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New dev blog: Remember the old new Neocom?

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Dmian
Gallenterrorisme
#121 - 2012-01-12 00:47:32 UTC
Sakurako Kimino wrote:


edit due to site eatting my post

i know where your coming from but ccp has a habit of doing things in half then calling them done for 2 or more years

I knew you ment that. Blink

But I believe CCP has just embraced... AGILE DEVELOPMENT! Lol
(They probably lacked the isk to buy the skillbook!)

No, really, to me it looks like they changed their development cycles altogether, and this is the result. They are really delivering now. Or at least part of the team is working like that.
eaterofcheese
The Society of Odd Fellows
#122 - 2012-01-12 09:48:01 UTC
Nomad I wrote:
An example of a more clear neocom

Ick, that's rubbish

Quote:
In addition, why not making the HUD modular so that we would able to exchange the style every element and positioned it free around?

Whereas that isn't such a bad idea - if it could all be done in the client, requiring no extra server to client conversations.
Kallie Rae
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#123 - 2012-01-12 13:52:49 UTC
Well it looks great, but i was really looking forward to the bottom/top alignment, but looks like we'll have to wait a bit more time for that then :/
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#124 - 2012-01-12 18:00:15 UTC
I personally hope we get even more options to personalize our UI. For example I would like to see them semi-transparent 3D buttons, like in the Butterfly Effect trailer.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#125 - 2012-01-12 19:19:04 UTC
Like it, want it.... gimme gimme gimme :D
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2012-01-14 20:07:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
I died a little when I reviewed http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/3086/3362/Untitled2_550.png

More hierarchical menus makes EVE harder to use [for me].

I like being able to right click just about everything in EVE, but the precision needed to operate these menus makes their use draining and error prone.

What are the alternatives?

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#127 - 2012-01-15 12:42:08 UTC
+1 HATE for hierarchical menus.

Acessories is annoying enough....

"Business" and "social" too.... JUST NO! Crap feature if adding another layer of crap we have to filter through to get to what we want is a feature.

If contracts get removed from the left of my screen, I'll be angry and I hope the buttons there will be customisable for example.
Rixiu
PonyTek
#128 - 2012-01-15 17:36:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rixiu
I have to join the hierarchical menus-suck wing. That's so windows 95, we're in 2011 now and hierarchical menus are long gone. Then again, CCP seem to be stuck somewhere in the past millennia when it comes to UI and just equals :shiny: with :better: when it's not the case. Remove the damn hierarchical menu, it's unacceptable in 2011!
Kabaos
Fulgur lumene
#129 - 2012-01-19 14:55:56 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
CCP Optimal and friends have been working on improving the user interface for our EVE, and a significant step in that direction is the new Neocom. In this blog, Optimal tells you all about it and shows you pictures as well!

Your feedback is eagerly awaited.



I want that Neocom panel will be HORIZONTAL - please!
Nikon Evenstar
X3 Enterprises
#130 - 2012-01-20 01:14:21 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
+1 HATE for hierarchical menus.

Acessories is annoying enough....

"Business" and "social" too.... JUST NO! Crap feature if adding another layer of crap we have to filter through to get to what we want is a feature.

If contracts get removed from the left of my screen, I'll be angry and I hope the buttons there will be customisable for example.


*facepalm*

Try reading the devblog for starters. The whole point of the new neocom is that it is customisable. You don't have to go through any menu at all after you've added the buttons you need to the neocom.
nardaq
Orion Expeditions
#131 - 2012-01-22 00:47:39 UTC  |  Edited by: nardaq
minimize chat windows and auto hide neocom, uberfail.
( and even with no auto hide, moar bling, and u sure u make is click more
to get the proper window back Shocked i didnt ask for this at all, current neocom is all fine Cool

For the love of god, can i get the windows i minimize down @ bottom at screen, or at least make it OPTIONAL

SPLIT the opened windows icons witch will show @ neocom from the rest? (like when you're docked)
(why on earth they needed to added to the neocom in the first place

Add option to use classic neocom

CCP, you are working to much with the win7 taskbar, tjezzz
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#132 - 2012-01-23 17:04:06 UTC
The horizontal neocom with its menus is the same stuff we have in Windows.

Just make EvE a dynamic wallpaper and merge its dozen buttons in Windows menus.

At this point, I'll have the perfect world: Excel integrated with EvE and EvE starts with the computer Lol

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
#133 - 2012-01-23 23:30:21 UTC
Ehhh all I see is that it is transparent... (ok and that little progress bar... hmkay)

hm didn't we that stuff about making EVERYTHING transparent just because we can before ??


<< not too excited, realy>>
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#134 - 2012-01-24 14:16:59 UTC
Ugh - I can't stand the new "flashing" animation. Especially for the "chat" button. Bring back the old "make background brighter".

Or give us a way to turn off the flash animation for individual buttons.
Tek Handle
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#135 - 2012-01-24 14:54:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tek Handle
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Or give us a way to turn off the flash animation for individual buttons.


THIS! I want flashing tabs in my chat window, but not on the fricking chat button on the neocom. Evil
Or at least.. let us remove this button from the shortcut bar..
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#136 - 2012-01-24 15:02:41 UTC
And we need a new "smaller" version of the neocom buttons - the new button sizes are 10-20% larger then the old, shaving a few more precious pixels off the left hand of the client when run in 1024x768 mode.
Talak Nar
Unconventional Warfare
#137 - 2012-01-24 15:04:45 UTC
Option to have old one back please. I'm not keen on the portrait at the top it looks stupid, it was better when you could open it up to full size or minimize it properly, name is a lot more elegant for the smaller size.

Fair enough if you like the new one, I just liked the old a lot more and would like the option to have it back if at all possible.
scatter gun
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2012-01-24 15:49:57 UTC  |  Edited by: scatter gun
mkint wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:
TheLostPenguin wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:
The Neocom now also takes care of hosting minimized windows, so the unreadable slab of buttons that formed at the bottom of your screen is gone forever.

Not sure about this part, if as it appears from reading the blog minimised windows now go to hide on the neocom there seems little point minimising them, for me a large part of the reason for doing so is NOT having to open the neocom to click back on a button. If this could become optional in a later release it'd be great, removing functionality (even it it doesn't look like it to you) is allways a bad thing.

Rixiu wrote:

Not a fan of the toggle-minimize behaviour. Prefer the toggle-close one we have now.

This should really be an option set for each window, do you want it to toggle open/closed or open/minimised as neither is ideal to apply to everything.


Other than that it sounds good, looks like it might finally be possible to shovel the 80% of stuff I never use on neocom off to the depths of the client and just have the 2 or 3 buttons I do use to hand, roll on sorting out the annoying glitches with window behaviour (esp stacked windows) nextBig smile


Removing functionality is very bad, unless you replace it with something better and that's what we're hoping to do with the new Neocom. If you still won't agree after having used it for a while, obviously we'll need to iterate.

Devs have a long history of really really sucking at what counts as "better."

For me, the worst part about the old new neocom, and the horizontal alignment, was that you have 30 different windows that look like [?]. Like some dev is saying "I don't even know what the f*ck this window is!" Just like the ctrl-tab window became useless when it was switched to icons, you're making the minimized windows equally useless. Your design is bad and you should feel bad. You're admitting to "selling out" to "awesum". Remember how big a flop it was last time that happened?

This is totally premature. The EVE UI sucks noodles. A very small portion of it is in how you access it. How you access any particular window or tool in the game is a matter of memorizing where it is located. Now you're throwing away the millions of man-hours put into memorization, and you're making it harder for vets to tell rookies "oh, to access your fitting in space you need to hit the fitting button on the neocom, 3rd button down." All this does is turn a huge shithole of a UI into a swirling shithole of a UI. Sorry, but this sounds like change for the sake of change, where not only does nothing get better, it actually gets worse.



i have to agree with the last bit of this commentary, i didnt play with the new neocom on SiSi and now im sitting with it on tranquility... Why couldnt you have left the NEW DEFAULT at least in the same order as the old setup.... now i have to sit and reorder my NEW neocom in a fashion that makes sense to me, which is going to be as accurately reproducing the old one as i can. as far as helping newer players find the right icons, im now going to have to tell them to just open the neocom window and find the desired window through there rather than try to tell them as quoted '3rd button down'... extra steps... do not like...

Onto my own input, Cargo/Drone bays that you have open on one ship. why not 'Active ships Cargo' rather than having to reorg windows if you change ships. the fact that everything attaches to the neo com as its opened but ONLY if its open is a little confusing as far as shuffling through 30 thousand different windows.

lack of text on the new neocom for IDENTICAL icons... so now i have 30 containers open sorting my goods, corp window, and 3 ships cargos, their drone bays, and a couple of 'show infow windows up', and i have to mouse over each one to see what it was(show info, corp hangar, and cargo containers are all SAME ICONS, ship cargo and dronebays are both same icon, and i havent tested stuff while in space yet...)... what happened to the old minimized WORDS that i could relatively quickly identify which window i needed back up at a glance. where is the click-minimize functionality with MULTIPLE like-item windows? why is it that every time i click a stacked item from the neocom it CLOSES the box forcing me to open it again?(on that front why does the neocom customization pop up close every time you drag an item to the shortcuts...) i have a group of freight cans opened in a stacked window, the neocom icon is 1 button, but i cant just bring the entire stack up by clicking the button, i have to click an individual window to actualy get the stack up...

there is MUCH change in this, and im not sure yet if i like it, and am not enthused abou tthe growing pains of learning to use it.

*afterthought 1*
misclickign the corp hangar icon on neocom now minimizes all stacked windows(items/ship hangar), why cant they all be one pin on the neocom rather than being 3 seperate pins... stacked cargo hold and containers(Freighter cargo+ associated Freight cans) show up as 2 pins... why not just make that ONE pin since its ONE stack of windows? like how it used to show up when minimized...
scatter gun
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2012-01-24 16:07:21 UTC  |  Edited by: scatter gun
(character limit reached)
*afterthought 2*
why are only items and ship hangars anchored at the bottom? why cant i anchor other usefull tabs down there(IE corp hangar, or ship cargos)?

just pulled up my orca pilot, ship cargo, ore hold, and corp hangar pin seperately even though i have them stacked... again with the STACKED windows should only be ONE pin, and why is ships corp hangar show as a can but station corp hangar shows as a 'blue i' icon?

some sort of identification break between ALWAYS PINNED icons and simply minimized icons? why is it possible to move minimized pins above ALWAYS PINNED pins? and then when closed why do they just simply default to the bottom again?

for those of us with multiple accounts, is there an option to import/export neocom settings to ALL accounts

*Afterthough 3*
back to that orca, clicking any of the FOUR pins for the SAME stacked window will minimize/maximize it where as a stack of cans you LOSE functionality from the neocom, WTF?

stacked windows should function like how they used to(minimizing together into ONE pin) and multiple instances of seperate stacks of like items should minimize SEPERATELY(ie freight cans in cargo and station/freight cans in personal/corp hangar)

im no programmer, but i would think a logical place to START would be to take all the old mechanics and just slap a new face on it with some extras, rather than what seems to be arbitrary NEW mechanics and calling it an update to functionality.

TL;DR?
new neocom = HEADACHE
Valuial
Marmottes In Space
#140 - 2012-01-24 16:43:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Valuial
No Way to get the taskbar aligned to bottom??? WTF this was the only interesting "feature" imo.

We need to be able to disable blinking by icon not the whole task bar it's stupid...

blinking anim is... well i don't care but this wavy **** is annoying...

pfff... so you haven't fixed anything, there is NO usefull aditionnal feature, well maybe the group things and the ability to remove one ore two icon but...

I don"t care about design stuff, a gray bar is a gray bar even if you add some alpha blending... WHERE IS TH STUF??

Disapointed on this one there is nothing

EDIT: after some test

-Groups are badly designed, now way to name them or make them look different (icon or color at least)
-icon's stacking is awfull and waste all attempt to clear the bar...
-where is all the announced flexibilty??