, and those that earn income in a more passive way because of RL leaving because they won't see the point.

This fixation with mining, seriously it infests every gaming world you go to, people just hate miners for some reason in their obsessive compulsive disorders they fixate upon a single group then can't let it go, the obsession goes deep, who are these crazed people and why are they so deep in the gaming world?

I play, I do my thing, I'm not worried about group A, or what B does to earn income or how they play, I simply have no interest in worrying about those players...I just don't get why....nothing more to say, trying to reason with crazy is crazy.


Miners rub people the wrong way. it's something about their desire to be so neutral and uninvolved and passive. Curse those neutrals and their infernal neutrality.
Serene Repose
#139 - 2016-09-01 02:11:52 UTC
Lawrence Lawton wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
Kei Nagasai wrote:
The answer to the AFK mining "problem" is simple, why dont "muh code" chase after CCP to change the way mining works at a base level? So it requires more than just activating a strip miner?
Oh wait, no, that wouldn't do now, would it? It's to much like common sense.



Funny thing, elite dangerous mining is more "involved" and you know what...it's not anymore interesting then eve's, adding steps or other changes won't do anything except those that bot change their code to meet the knew steps, and those that earn income in a more passive way because of RL leaving because they won't see the point.

This fixation with mining, seriously it infests every gaming world you go to, people just hate miners for some reason in their obsessive compulsive disorders they fixate upon a single group then can't let it go, the obsession goes deep, who are these crazed people and why are they so deep in the gaming world?

I play, I do my thing, I'm not worried about group A, or what B does to earn income or how they play, I simply have no interest in worrying about those players...I just don't get why....nothing more to say, trying to reason with crazy is crazy.


Miners rub people the wrong way. it's something about their desire to be so neutral and uninvolved and passive. Curse those neutrals and their infernal neutrality.
What's this "people"? You got a friend in your pocket?

This as all CODE posts is the equivalent of a sales pitch. They want to sell their "permits". They should be in the right forum section. Otherwise, the internet once again groans under the weight of yet another, cliche, lose hi sec/play low sec/null sec...uh...null sec...uh diatribe. Maybe diatribe has more syllables than these discussions merit. Stop with the BS. Let's argue about the 12-year olds coming in with the F2P. Pretty soon the forum will be filled with BACON.

I can't wait.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2016-09-01 02:25:10 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Pretty soon the forum will be filled with BACON.




You say that like it's a bad thing.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104