These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why does a corp want my api?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kieron VonDeux
#101 - 2016-05-09 20:55:28 UTC
wrote:
Lucas Kell
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Now don't get me wrong. I fully support the purpose of the API Key feature, but I think it could be improved.
Sure enough, most systems can be improved. What kind of improvements were you thinking?



By not changing anything in the API Key feature. I know right.

I think we should alter the gameplay around spying in order to reduce the apparent need for such complete information from prospective new members. Regardless what any individual would want to remove from the current API, someone will have built their entire gameplay around that feature.

Its a domino effect. The fact that a single spy given enough time to social engineer his way into position that he can single handedly destroy an organization within minutes to hours of deciding to or steal majority of their assets if planned right creates an environment where many Corporate Recruiters feel compelled to demand that they gain access to as much of your in-game information that think they can safety get you to turn over in the hopes of ensuring you are not the grand spy master they fear you are when the grand spy master they fear would not leave the very trail they are looking for.

Single players in this game can do what significant RL organizations have issues accomplishing. While that may sound cool a single player should not be able to affect thousands of players singlehandedly to that extent.

Spies are a very important aspect of this game, but Corporate and Alliance leaders should be able to determine that it takes a certain number of a specific group of members to do things such as kick Corps, transfer significant assets, or many other things that can affect an organization to that level. That should be based upon their needs and not just a single standard for everyone as it is now.

That is why we have the "two-man" rule in RL. Its time Eve Online did that. But we can't tell who will be around when so it should be a chosen variable number of people in a certain group to agree to do things like kick Corps from Alliance, transfer isk from corporate accounts, or off-line critical assets and such.

Therefore the effect of spies will be more localized depending on how individual organizations set up their security policy.

While this will not change the fact that we need to screen new members, it should make it less of an issue for many and maybe this slow creep of wanting more and more information will stall out or reverse.

If a spy cannot by himself or even with a cohort disband an Alliance, steal a dread fleet, or empty the Corp wallet, then you may only be worried about the guy on Comms where good Op Sec policy can effectively make him pretty much useless.

Thefts would still happen but players could control how much one person could steal. Then it would be more about a leaders ignorance of the management tools instead of the one person that could bring it all down.

Then. hopefully, no one would want to see our Wallets, our Eve Mail, our alts (so much), or anything else that some players are sensitive about and we players won't ask "why do they want my API Key?",

Well, maybe some still will, but just not so often.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#102 - 2016-05-10 05:19:01 UTC
The ability to steal from a Corp or even disband an Alliance is not tied to APIs.

It's a function of roles, which is managed through the very clunky in game UI for Corporations and Alliances.

I think you re confusing issues here.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2016-05-10 06:20:04 UTC
May Arethusa wrote:
It's less about constant observation, and more about keeping your records up to date. When I was responsible for API checks, I would expect them to be non-expiring. This isn't so I can keep tabs on you, trawling through multiple APIs each day is not something most people enjoy doing. Beyond the initial check, most APIs never get looked at again until a situation arises that requires people to look at them again.

The last time someone tried to steal something from my previous corp, it was easy to narrow down the possible suspects because only a handful of people didn't have valid API keys.
People are right to question why they should be required to provide this information, but in most situations it is for their own benefit. If you walked into a bank and saw their vault open and stacks of gold bars on display with no security in sight, would you open an account there? I'd hope not, and the same is true of Corp security. Having been the guy checking APIs, I find it somewhat reassuring that someone is at least attempting to keep an eye out for spies, thieves, and awoxers when I apply to a corp.

The API check was not able to prevent the theft but was used to find the culprit. So you don't really need a non expiring full api. And even in that case you wouldn't need a full api, the wallet and possessions would do. Where was the main problem with the guys you asked for the api and they gave it to you? Most people that will pull such a stunt will leave immediately after so why have these API's?
IMHO this is a bad design by CCP that you have to go through all the personal data instead having a log who took what from the hangars. Maybe simplified just to an summed up account like "Player X has taken/donated X ISK to the corp this month". If you take a ship it is simply calculated by Jita prices as a Minus.

This example shows my critic on non expiring full api's. They are generally useless unless you are really paranoid and use computer programs to monitor all the communication and buddy lists of your members. There is no other way to,maybe, prefent awoxes but I think this takes the meta game way to far.
For clarification: I don't mind when someone checks my api at invitation but constant full 'API is way over the top. If they think they need to constantly monitor me they shouldn't invite me in the beginning.

And I think that the ability to pull awoxes is kept ingame intentionally. It's like ganking in High or scams: It's still possible but limited. Same goes for awoxes: they are part of the meta game an so the holes in the game mechanic are there to make them possible.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#104 - 2016-05-10 08:32:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
its ok corps wanting the API, simply because they are there and players hardly can refuse if they wanna join.

its not ok however, that APIs in current form and shape are there at all. They shouldn't exist, to start with.

Want people in your corp? Ok, then learn to learn them first, so far you can trust them. Would be maybe even a solution to the megablobs where noone really knows each other.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#105 - 2016-05-10 12:18:31 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
its ok corps wanting the API, simply because they are there and players hardly can refuse if they wanna join.

its not ok however, that APIs in current form and shape are there at all. They shouldn't exist, to start with.

Want people in your corp? Ok, then learn to learn them first, so far you can trust them. Would be maybe even a solution to the megablobs where noone really knows each other.


That's pretty narrow-minded. Without APIs, we wouldn't have all the awesome tools we have like Evemon, EveHQ, all the trading/asset tools, the import abilities with EFT/Pyfa/etc... the list goes on. Whether you're in a corporation or not, those are very powerful and useful things.

On top of that, if you do find it valuable to join an established corporation/alliance with decent infrastructure like forums, comms, wikis, etc, then a non-expiring API key is the only way to keep access and authentication up to date with current membership.

API keys do far more good than the perceived bad that all the doomsayers are alluding to here. It's a non-issue really. My full account APIs have been in the hands of various corps/alliances/coalitions for years and I've never had any problem arise from it.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#106 - 2016-05-10 13:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
The full API key request is a form of security theatre.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#107 - 2016-05-10 14:27:35 UTC
Honestly, the most important aspect of giving up an API is for out-of-game services management like forums and comms. Alliances will use these to ensure only their alliance members can access these services.

The second use is as most folks have mentioned already; to inspect your account for suspicious activity. It won't filter out an experienced and dedicated spy. But it will keep out the riff-raff.

No harm can be done to your account by giving out an API key, and you can always delete it if need be.

If you choose not to give out an API key, you will never get into a relevant Eve Online organization.

Even if you are not a spy, if you join a corp that does not require API keys, expect your stuff to eventually get stolen by the spy or simple corp thief that does get in.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#108 - 2016-05-11 06:56:28 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
May Arethusa wrote:
Stuff.

The API check was not able to prevent the theft but was used to find the culprit. So you don't really need a non expiring full api. And even in that case you wouldn't need a full api, the wallet and possessions would do. Where was the main problem with the guys you asked for the api and they gave it to you? Most people that will pull such a stunt will leave immediately after so why have these API's?
IMHO this is a bad design by CCP that you have to go through all the personal data instead having a log who took what from the hangars. Maybe simplified just to an summed up account like "Player X has taken/donated X ISK to the corp this month". If you take a ship it is simply calculated by Jita prices as a Minus.

This example shows my critic on non expiring full api's. They are generally useless unless you are really paranoid and use computer programs to monitor all the communication and buddy lists of your members. There is no other way to,maybe, prefent awoxes but I think this takes the meta game way to far.
For clarification: I don't mind when someone checks my api at invitation but constant full 'API is way over the top. If they think they need to constantly monitor me they shouldn't invite me in the beginning.

And I think that the ability to pull awoxes is kept ingame intentionally. It's like ganking in High or scams: It's still possible but limited. Same goes for awoxes: they are part of the meta game an so the holes in the game mechanic are there to make them possible.


While my examples were specifically directed towards the idea of Orwellian levels of surveillance raised in the post I quoted, your conclusion is somewhat flawed.

In my first example, the man in question believed he would get away with it because we didn't have his API. He had no intention of leaving, and when confronted with the evidence claimed the whole thing was a stunt to highlight our lack of security. It was quite amusing really, he intentionally restricted his theft to open access hangars in the hopes we would assume it was some random opportunistic recruit. There was never a great deal of value in those items (we're talking about assorted loot from newbros and FW farmers here), and we'd already written off their loss as a minor inconvenience. In the end, he proved our system worked as far as line members were concerned and simultaneously destroyed what little trust had been placed in him.

In the second, our thief had bypassed the usual security checks by befriending the CEO, who accepted the application without question.

Would having both their APIs in the first place have prevented their actions? That's impossible to say, had our CEO's new bestie been funneled through the proper channels and refused to submit his API, he wouldn't have gotten much further. Had our self-appointed "security advisor" known his actions were easily detected, would he have risked humiliating himself over such a paltry sum? Probably not.

In the end, API checks can act as a filter that is as restrictive as you want it to be. Yes, I'm going to read your mails. I want to know what kind of person you are, I've seen both remarkable acts of kindness and a staggering amount of douchebaggery on display that people either didn't care about revealing, or were too stupid to realise they were doing so. Yes, I'll check your wallet too. Are you a sucker for isk doublers? Can I start my own in-corp isk doubling service to capitalise on this? Have you been donating to people we're not fond of? Undeclared alts? Why are you hiding them? It isn't just a matter of paranoia, although caution is certainly a part of it. Each mail, contact, and transaction helps build a picture of the person hoping to join your corp. I'm not just interested in whether they're going to steal all our pixels, or shoot the wrong people, I want to know if they're going to fit in. Perhaps this is a result of recruiting for typically smaller corps, my experiences with larger eorp/alliance recruitment processes tend to suggest if you tick the right boxes it doesn't matter if you're literally Hitler.

As far as non-expiring keys go, they have their uses. Many people have referenced various external management systems for assorted access rights and monitoring. Yet many smaller groups won't need/use these, and the information granted by the API is all they have to work with. Personally, I used the requirement to tighten my net and ensure there were no gaps in the records I kept. For those who aren't happy with providing such information, there are plenty of corps out there that don't have this requirement. I fail to see the problem, the system serves its purpose well.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2016-05-11 13:42:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
May Arethusa wrote:

In the end, API checks can act as a filter that is as restrictive as you want it to be. Yes, I'm going to read your mails. I want to know what kind of person you are, I've seen both remarkable acts of kindness and a staggering amount of douchebaggery on display that people either didn't care about revealing, or were too stupid to realise they were doing so. Yes, I'll check your wallet too. Are you a sucker for isk doublers? Can I start my own in-corp isk doubling service to capitalise on this? Have you been donating to people we're not fond of? Undeclared alts? Why are you hiding them? It isn't just a matter of paranoia, although caution is certainly a part of it. Each mail, contact, and transaction helps build a picture of the person hoping to join your corp. I'm not just interested in whether they're going to steal all our pixels, or shoot the wrong people, I want to know if they're going to fit in. Perhaps this is a result of recruiting for typically smaller corps, my experiences with larger eorp/alliance recruitment processes tend to suggest if you tick the right boxes it doesn't matter if you're literally Hitler.

As far as non-expiring keys go, they have their uses. Many people have referenced various external management systems for assorted access rights and monitoring. Yet many smaller groups won't need/use these, and the information granted by the API is all they have to work with. Personally, I used the requirement to tighten my net and ensure there were no gaps in the records I kept. For those who aren't happy with providing such information, there are plenty of corps out there that don't have this requirement. I fail to see the problem, the system serves its purpose well.

You are mixing something: non expiring limited keys, where I have no problems with, and non expiring full keys. If you apply for a new Job would they ask for your personal E-Mail/Facebook Password? Full access Bank account? All your game data? They have viable interest in it: maybe you are a spy for Greenpeace or you have debts and are more prone to stealing. Or you are playing all night and are tired in the morning. They don't ask it not because they don't want to but because it's simply forbidden. And ingame we accept such scruteny? Personal info is personal info no matter if ingame or out. Check my wallet constantly: no problem, my alts: no problem, my mail: no way!
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#110 - 2016-05-11 16:25:48 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
You are mixing something: non expiring limited keys, where I have no problems with, and non expiring full keys. If you apply for a new Job would they ask for your personal E-Mail/Facebook Password? Full access Bank account? All your game data? They have viable interest in it: maybe you are a spy for Greenpeace or you have debts and are more prone to stealing. Or you are playing all night and are tired in the morning. They don't ask it not because they don't want to but because it's simply forbidden. And ingame we accept such scruteny? Personal info is personal info no matter if ingame or out. Check my wallet constantly: no problem, my alts: no problem, my mail: no way!
It's not done in real life (most of the time, there are agencies you can work for which would put you under tougher than usual scrutiny) because there's no reason for them to access it as they are protected anyway by law. Yes you may be a thief and be mailing about it to your mate, but if you get caught, you're done. In game, not so much, so corporations have to run their security much tighter. API keys allow them to do that. If you treasure your data that much, that's fine, don't join corporations that need it, but that doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong or bad by asking for it.

Personally I wouldn't join a corporation if they didn't ask me fore my full API, as I'd know that means they aren't properly vetting other corporation members, which puts me at an increased level of risk when I commit anything to the corp.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#111 - 2016-05-11 18:47:02 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
May Arethusa wrote:
...

You are mixing something: non expiring limited keys, where I have no problems with, and non expiring full keys. If you apply for a new Job would they ask for your personal E-Mail/Facebook Password? Full access Bank account? All your game data? They have viable interest in it: maybe you are a spy for Greenpeace or you have debts and are more prone to stealing. Or you are playing all night and are tired in the morning. They don't ask it not because they don't want to but because it's simply forbidden. And ingame we accept such scruteny? Personal info is personal info no matter if ingame or out. Check my wallet constantly: no problem, my alts: no problem, my mail: no way!


Actually I'm not. When I addressed the issue of non-expiring keys, I intentionally didn't specify whether they were full or limited and explained why for some people, a non-expiring full API was more beneficial. You're welcome to disagree, and if you had done so when applying to my corp I would have politely explained that it was corp policy and directed you elsewhere. There's no obligation for you to provide this information, and as such, the system works. Having seen people lazily forwarding fleet schedules, alliance/corp mails, and declarations of "this is X's alt, don't shoot me" in their mail I stand by my decision to request that level of access. Nobody is forcing you to comply.
Rook Moray
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2016-05-11 19:46:08 UTC
Join HORDE.

No API, no background check.

Spais are welcomed! I bet in the first week, you'll be having so much fun and making so much ISK, that you'll totally forget that you're a spai.

Of course, the drawback is that every other alliance thinks you're a spai....but since you probably are one, that's ok.

“When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.” -Guristas Proverb.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#113 - 2016-05-11 19:58:24 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
You are mixing something: non expiring limited keys, where I have no problems with, and non expiring full keys. If you apply for a new Job would they ask for your personal E-Mail/Facebook Password? Full access Bank account? All your game data? They have viable interest in it: maybe you are a spy for Greenpeace or you have debts and are more prone to stealing. Or you are playing all night and are tired in the morning. They don't ask it not because they don't want to but because it's simply forbidden. And ingame we accept such scruteny? Personal info is personal info no matter if ingame or out. Check my wallet constantly: no problem, my alts: no problem, my mail: no way!
It's not done in real life (most of the time, there are agencies you can work for which would put you under tougher than usual scrutiny) because there's no reason for them to access it as they are protected anyway by law. Yes you may be a thief and be mailing about it to your mate, but if you get caught, you're done. In game, not so much, so corporations have to run their security much tighter. API keys allow them to do that. If you treasure your data that much, that's fine, don't join corporations that need it, but that doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong or bad by asking for it.

Personally I wouldn't join a corporation if they didn't ask me fore my full API, as I'd know that means they aren't properly vetting other corporation members, which puts me at an increased level of risk when I commit anything to the corp.


I dont often agree with lucas but im with him here.

If you have assets you would not like to risk,
a corp letting you in the door without taking an api key is a big bastarding red flag.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Clrdark4se
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#114 - 2016-05-11 23:33:35 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Pivo Ace wrote:
Why do they want to see "Full API - not negotiable" ?

Because, probably for some totally unwarranted reason, they think they might be someone worth spying on and so think that by demanding your API, they are somehow protected.

They probably heard that's what all the cool Corp's do, so they'll do it to.

In other words, they have no clue what they are doing.

Unless they are giving you roles in the Corp (which would be stupid for someone just joining), there's really no reason they need your API.


I used to feel the same as you and the OP. Now I am a recruiter in a large Corp and I have been shown a side of the Corp and game that I never knew. I surely have a much more profound respect for recruiters and management in general Cool

Full API's do show a lot and help tremendously in identifying not just spies, but also, players who may not fit properly into your Corp/Alliance culture. I will not say how I do my BG Checks (OP Sec) but I can tell you they do work.

On another note...I will also agree, the API System as it stands, could use a good overhaul. I understand how a player who does not know EVE could be confused when a Corp is asking for such information. I felt very uncomfortable back in the day. Now I know the game better and having my API checked by my Corp is really no big deal....unless you have something to hide Twisted
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#115 - 2016-05-12 03:39:36 UTC
Clrdark4se wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Pivo Ace wrote:
Why do they want to see "Full API - not negotiable" ?

Because, probably for some totally unwarranted reason, they think they might be someone worth spying on and so think that by demanding your API, they are somehow protected.

They probably heard that's what all the cool Corp's do, so they'll do it to.

In other words, they have no clue what they are doing.

Unless they are giving you roles in the Corp (which would be stupid for someone just joining), there's really no reason they need your API.


I used to feel the same as you and the OP. Now I am a recruiter in a large Corp and I have been shown a side of the Corp and game that I never knew. I surely have a much more profound respect for recruiters and management in general Cool

Full API's do show a lot and help tremendously in identifying not just spies, but also, players who may not fit properly into your Corp/Alliance culture. I will not say how I do my BG Checks (OP Sec) but I can tell you they do work.

On another note...I will also agree, the API System as it stands, could use a good overhaul. I understand how a player who does not know EVE could be confused when a Corp is asking for such information. I felt very uncomfortable back in the day. Now I know the game better and having my API checked by my Corp is really no big deal....unless you have something to hide Twisted

Actually, I'd say I N F A M O U S is one of the Alliances that doesn't fit into the group I was talking about.

You guys own quite a lot of space, across 3 regions.

You are slightly exposed in Querious, because your systems sit close to both Delve and Catch and similarly in Immensea where you have FCON having just taken space in the region and the constellation you are in has some reasonably good true sec.

So I N F A M O U S would be more on my list of Alliances that probably have reasons for background checks, especially as you have 1700 members. That's a large group to keep entertained.

I was more referring to the mum and pop level Corps that ask for full account APIs. I don't have any screenshots right now, but it's funny seeing them spam recruitment adds in local in starter systems, indicating a full API is needed. You see it in the recruitment channel too.

Most of the Corps have absolutely 0 reason to think they are important, but they do anyway.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2016-05-12 06:46:44 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
It's not done in real life (most of the time, there are agencies you can work for which would put you under tougher than usual scrutiny) because there's no reason for them to access it as they are protected anyway by law. Yes you may be a thief and be mailing about it to your mate, but if you get caught, you're done. In game, not so much, so corporations have to run their security much tighter. API keys allow them to do that. If you treasure your data that much, that's fine, don't join corporations that need it, but that doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong or bad by asking for it.

Personally I wouldn't join a corporation if they didn't ask me fore my full API, as I'd know that means they aren't properly vetting other corporation members, which puts me at an increased level of risk when I commit anything to the corp.

You can do with your Datas what you want. The real problem is, that ONLY the email your write belong to you. The emails you RECEIVE belongs to the sender and "publishing" this is a legal no-go. digital media law
You can call it over the top to talk legal status here but it's a fact.

I know that emails show a lot about the person but that's exactly the point. It gives TOO MUCH information. If you want to know if someone fits in talk to him. If he doesn't fit in kick him there is nothing that will stop you.
I can see the reason for recruiters to make a BG check and to know him better but there are limits. And I doubt that most spies will enter a company just to rob it. The amount of work to get into a position where he can do real harm is just crazy and nobody can guarantee that he will ever get into such a position. In a big corp there are always senior members that will be more qualified to do the job. So if you want to pull a corp rob you will most likely target young growing corps.

You are are right that there is no law in New Eden to punish Awoxers but on the other side we are talking about pixels in virtual space. We in Europe have very strict laws about personal information and email is personal no matter if it's within a computer game or RL.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#117 - 2016-05-12 07:08:41 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:

You can do with your Datas what you want. The real problem is, that ONLY the email your write belong to you. The emails you RECEIVE belongs to the sender and "publishing" this is a legal no-go. digital media law
You can call it over the top to talk legal status here but it's a fact.

I know that emails show a lot about the person but that's exactly the point. It gives TOO MUCH information...
...
You are are right that there is no law in New Eden to punish Awoxers but on the other side we are talking about pixels in virtual space. We in Europe have very strict laws about personal information and email is personal no matter if it's within a computer game or RL.

............................................________
....................................,.-'"...................``~.,
.............................,.-"..................................."-.,
.........................,/...............................................":,
.....................,?......................................................,
.................../...........................................................,}
................./......................................................,:`^`..}
.............../...................................................,:"........./
..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../
............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/
..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}
...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"
............/.`~,......`-...................................../
.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__
,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-,
.....`=~-,__......`,.................................
...................`=~-,,.,...............................
................................`:,,...........................`..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_..........._,-%.......`
...................................,

Internet lawyering is bad and you should feel bad.

Go read the EULA and TOS. Then stand in front of the mirror and repeat 100 times:

"I shall never internet lawyer again, until I have a law degree and know what I'm talking about"

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2016-05-12 07:53:37 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

............................................________
....................................,.-'"...................``~.,
.............................,.-"..................................."-.,
.........................,/...............................................":,
.....................,?......................................................,
.................../...........................................................,}
................./......................................................,:`^`..}
.............../...................................................,:"........./
..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../
............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/
..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}
...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"
............/.`~,......`-...................................../
.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__
,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-,
.....`=~-,__......`,.................................
...................`=~-,,.,...............................
................................`:,,...........................`..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_..........._,-%.......`
...................................,

Internet lawyering is bad and you should feel bad.

Go read the EULA and TOS. Then stand in front of the mirror and repeat 100 times:

"I shall never internet lawyer again, until I have a law degree and know what I'm talking about"

Nice facepalm.

But that doesn't change the point that searching email is way to invasiv just for entering some virtual pixel corp, IMHO.
Point me where I'm wrong so. I don't go all the way to state that any email has copyrights, that's bullshit, but it's private Information nevertheless. Or else the NSA scandal wouldn't have been a scandal.
Let's just state that some people have different ideas how much personal information someone else is entitled to sift through just for entering a pixel corp.
Hawke Frost
#119 - 2016-05-12 08:19:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Hawke Frost
You should probably stick to minning.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#120 - 2016-05-12 08:33:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Point me where I'm wrong so. I don't go all the way to state that any email has copyrights, that's bullshit, but it's private Information nevertheless. Or else the NSA scandal wouldn't have been a scandal.
Let's just state that some people have different ideas how much personal information someone else is entitled to sift through just for entering a pixel corp.

Like I wrote in the previous post, go read the EULA and TOS.

However, since I have them open anyway, here's 3 relevant sections/clauses:

EULA Section 7:

A. Communications

Except for certain information in your Account (discussed below), all transmissions by you to the System are not private. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms.

Then, EULA Section 10:

A. Ownership of Software, System and Game

As between you and CCP, CCP is the sole and exclusive owner of the Software, System, Game and Game Content (as defined below). The Software, System, Game and all Game Content are protected by law governing copyrights, trademarks and other proprietary rights. CCP reserves all rights not expressly granted herein.

The Game is comprised of, without limitation, software code, programs, routines, subroutines, objects, files, data, characters (and items, currency, objects and attributes comprising or associated with a character or an Account), graphics, sound effects, music, animation, video, text, content, layout, design and other information downloaded from and accessible through the System (collectively, the "Game Content").

and Terms of Service, clause 19:

19. You may not communicate, post or publicize any subscriber’s personal information within the EVE Online game world or website.

There are several other relevant clauses, however those 3 are a good summary and you have agreed to acknowledge and accept them all when you signed up to the game.

From those 3 alone:

1. You have no expectation of privacy, including when using in game mail
2. You don't own anything you do in game. CCP owns it all (including the mails your character sends)
3. You agree not to communication any personal information in game

Now, go say those lines because internet lawyering without a law degree and a speciality in the area is bad.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."