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With the missiles I posted their DPS, with the bombs I posted their burst damage and DPS. DPS is damage per shot multiplied by firerate. Damage per second is NOT "the fire rate multiplied by damage per second".

The problem with killing the logi first is that the damage dealt by the Citadel is so small that the logi can very easily heal each other faster than the Citadel can deal damage. That is just silly, a Citadel is supposed to be a military emplacement, a Citadel, a fortress. It should not be easy to take one on with zero casualties.

With the stats right now, having a Citadel on field gives you about the same DPS, under optimal conditions, as 4 tech1 battleships, for an immensely higher cost and without mobility. I admit that I had not factored Fighters into it.

Looking at fighters now, taking Dragonfly I's as the example, 5 full squadrons gets you 718.2dps according to my skills on the test server. 718 from fighters, plus 1443 from 3 anti-cruiser missile launchers, and you have about 2161 DPS applicable to cruisers and up. This is still outdone with 2-3 Tech1 battleships, and very easily outrepped by a small amount of logi.

Again, as it stands, it's impossible for the Citadel to even kill any attackers unless it has an equally large and powerful fleet with it, because it is outperformed by a handful of ships that take a minute fraction of the cost. And if you need to have a fleet that's more powerful than the enemy fleet, what help is the Citadel? it offers no military advantage and would be more of a liability due to its cost and immobility.



I don't know where you get the idea that the bombs deal the entire EHP of their class size. How is 4k damage equal to a Tech1 Cruiser's HP? Or a battlecruiser? or a battleship?


One thing that I failed to factor in was the neut bombs. They neut 4000 raw GJ, with an explosion radius of 500. Against a Guardian logi cruiser, for example, that comes out to only 14% effectiveness due to its signature of ~70. 4000GJ from the bomb, multiplied by 0.14 due to the target's signature, comes out to about 560GJ neuted. Divided by the 20 second firing rate of the bombs, that's only 28GJ/s neuted.

To me, that sounds negligible.

If you need a fleet strong enough to beat the attackers on their own to defend a Citadel, why have the Citadel? Your fleet can beat them without its help anyways, so what military purpose does the Citadel serve?

It only takes 3-5 logi ships to outrep the damage from a Citadel depending on composition, and if you're using basilisks or guardians said logi ships can out-cap the citadel's neuts. You can only fit 5 ECM max, which means only 5 logi can be jammed, so if you bring 10-15 logi and 5-10 tech 1 battleships, your citadel is being outperformed and will not be able to defend itself.

A station that is difficult to manufacture, difficult to transport, difficult to construct, and difficult to maintain, should not be able to be destroyed by 20 ships that cost a minute fraction of the cost and effort. If a fortification is difficult and expensive to put up, it should be more difficult and expensive to take it down.

yeah, so?
A fleet with 10-15 logi in it is not really small anymore, at that point its ok that you cant solo that with a small citadel.

Yes 3-5 logi can out rep the citadels damage but every bit of damage they need to rep because of the citadel is damage they can bit rep from your fleet.


When ccp announced citadles they said that without a defending fleet even a shall attack force could siege them. Also remember the mods we have now are only meta 1 so they can't be all that strong so that there is still room for higher meta weapons.

if we're talking military and combat strength, why have a Citadel when a couple of battleships is more effective for a fraction of the cost?

If it's not going to be a fortress, why call it a Citadel? With how weak its defenses are, all it's useful as is a market platform, not as any kind of military emplacement. Their name should be changed to "Economic Platform" or similar if their combat ability is going to be so anemic.

for the cost of a Fortizar with tech 2 rigs, you can buy about 90 or so tech 1 battleships, and you only need a handful of those to kill a Fortizar

With how it is now, only the big powerblocs will be able to deploy and maintain Citadels because of the manpower required to defend them. Only the big established powerblocs will be capable of keeping them alive longer than the first vulnerability window. I thought CCP was trying to steer things away a bit from big monolithic powerblocs?

Even in highsec, you won't be able to deploy and maintain the Citadels, no matter the size, without a big group because of wardecs.

It's just silly, it's like a joke from a sci-fi comedy. The big incompetent space empire builds a huge war station, and they arm it with slingshots and popcorn blowguns.

Imagine every sci-fi movie or show about a battlestation being attacked, except make them unable to kill even a single one from a group of 5-10 ships. Pretty boring battle sequence, isn't it? Underwhelming and dissatisfying. That's how Citadel battles will end up if they aren't buffed significantly.

I still repeat, it would be FAR BETTER for the Citadels to be overpowered at release than underpowered. It would be pretty crappy if people deployed Citadels, they got destroyed in a complete curbstomp, then CCP buffed them afterwards. It would be much less objectionable for them to be too difficult to destroy at first, then CCP tuning them down afterwards.

The Citadels should be vulnerable during construction, but be extremely difficult to destroy once online and armed. It's just better from gameplay, narrative, balancing, advertising, and coolness perspectives to do it that way.

I think you severely underestimate the area of effect abilities, as well as the remote bump / minidoomsdays.

As "special ability" support for your fleet, they'll definitely make for interesting combats! Time will tell.

Not taking into account any shield, armor or hull resistances, that is how the numbers add up.

The Bombs are single-damage type based, correct? A single bomb of the appropriate type should at least carve straight through the shields of most Cruisers in one detonation.

But I digress, since you seem intent on only focusing on individual attributes, rather than concerning yourself with how you can use all the attributes of the Citadel together to mount an effective defense.

Anyone know if orca mining boosts will work while tethered ? I can't seem to find any info on this.