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[118.7] Warp Bubble Dragging Change

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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#41 - 2016-07-01 13:39:17 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:

You'll still only ever have like a (I can't remember T2 large radius exactly right now) 30km burn max with this proposal.


nope, you put a stop bubble that lands you 500km short of the gate and surround it with more bubbles
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#42 - 2016-07-01 13:39:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
yes, please more rubberband fixes

bubble drag range isnt a problem, citadels on gate grids are.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2016-07-01 13:44:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:

You'll still only ever have like a (I can't remember T2 large radius exactly right now) 30km burn max with this proposal.


nope, you put a stop bubble that lands you 500km short of the gate and surround it with more bubbles



Which is still limited to a few dozen km at worst. As soon as you would hit a bubble that is closer than the 500km you'd stop anyway so there's a finite amount you can layer towards the (presumed) gate.

Unless I'm missing something. Edit: I was, I was considering drag, not stops.
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#44 - 2016-07-01 13:47:18 UTC
While you are at it, why not change bubbles to a one time use 2 hour duration structure that gives a kill mail. The long term nature of bubbles leads to over use.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#45 - 2016-07-01 13:47:30 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Nevermind.

people are mistaken. you land inside a bubble like this

That would be me who was mistaken.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#46 - 2016-07-01 13:53:10 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:

You'll still only ever have like a (I can't remember T2 large radius exactly right now) 30km burn max with this proposal.


nope, you put a stop bubble that lands you 500km short of the gate and surround it with more bubbles



Which is still limited to a few dozen km at worst. As soon as you would hit a bubble that is closer than the 500km you'd stop anyway so there's a finite amount you can layer towards the (presumed) gate.

Unless I'm missing something.


I think you are missing something. if I put a gigantic blob of stop bubbles centred 1000km (or 500 after the change) short of the gate, you will land right in the middle, because the ones further than that 1000/500 range can't drag you
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2016-07-01 14:01:08 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:

You'll still only ever have like a (I can't remember T2 large radius exactly right now) 30km burn max with this proposal.


nope, you put a stop bubble that lands you 500km short of the gate and surround it with more bubbles



Which is still limited to a few dozen km at worst. As soon as you would hit a bubble that is closer than the 500km you'd stop anyway so there's a finite amount you can layer towards the (presumed) gate.

Unless I'm missing something.


I think you are missing something. if I put a gigantic blob of stop bubbles centred 1000km (or 500 after the change) short of the gate, you will land right in the middle, because the ones further than that 1000/500 range can't drag you



Yeah I was. I first played the mechanic out in my head as drags. Stops are a totally different beast and yes, this is 100% completely and hilariously broken.
Hayze Cloud
Cloud's Tax Haven
#48 - 2016-07-01 14:16:04 UTC
+1 for this change.
Calypso K'Tana
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2016-07-01 14:23:24 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
yes, please more rubberband fixes

bubble drag range isnt a problem, citadels on gate grids are.


This.....

Nuff Said.
Zacktar
SHUN THE NON BELIEVER
#50 - 2016-07-01 14:25:33 UTC
I think dragging or stopping a warp should be completely removed. It is very risk averse for bubble campers to partake of this cowardly act. Anything landing that may be a threat to them allows them to simply not engage or overwhelm. Fish in a barrel thing.

My opinion is to not allow bubbles to affect already in warp ships at all.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#51 - 2016-07-01 14:30:27 UTC
Arizan Holosalintan wrote:
I disagree

Currently there are interdiction nullified ships present in the game, allowing for the avoidance of Citadel drag bubbles. Travel ceptors are unlockable and should be used to scout your routes. If you're travelling a route you haven't scouted, it should the defender.

Grids are currently 8'000km. Grids of this size would be not be fully utilized if we're only going to use 500km.

Warp disruption bubbles and drag bubbling allow for grid manipulation and control. The ability to change the terrain and manipulate it allows for interesting scenarios to develop based upon point of origin and setup.

Bubble camping a gate with a citadel only puts you in range of the PDS systems, as such small things (if you haven't scouted your) you'll be affected. If you have scouted your route, why are you warping gate to gate? Shouldn't you bounce from a moon, planet or anomaly to avoid bubble?

If you're bigger, haven't scouted, and land in the bubble depending on the ship you have you'll land in a warp bubble as normal and suffer the consequences.

Citadel camping, i.e being on a citadel with carriers and attacking people on the gate bubbles won't be fixed by this.
Being in a Citadel camping with the PDS smart bombs won't save you from a manned gate camp.

So in brief this change is an attempt to protect travel from manned gate camps. Which it won't prevent because apparently the smart bombs on citadels are too OP (which they aren't) on account of people traveling through space without scouting (which they shouldn't).

Does that about cover it?



Agree with everything here. The advantage given here by the citadel is one that affects only those who do not or will not scout their gate and provide proper tactical warp/travel for themselves or their fleet. It requires someone to risk/anchor a 20B ISK structure and man it. It can be circumvented both by proper scouting and by simply shooting the bubble from outside the range of the PDS thereby eliminating the camp. Your single invulnerable gunner now has no targets. Feel free to shoot him when he flys out again to anchor another one.

People owning space should be able to put down a giant "this is my land, come shoot me" structure to restrict free, and fundamentally lazy, travel. It is easily avoided and circumvented. I don't see the issue being one that requires a mechanics change that could, and has already been shown in the thread, to have some additional undesirable effects.
Kuda Timberline
Alea Iacta Est Universal
Blades of Grass
#52 - 2016-07-01 14:37:53 UTC
I like this change!

...but how about we just remove bubbles and make AOE points instead? Twisted

Muhaha!

Kuda Timberline

Co-host Capstable Podcast
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2016-07-01 14:38:02 UTC
Obil Que wrote:
People owning space should be able to put down a giant "this is my land, come shoot me" structure


Well.....I can't shoot it 96.5% of the time because it is invulnerable.
Ilian Amarin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2016-07-01 14:45:58 UTC
I dissagree.
I dont see any reason to make the game easier for people who are too stupid to use a scouting inty or bounce of celestials.
Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
#55 - 2016-07-01 14:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hatshepsut IV
NO, please for the love of bob no.

The deleterious effect this will have on w-space meta would be crushing. A large degree of w-space pvp revolves around catching/forcing people out of jump range of a hole. Just off the top of my head things that would either no longer be possible or just not useful tactics anymore.


  • Hole control/Eviction style massing of holes. The entire concept of an eviction in w-space generally revolves around denying the opposing party all access and chance to use wormholes via keeping them crit and bubbles up to not allow them to roll/close them. (side note/ this will make holes with direct high sec connections basically impossible to evict)

  • Fire walling via dictor bubbles to prevent reinforcements/capitals from landing in optimal combat range is one of the more effective tactics a smaller well organized force has fight/gank a larger group. Removal of drag bubbles past 500km ensures such fights are just a n+1 affair.

  • Bubble camping W-space/highsec holes to catch people who don't scout. The entire activity becomes pointless if they can just warp blindly to the hole and still land at zero.

  • Placing drag bubbles between pos/citadels/holes to catch people useing as a pipeline.

The net result of this change from the perspective of a longtime wormholer and w-space CEO will be less killmails/less chance for interaction with people via pvp and a generally less risk environment



#CCPleasesavethebubble!

Public Channel | Un.Welcome
Mimiko Severovski
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#56 - 2016-07-01 14:47:57 UTC
lol good solution ccp warpinsteadofalign
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#57 - 2016-07-01 14:51:45 UTC
Please god no. Why nerf bubbles just because null seccers are too lazy to use pings in unscouted and unfamiliar systems?

Stop nerfing gameplay to reward the lazy.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#58 - 2016-07-01 14:54:12 UTC
gatecamper calls roaming solo pvpers lazy
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#59 - 2016-07-01 14:55:27 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
Against.

In addditon to the many other excellent points raised.

Alot of wormholes have bubble traps around their POSs/Citadels designed to trap people who warp to moons. Im assuming this change would ruin that. Manyof people have a great deal of enjoyment from catching scouts as they get stuck on the bubble trap and destroyed by the guns or a waiting sabre/interceptor.

Please dont just balance the game for nullsec lazy travellers

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#60 - 2016-07-01 15:05:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Vic Jefferson
Good change.

it's not even that people minded occasionally minded the combination of:

A)Not having a tactical
B)Not having a nearby celestial to dscan the gate before warping to it
C)Not having an inty in the gang.

...it's that there was not way for a small roaming gang to deal with them. I never minded when sov-holders dropped a bajillion supers on me - that was fine they put toys on the field and made plays. It's the fact that the use of citadels has absolutely zero risk against a small roaming gang - this characteristically un-eve like.

Also you should make gate rats shoot bubbles already. It's dumb they just remain forever.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?