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[118.7] Warp Bubble Dragging Change

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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#81 - 2016-07-01 16:44:19 UTC
Now we just need to make it so that anchored bubbles generate kill mails for those who blow them up.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#82 - 2016-07-01 16:49:34 UTC
Removed some off topic posts.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Koz Katral
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#83 - 2016-07-01 16:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Koz Katral
CCP Larrikin wrote:


This means only warp disruption bubbles that are 500km in-front or behind your warp destination, which are inline with your warp, will pull you out of warp early or drag you.

What do you think? We'd love your feedback!


wait...nvm I'm dumb
Ferrotsmite Anzomi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#84 - 2016-07-01 17:24:10 UTC
Hatshepsut IV wrote:
NO, please for the love of bob no.

The deleterious effect this will have on w-space meta would be crushing. A large degree of w-space pvp revolves around catching/forcing people out of jump range of a hole. Just off the top of my head things that would either no longer be possible or just not useful tactics anymore.


  • Hole control/Eviction style massing of holes. The entire concept of an eviction in w-space generally revolves around denying the opposing party all access and chance to use wormholes via keeping them crit and bubbles up to not allow them to roll/close them. (side note/ this will make holes with direct high sec connections basically impossible to evict)

  • Fire walling via dictor bubbles to prevent reinforcements/capitals from landing in optimal combat range is one of the more effective tactics a smaller well organized force has fight/gank a larger group. Removal of drag bubbles past 500km ensures such fights are just a n+1 affair.

  • Bubble camping W-space/highsec holes to catch people who don't scout. The entire activity becomes pointless if they can just warp blindly to the hole and still land at zero.

  • Placing drag bubbles between pos/citadels/holes to catch people useing as a pipeline.

The net result of this change from the perspective of a longtime wormholer and w-space CEO will be less killmails/less chance for interaction with people via pvp and a generally less risk environment



#CCPleasesavethebubble!


What are you talking about? The ability to pull people more than 500km off of grid with a warp bubble is like 6 months old. I don't think any of the things you listed above is going to be effected by this change. Even if it will be, it will only be reverted back to they way you have been doing it for the majority of your wormhole life.

#MountainsOutOfMolehills
borodimer
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#85 - 2016-07-01 17:26:54 UTC
Yes, please!
FistyMcBumBardier
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2016-07-01 17:38:01 UTC
This is a good change, not just for Caldari combat pilots, but for everyone of New Eden.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2016-07-01 17:45:20 UTC
I'd leave it be.

Eve is all about emergent game play right, these bubbles and citadels are something none of us saw coming, its allowed the owners of space to recraft that space into a fortress (something sov owners have wanted for a while).

As somebody who roams, often alone, I think its nice that the ratters finally have a noticeable defense against roaming gangs and the new ability to redraw the defefnses of your space that players came up with (not CCP) is pretty amazing.

Too often lately the players come up with something and CCP is quick to clamp down on it and remove it from game or remove whatever cool idea the players came up with.

Let it run for a while as is, its honestly not hurting anything at all.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Akballah Kassan
Flames Of Chaos
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#88 - 2016-07-01 17:46:44 UTC
DO IT!

Being able to gate camp with a citadel is beyond stupid.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#89 - 2016-07-01 17:49:39 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
I'd leave it be.

Eve is all about emergent game play right, these bubbles and citadels are something none of us saw coming, its allowed the owners of space to recraft that space into a fortress (something sov owners have wanted for a while).

As somebody who roams, often alone, I think its nice that the ratters finally have a noticeable defense against roaming gangs and the new ability to redraw the defefnses of your space that players came up with (not CCP) is pretty amazing.

Too often lately the players come up with something and CCP is quick to clamp down on it and remove it from game or remove whatever cool idea the players came up with.

Let it run for a while as is, its honestly not hurting anything at all.


Eh, you'll have a good five weeks or so for the dozen? More? fortizars your coalition built in nullsec for the express purpose of serving as Point Defense drags to farm killmails. I think you'll get your money's worth.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Absocold
Origin.
Fraternity.
#90 - 2016-07-01 18:26:39 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
yes, please more rubberband fixes

bubble drag range isnt a problem, citadels on gate grids are.


This.
Yuri Serafim
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2016-07-01 18:55:05 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
No, and i hate bubbles

Eve is sandbox - players in nullsec should be allowed to do as they like.
Don't take or nerf tools we have.

Citadel camping is only possible if person warp directly between the gates.
If they use bookmark, any celestial they will not fall into the citadel trap.

You stated few times, people can only have citadels, if they control some area of the space, if this is my space i should be allowed to do as i like.


If someone is afraid of bubbles - they can use nullified ships.


THIS GUY GETS IT

Also, this change would make it impossible to put catch bubbles outside the lock range of POSes to catch people warping from a very specific direction.

But really, it's not that hard - just bounce celestials.
Nors Phlebas Sabelhpsron
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#92 - 2016-07-01 19:19:51 UTC
DO EET NAOW
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#93 - 2016-07-01 19:40:54 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
The current range that warp bubbles are effective (how far from your destination they can pull you out of warp) is a little unclear. This has lead to some 'interesting' possibilities, such as bubble camping a gate with a citadel.

Wait a minute. What is the problem again?
If it's the lack of information on bubble mechanics - then yes, I can agree, more clarifications would help.
If it's citadel camping - then no, I dont see it as a problem. Could you explain why it is? If anything, I'd say interceptor bubble immunity is much worse of a problem for this area of gameplay which is gate camping.
Max Groote
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2016-07-01 19:51:34 UTC
This is a really reasonable change and it makes a lot of sense. The people saying "don't warp gate to gate" don't realise that a gate camp can actually be dealt with by a small group of players, while a citadel cannot. The "don't nerf tools we have" argument doesn't make much sense either, because we would still have the no-risk Intel source that was the watchlist by that logic.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#95 - 2016-07-01 19:57:36 UTC
Querns wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
I'd leave it be.

Eve is all about emergent game play right, these bubbles and citadels are something none of us saw coming, its allowed the owners of space to recraft that space into a fortress (something sov owners have wanted for a while).

As somebody who roams, often alone, I think its nice that the ratters finally have a noticeable defense against roaming gangs and the new ability to redraw the defefnses of your space that players came up with (not CCP) is pretty amazing.

Too often lately the players come up with something and CCP is quick to clamp down on it and remove it from game or remove whatever cool idea the players came up with.

Let it run for a while as is, its honestly not hurting anything at all.


Eh, you'll have a good five weeks or so for the dozen? More? fortizars your coalition built in nullsec for the express purpose of serving as Point Defense drags to farm killmails. I think you'll get your money's worth.

Grr PL?
I'd like to see a bit more compelling argument.
So for the sake of it, could you explain exactly how is "citadel camping" detrimental and why?
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#96 - 2016-07-01 20:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
Max Groote wrote:
This is a really reasonable change and it makes a lot of sense. The people saying "don't warp gate to gate" don't realise that a gate camp can actually be dealt with by a small group of players, while a citadel cannot. The "don't nerf tools we have" argument doesn't make much sense either, because we would still have the no-risk Intel source that was the watchlist by that logic.

A competent gate camp would not let you through unless you're in travel-ceptor. While "citadel camp" is trivial to avoid.

Obil Que wrote:
Are solo pvp'er incabable of creating tactical bookmarks, using non-direct gate to gate travel, or shooting the offending bubble outside the range of the PDS?

I guess they are too leet for that bullcrap.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#97 - 2016-07-01 20:20:47 UTC
I would agree to anchored bubbles, but leave a hic with unlimited range. something is actually at risk then
Miss Everest
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#98 - 2016-07-01 20:22:42 UTC
There is nothing wrong with this tactic as stated previously. Dont do it.

You will just lessen the game and help the carebears who dont know how to use simple tactics to avoid a IMMOVABLE object.

That and or they lost a blingy and are crying about it. Either way its sad.

But seriously, use a ceptor, cloak, bouce off another object, or use a tac like everyone else. It isnt hard!
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#99 - 2016-07-01 20:23:41 UTC
Are we getting the updated GFX changes to anchored bubbles with this change?
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#100 - 2016-07-01 20:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
Vic Jefferson wrote:
...it's that there was not way for a small roaming gang to deal with them. I never minded when sov-holders dropped a bajillion supers on me - that was fine they put toys on the field and made plays. It's the fact that the use of citadels has absolutely zero risk against a small roaming gang - this characteristically un-eve like.

Alright, I see it as a fair point.
Now, if we agree that this is a real problem, we could elaborate some solution. For example: if citadel uses its weapons, it becomes vulnerable for 15 minutes.
Discuss!

EDIT.
I mean, we have an engagement mechanics for ships, which includes 1-minute weapon timer. Why shouldnt similar mechanics be in place for citadels?