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First Maxed Eve account.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#141 - 2016-02-14 17:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Avvy wrote:
Unless you purchased a character from the character bazaar of course.
No. The exact same rules applied, because what you got was a character, not a bunch of SP.

Quote:
Ok, just seen that was covered in post #131
…and the reasons why it's ignorant BS was covered in post #139.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#142 - 2016-02-14 17:06:42 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
From the moment I heard about it, I recognized it was a game-changing paradigm shift and that all the noobs in support were incapable of rationalizing what it would mean for vets & the game.

I've started playing EVE in 2003 and quit in 2009. Came back 2012, made new accounts (I've had my reasons) and while I'm a bittervet in many regards and certainly do love rambling about various things, SP trading isn't one of them.
There should have been a limit to how many SP one can inject, like up to 100M SP and then no more, but even without that limit, I don't really care about it.
All that SP gives me is the ability to use certain modules or fly certain ships. I don't get the experience to actually do that properly along with the SP, I can just do it. Not more.

I personally never really gave a crap about SP. I won't use injectors, as I simply wouldn't know what to train (perhaps some shield skills at last, lol). I'm just going to continue as before and train the normal way. Those looking for instant gratification have now something that will stick them to EVE at least for a little while, whereas before they probably would never have subscribed, so on this avenue more income for CCP.

My opinion on SP trading is a neutral one. I'm neither in favor, nor against it. Let whoever needs it use it, I certainly do not.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#143 - 2016-02-14 17:10:58 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:



So, what will be next?



Hopefully the removal of attributes and attribute implants.






My vote.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#144 - 2016-02-14 17:15:08 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:



So, what will be next?



Hopefully the removal of attributes and attribute implants.






That vould be necessary if CCP wanted to sell skilling as a microtransaction service for F2P accounts.
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
#145 - 2016-02-14 17:15:23 UTC
Linus Gorp wrote:
nor does it really give you an advantage..

Roll
I'm sure new pilots with 400k sp will agree that having max skills conveys no extra advantages such as trading skills, PI skills, production skills, research skills, ability to fit t2 modules, fits you can actually use because you don't have all the pg/cpu restrictions, or the ability to hop in and fly any ship you like right now.

Just because someone doesn't have experience flying a particular ship doesn't mean it's not an advantage to be able to fly it.

Your assertion that having max skills isn't an advantage is nonsense.

Rothbard's Casino
Hairtrigger
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#146 - 2016-02-14 17:15:35 UTC
well, thats it for me folks.

got 3 days left of my subs ive been paying for since 2004.

should of seen the writing on the wall years ago when all the original devs started jumpng ship and they started hiring people like fozzie, verone, kill2 etc.

but this latest money grabbin tactic by hilmar is just too much.

been saying this for years, that incompetent tool needs sacking.

he is slowly kiling this game like a cancer
Darkblad
Doomheim
#147 - 2016-02-14 17:15:57 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
So, what will be next?
Play for free, SP for AUR only
Special perks for subscribers (an upcoming feature called SP over time).

NPE-ISD-Übersetzt!
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2016-02-14 17:18:14 UTC
Hairtrigger wrote:
well, thats it for me folks.

got 3 days left of my subs ive been paying for since 2004.

should of seen the writing on the wall years ago when all the original devs started jumpng ship and they started hiring people like fozzie, verone, kill2 etc.

but this latest money grabbin tactic by hilmar is just too much.

been saying this for years, that incompetent tool needs sacking.

he is slowly kiling this game like a cancer


could i please have some of your stuff?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#149 - 2016-02-14 17:20:04 UTC
Edwin Rothbard wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
nor does it really give you an advantage..

Roll
I'm sure new pilots with 400k sp will agree that having max skills conveys no extra advantages such as trading skills, PI skills, production skills, research skills, ability to fit t2 modules, fits you can actually use because you don't have all the pg/cpu restrictions, or the ability to hop in and fly any ship you like right now.

Just because someone doesn't have experience flying a particular ship doesn't mean it's not an advantage to be able to fly it.

Your assertion that having max skills isn't an advantage is nonsense.

A 10-year vet with 2M SP will rip apart a 5-day newbro with maxed out bought skills every day. But you're right on the part of Trading / PI / Production skills. I've never really thought about that. But if anything, only trading skills might have an impact (less taxes to pay), as whoever couldn't be bothered with it before certainly can't be bothered with it after.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Avvy
Doomheim
#150 - 2016-02-14 17:20:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Tippia wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Unless you purchased a character from the character bazaar of course.
No. The exact same rules applied, because what you got was a character, not a bunch of SP.



What you got was a character with a bunch of sp already trained by someone else. Plus you get to choose which character and how that sp is distributed.

So although you couldn't put the sp exactly where you wanted to, you could buy a character that closely matches what you wanted, so not really a great deal of difference.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#151 - 2016-02-14 17:27:17 UTC
Edwin Rothbard wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
nor does it really give you an advantage..

Roll
I'm sure new pilots with 400k sp will agree that having max skills conveys no extra advantages such as trading skills, PI skills, production skills, research skills, ability to fit t2 modules, fits you can actually use because you don't have all the pg/cpu restrictions, or the ability to hop in and fly any ship you like right now.

Just because someone doesn't have experience flying a particular ship doesn't mean it's not an advantage to be able to fly it.

Your assertion that having max skills isn't an advantage is nonsense.


so what if he can use T2 mods and ship if he doesn't know how to use it or if nobody plays with him?

check lowsec especially FW deaths, notice that even veteran players uses T1 ships with mixed T1/T2 mods?

infact, i don't see you, a 2007 character, flying OP or expensive ships yourself to have an advantage over others and you have plenty of SP, why?

if having more SP is such of an advantage, why are you in particular, not showing it?

Just Add Water
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#152 - 2016-02-14 17:31:28 UTC
Avvy wrote:
What you got was a character with a bunch of sp already trained by someone else
…which means you had no control over the actual SP or its suitability to your current needs or its availability. All of it had to be planned ahead and grown organically to suit some assumed future state. It, like your own character, was the result of a long-term build history and a specific time in the history of the game.

So pretty much entirely unlike the direct manipulation of SP we have now, where none of that is a factor any more. There is no longer any time that need to be spent, no plan that needs to be made, no historical state and future development that need to be accounted for. Just buy, apply, match.

The entire process has become optional — history and the flow of time has been lost.
Avvy
Doomheim
#153 - 2016-02-14 17:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Tippia wrote:
Avvy wrote:
What you got was a character with a bunch of sp already trained by someone else
…which means you had no control over the actual SP or its suitability to your current needs or its availability. All of it had to be planned ahead and grown organically to suit some assumed future state. It, like your own character, was the result of a long-term build history and a specific time in the history of the game.

So pretty much entirely unlike the direct manipulation of SP we have now, where none of that is a factor any more. There is no longer any time that need to be spent, no plan that needs to be made, no historical state and future development that need to be accounted for. Just buy, apply, match.

The entire process has become optional — history and the flow of time has been lost.



Say I bought a character from the bazaar, I wouldn't buy one if it had the wrong skills trained.

So I'd buy one with suitable skill for what I had planned.


Alternatively buy skill injectors to a similar total sp value to that of what the bazaar character had and inject those and use them in much the same manner. End result not much different.


With the bazaar character, the previous history is irrelevant to me as it wasn't my history with the character.


Edit:

Ok, you're taking the case of the guy in question of this thread.

The majority of players don't have unlimited amounts of isk to use they still have to plan where to use them. No history as in training time but still listed.

I used 37 injectors in the end and that's it for awhile, as isk is less than 2 bill, so in the poor house now.
Cixi
#154 - 2016-02-14 17:43:36 UTC
There is no problem with what this guy did. He just want recognition and fame, I bet he won't even play with that character.

You can be as good as him (in 1 or few focused way) in a relative short time
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#155 - 2016-02-14 18:12:59 UTC
Quote:
You can be as good as him (in 1 or few focused way) in a relative short time

No.
You all lost. Na na na na na. P

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2016-02-14 18:13:26 UTC
Dawny Star wrote:
Not quite

Extractors are only seeded via someone buying them with AUR, and AUR can only come from one of 3 places

Plex to AUR conversion - Someone bought a PLEX, PLEX can only be generated by RL Cash
RL Cash to AUR purchase.
Historically gifted AUR from CCP - There's no damn way they gave enough away for this weeks events :p

So people have absolutely been generating CCP income with this.


That's true. What I mean was that IronBank didn't pay-to-win, since IronBank (likely) didn't pay any RL cash at all.
Cixi
#157 - 2016-02-14 18:19:36 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Quote:
You can be as good as him (in 1 or few focused way) in a relative short time

No.
You all lost. Na na na na na. P


Lol
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#158 - 2016-02-14 18:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:
I once thought is was amazing that it would take 20-30 years to train all this skills in this game.

I think something has been lost....



Of course I do too. But because SP trading is not completely "P2W", some people don't have the foresight to see why this is bad. It's nothing new, there were people defending Dominion's Sov system for like 2 years after it was implemented even though the bad affects of that system were already apparent.

People selling or buying SP and maxing out characters isn't the end of the world, it is an early warning indicator of truly bad things to come. It shows that CCP doesn't understand the value of the things they keep putting on the chopping block. Even after draining 2 characters I'm still sitting on enough SP to keep my 4 accounts in plexes (at current plex prices) for like 3 years. WTF CCP?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#159 - 2016-02-14 18:37:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Avvy wrote:
So although you couldn't put the sp exactly where you wanted to, you could buy a character that closely matches what you wanted, so not really a great deal of difference.
Except for characters on the bazaar having a HISTORY and often a public set of skills that wouldn't have changed much and kill board with losses to check.

Now, a "newbie" can do a fast turn around and hustle you into an expensive loss.

Bring on the risk aversion ten-fold.
Linus Gorp wrote:
A 10-year vet with 2M SP will rip apart a 5-day newbro with maxed out bought skills every day. ...
Now tell me how a 10 year veteran with a max combat alt does against 5M SP new players. Blink
Yonis Kador wrote:
Short of a public flailing or self-immolation, I don't know what more I could've done to raise awareness against sp trading prior to its implementation. ...
YK
I was grasping around a bit in the dark but the number of times I point things out and get shouted down ...

I think either the old crowd are too tired to fight against stupid stuff like Fozzie SOV, T3Ds, Command Destroyers and now Skill Injectors or we really are all dying out and the tantrum kids are taking over.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#160 - 2016-02-14 18:44:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Jenn aSide wrote:
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:
I once thought is was amazing that it would take 20-30 years to train all this skills in this game.

I think something has been lost....



Of course I do to. But because SP trading is not completely "P2W", some people don't have the foresight to see why this is bad. It's nothing new, there were people defending Dominion's Sov system for like 2 years after it was implemented even though the bad affects of that system were already apparent.

People selling or buying SP and maxing out characters isn't the end of the world, it is an early warning indicator of truly bad things to come. It shows that CCP doesn't understand the value of the things they keep putting on the chopping block. Even after draining 2 characters I'm still sitting on enough SP to keep my 4 accounts in plexes (at current plex prices) for like 3 years. WTF CCP?



Snake was saying "take a small bite, noone will know". CCP is the snake. Guess who are the sinners.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥