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New dev blog: Remember the old new Neocom?

First post First post
Author
Vegare
Bitslix
Lolsec Fockel
#101 - 2012-01-11 11:07:42 UTC
When did CCP actually change the current (old) Neocom so that you could close a window by clicking its icon a second time?

This is quite new and i noticed it only a few days agon. Beforehand it would only work with the fitting window and not with all of them as it does now! Just curious because i didn't see it in any patchnotes...
Kogh Ayon
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2012-01-11 11:24:21 UTC
Comparing with IE9, the current internet explorer can't be maximized and have some difficulity to manage the bookmarks, not menttion that watching youtube which is important feature of an internet explorer of an operating system.
Also, it would be nice if I can run windows explorer and run applications from the interface.Well, don't forget the emberded video player as well as the music player, which is not good enough.
StuRyan
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#103 - 2012-01-11 12:31:23 UTC
WTB a neocom that is LONG enough to support > 20 people in local.....

or

A neocom that "RED ALERTS" when reds enters local


LOL imagine that
eaterofcheese
The Society of Odd Fellows
#104 - 2012-01-11 12:56:57 UTC
J Kunjeh wrote:
Who moved my cheeeeese!?



All your cheese are belong to me
Shasz
Jupiter Roughriders
No Forks Given
#105 - 2012-01-11 13:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Shasz
JudgeBob wrote:

But, for the love of internet spaceships, why, oh WHY can't I resize windows to any size I want? Some windows, like People & Places and Science & Industry won't let me make them smaller and waste a LOT of valuable screen space. With the PIanets tab open on the Science & Industry window, 4/5 of the window is empty, yet I can't just shorten it up to just the small size I want it to be. A long time ago I used to be able to make the People & Places window very short to show just a few bookmarks, now I either have to leave the giant thing open all the time or keep toggling it. Each window should be possible to shorten almost all the way to the titlebar, or at least to the minimum height the scrollbar can be.

And my number one nitpicking gripe about UI... STOP CHANGING MY CAMERA VIEW! Why oh WHY does my camera get reset on every jump? I go to the trouble to zoom to the distance and angle that I want, NOTHING should ever change that but ME! If I want to be zoomed out to 100k and angled up a certain way, I shouldn't have to re-zoom and move my view every time I jump. JUST LEAVE MY CAMERA VIEW ALONE!


This!

Good grief Charlie Brown, let me resize a window to what I want - add scrollbars if you have to, or just leave the functionality I can't see hidden.

And yes please, remember the zoom level and camera angle I set in the previous system or last time I was undocked. How hard is that?

And while you're at it, please find the mystery UI settings bug that always either disables my overlay or closes my scan window every session change. It never fails, my client gets into one mode or the other no matter how often I clear the cache and windows locations. Either the scanner window closes itself when I dock / undock every time, or the range circle overlay thing disappears every system jump (despite the button itself still being highlighted blue, requiring 2 clicks to turn it off and on again)
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#106 - 2012-01-11 13:04:46 UTC
StuRyan wrote:
WTB a neocom that is LONG enough to support > 20 people in local.....


You might want to check out this post from CCP Punkturis where she mentions you will be able to have a compact version of the member lists in chat channels.

Great for seeing all the people you need to kill Pirate

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Adainy Gwanwyn
Project Blueprint Research Foundation
#107 - 2012-01-11 13:10:35 UTC
Erik Legant wrote:
Shade Millith wrote:
...
I don't care about the new one, I want the old one. Give me an option to keep the old one, and I'll be happy. You know, because this supposed new one is all about choice? How about giving people the CHOICE to keep the old, working one.

I don't care about 'prettifying' the damn game, the old NeoCom worked fine, without any problems. All I can see you doing is screwing it up, removing options that were once easily accessible and doing it the name of "Oh but it'll look so PRETTY!!!11 Who cares about doing extra clicks to find what used to be one click, it's PRETTY!!!"

This !

There's a ton of things that need to be fixed and you, CCP, can't thing to anything else than messing with the neocom. Seriously !

And, please, enough of this mac/windows 3D-like style with transparency effects everywhere. If I wanted to see that all day long, I'd play to minesweeper, not to eve.

--
Erik


Wait, Minesweeper has 3-D transparent graphical effects?
Adainy Gwanwyn
Project Blueprint Research Foundation
#108 - 2012-01-11 13:13:27 UTC
Shasz wrote:
JudgeBob wrote:

But, for the love of internet spaceships, why, oh WHY can't I resize windows to any size I want? Some windows, like People & Places and Science & Industry won't let me make them smaller and waste a LOT of valuable screen space. With the PIanets tab open on the Science & Industry window, 4/5 of the window is empty, yet I can't just shorten it up to just the small size I want it to be. A long time ago I used to be able to make the People & Places window very short to show just a few bookmarks, now I either have to leave the giant thing open all the time or keep toggling it. Each window should be possible to shorten almost all the way to the titlebar, or at least to the minimum height the scrollbar can be.

And my number one nitpicking gripe about UI... STOP CHANGING MY CAMERA VIEW! Why oh WHY does my camera get reset on every jump? I go to the trouble to zoom to the distance and angle that I want, NOTHING should ever change that but ME! If I want to be zoomed out to 100k and angled up a certain way, I shouldn't have to re-zoom and move my view every time I jump. JUST LEAVE MY CAMERA VIEW ALONE!


This!

Good grief Charlie Brown, let me resize a window to what I want - add scrollbars if you have to, or just leave the functionality I can't see hidden.

And yes please, remember the zoom level and camera angle I set in the previous system or last time I was undocked. How hard is that?

And while you're at it, please find the mystery UI settings bug that always either disables my overlay or closes my scan window every session change. It never fails, my client gets into one mode or the other no matter how often I clear the cache and windows locations. Either the scanner window closes itself when I dock / undock every time, or the range circle overlay thing disappears every system jump (despite the button itself still being highlighted blue, requiring 2 clicks to turn it off and on again)


This is similar to a problem I have where the Fleet window bumps up any window it's sitting on top of when I dock. Closing/Re-opening the Fleet window fixes it and the bumped up window. Very annoying. :/
Raneru
Blades of Dawn
Stribog Clade
#109 - 2012-01-11 13:33:54 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:

The argument here is that when you open up a window that is not already pinned to the Neocom, the toggle close functionality can become very annoying. If you for example want to keep an agent mission window open for the duration of a mission, you could quite easily close the window by accident with the toggle close functionality, but with toggle minimize you won't lose the window as easily through clumsy clicking. Also, for windows that are already pinned to the Neocom, you don't really care too much if the window is closed or minimized, as long as it pops in your face when you click the button. This also results in the nice side effect that windows generally take much less time to maximize than to open. As with all new functionality, this will of course take a little bit of getting used to.


This sounds like a good way to go. I can't tell you the number of times i've looked something up (contract, agent, moduile, etc) then needed to get at something under the window and instinctively closed it, meaning I had to go lookup whatever it was again.
Xiode
Nemesis Logistics
Goonswarm Federation
#110 - 2012-01-11 14:09:33 UTC
Vertical <3
Echo Mande
#111 - 2012-01-11 14:27:38 UTC
Looks interesting.

A 'very nice to have' would be the ability to suppress menu item names and to show small icons. After a while large icons and text will probably be more frustrating (due to space taken up) than helpful. Having windows minimize to the bottom, as now, is definitely you want to keep around. Monitoring activity on minimized chat channel windows is one reason.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#112 - 2012-01-11 14:42:22 UTC
Plz make sure to make it all very intuitive and not follow the programmers dream...
Make it intuitive and listen to feedback - then It will be another nice feature of recent focus on improving Eve

Looks good though :-)

Pink
Black Panthera
#113 - 2012-01-11 15:23:32 UTC
New UI looks promising.... but It would be really useful if we get some tool to export UI settings for use on other account. I really don't like wasting time in order to make all my accounts to look the same. I know there are ways to 'clone' settings manually but there has to be even easier way to do it.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#114 - 2012-01-11 15:40:45 UTC
mkint wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:
TheLostPenguin wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:
The Neocom now also takes care of hosting minimized windows, so the unreadable slab of buttons that formed at the bottom of your screen is gone forever.

Not sure about this part, if as it appears from reading the blog minimised windows now go to hide on the neocom there seems little point minimising them, for me a large part of the reason for doing so is NOT having to open the neocom to click back on a button. If this could become optional in a later release it'd be great, removing functionality (even it it doesn't look like it to you) is allways a bad thing.

Rixiu wrote:

Not a fan of the toggle-minimize behaviour. Prefer the toggle-close one we have now.

This should really be an option set for each window, do you want it to toggle open/closed or open/minimised as neither is ideal to apply to everything.


Other than that it sounds good, looks like it might finally be possible to shovel the 80% of stuff I never use on neocom off to the depths of the client and just have the 2 or 3 buttons I do use to hand, roll on sorting out the annoying glitches with window behaviour (esp stacked windows) nextBig smile


Removing functionality is very bad, unless you replace it with something better and that's what we're hoping to do with the new Neocom. If you still won't agree after having used it for a while, obviously we'll need to iterate.

Devs have a long history of really really sucking at what counts as "better."

For me, the worst part about the old new neocom, and the horizontal alignment, was that you have 30 different windows that look like [?]. Like some dev is saying "I don't even know what the f*ck this window is!" Just like the ctrl-tab window became useless when it was switched to icons, you're making the minimized windows equally useless. Your design is bad and you should feel bad. You're admitting to "selling out" to "awesum". Remember how big a flop it was last time that happened?

This is totally premature. The EVE UI sucks noodles. A very small portion of it is in how you access it. How you access any particular window or tool in the game is a matter of memorizing where it is located. Now you're throwing away the millions of man-hours put into memorization, and you're making it harder for vets to tell rookies "oh, to access your fitting in space you need to hit the fitting button on the neocom, 3rd button down." All this does is turn a huge shithole of a UI into a swirling shithole of a UI. Sorry, but this sounds like change for the sake of change, where not only does nothing get better, it actually gets worse.


Because the ability to set something up the way that you prefer is a bad thing..... Roll

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Sakurako Kimino
Eternal Darkness.
The Initiative.
#115 - 2012-01-11 15:54:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Sakurako Kimino
Dmian wrote:
Sakurako Kimino wrote:
why on earth are you guys putting this in when its not finished did 2011 not teach you anything?

do it right, only put it in once you have it working, yes i'm talking about the vertical part why are you still not hearing what we have to say. How i see this new neocom added no vertical as you'll say its done can't be ased to code the vertical.

on the other hand it is looking cool.

It's called iterative and incremental development.
They do more small changes, instead of a big, fat (and bug prone) change.
You have a working vertical Neocom. You'll have a slightly better vertical Neocom. In the next iteration, you'll gain the ability to make it horizontal, etc.
Believe me, iterative development works (I use it in Graphic and Web Design a lot).


edit due to site eatting my post

i know where your coming from but ccp has a habit of doing things in half then calling them done for 2 or more years

eve is about sin

Jackie Cross
MacGyver Communications
Minerva Exalt Holdings
#116 - 2012-01-11 16:30:16 UTC
Raid'En wrote:
i suppose que blue bar at the bottom of the avatar is the active skill ?
i hope we can desactivate it ; i really hate things that move on my interface.
if this thing flash i'm gonna kill someone.

It is and we can't. At least you won't have to go on a murderous rampage.

That little thing could've been enough to make me rage enough to not pick up the game had I just started playing. I promise you, I don't need or want such a moving bar to keep track of my skills. Only when I'm under a tonne of courseload, and don't log in anyway, do I ever miss updating the skillqueue.

Also, why hide; Corporation, Calculator and Notepad, under (more) menues? Three of my more used windows are to be harder to reach?

Further, please let us remove the animations. It's the first thing I remove when installing Windows, before installing the graphics driver. I detest them with a vengeance.

Overall grade; Meh. Good with the rather bad.
Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2012-01-11 17:36:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Nomad I
TBH there is to much graphical clutter in the neocom. Important information is about clarity and fast access. Google has become better with the gmail interface. Simple buttons with only one color. In such a manner I wish an interface. I've made an simple example.

An example of a more clear neocom

Colors hasn't to be bright but have to give a good contrast (not the maximum). Plain areas with a single or 2 color are better to read.

In addition, why not making the HUD modular so that we would able to exchange the style every element and positioned it free around?
Visione
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2012-01-11 17:39:47 UTC
Love it! keep working on great thins CCP :)

i was kinda dissappointet this project was scraped from the agenda, but now its back, and coming to New Eden soon, i am a very happy man :)
Kethry Avenger
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2012-01-11 21:07:10 UTC
Looks good so far.

I would like the ability to be able to group icons with breaks between them.

I would like to be able to add icons from the bottom and the top.

Or just have them stick where I put them would work also. And if they get bumped when to many icons are there then so be it.
Jouron
Hadon Shipping
#120 - 2012-01-11 21:16:52 UTC
I dont know if any one has suggested this but maybe we can bridge the gap between the "hey this is awesome" people
and the "Swirling UI of ****" People.

Why not have a reset to default function. A single button you can click and it resets to the default it was at when you first started the game.

That way if a biter vet is saying "hey rookie change this," and the rookie is like, "Where is it? P.S . i F'd my neo com to death." The bitervet can just order them to hit the default button and it will reorder to the way it originally was.

This would only work presuming the default line up starts off in the order the old UI is set too.

Also being able to save neo com line ups might help with this as well.