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First Maxed Eve account.

First post
Author
Yarosara Ruil
Haighare Pirates
#101 - 2016-02-14 15:44:11 UTC
Remember when people where moaning about how removing Clone Grades, and having to spend ISK to keep veteran players from losing their large SP pools when podded, was terrible for EVE because it removed a risk mechanic from the game?

Well, guess that this last year and a half without Skill Point loss has been addressed rather fantastically if you ask me.

My advice? HTFU you guys!
Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
#102 - 2016-02-14 15:50:10 UTC
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:
CCP allowed their own corporate greed to renege on the fundamental core principles of the game they created.

Sums it up really.

What "exciting new features" will be rolled out next to shamelessly endeavour to milk more cash from the playberbase?


Try this https://secure.eveonline.com/SkillExtractors/

RL cash for in game items.

I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#103 - 2016-02-14 15:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Tippia wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Its the future, you adapt or what?
Adapt to what?
That CCP is pursuing short-term strategies that hurts their long-time viability? Yeah, sure. I have other games to play when that process has run its course.

Quote:
And since when history and experience does not matter?
Since day 1. It's pretty much the life-blood of any persistent and long-lasting game — indeed, it's what makes the persistence last so long. If your business model is to sell long-term progression, then letting people skip that progression means you no longer have a viable business model.

Idea of a viable style of play is very different for many people, EVE have this advantage, that it allows to do many shenanigans, so having perfect skills, does not mean you will not have to carve your own history and experience. And this is all about it here, if you have less or more SP it does not really matter so much.

You remember the former EVE intro? "Dare to be bold pilot, forge your own path to the greatness."

SP aquirement is not really this forging. Everyone can have it for free. P
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#104 - 2016-02-14 15:53:11 UTC
Yarosara Ruil wrote:
Remember when people where moaning about how removing Clone Grades, and having to spend ISK to keep veteran players from losing their large SP pools when podded, was terrible for EVE because it removed a risk mechanic from the game?

Well, guess that this last year and a half without Skill Point loss has been addressed rather fantastically if you ask me.

My advice? HTFU you guys!

Why is the game being made easier and more forgiving something to HTFU about?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#105 - 2016-02-14 15:56:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Nana Skalski wrote:
Idea of a viable style of play is very different for many people, EVE have this advantage, that it allows to do many shenanigans, so having perfect skills, does not mean you will not have to carve your own history and experience.
It means you're not creating any kind of history and your character does not reflect your experience, because the two have been completely decoupled. And again, it's not about viable play style, but about viable business models — or in this case the way they're actively disrupting their own model.

Quote:
You remember the former EVE intro?
You mean the one that was pretty much universally derided as being **** and that had very little to do with EVE compared to the ones that came before and after it?

Yes. I remember it. It was ****.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#106 - 2016-02-14 16:04:12 UTC
We have different ideas about what is your history and what is experience. Time is not significant like you would want to see it. What matters most is what you have been able to do.

If you have less SP, more glory to you if you can pull something. If perferct skills, experience and history matters the most.
Pandora Bokks
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
Externa Group
#107 - 2016-02-14 16:06:26 UTC
Dr Caymus wrote:
The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail

Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.


Back up and restore, anyone?


I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours.
SKINE DMZ
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2016-02-14 16:10:42 UTC
Yarosara Ruil wrote:
Remember when people where moaning about how removing Clone Grades, and having to spend ISK to keep veteran players from losing their large SP pools when podded, was terrible for EVE because it removed a risk mechanic from the game?

Well, guess that this last year and a half without Skill Point loss has been addressed rather fantastically if you ask me.

My advice? HTFU you guys!


"Hey guys remember there was once a feature implemented which people claimed was terrible but actually it wasn't? That's my argument for why this feature isn't terrible"

PLS CCP implement logic injectors

I disagree

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#109 - 2016-02-14 16:12:37 UTC
Dr Caymus wrote:
The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail

Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.

However, now a complete mockery of the system has been made with a 3-day-old character. Was that not seen coming?

This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.

Back up and restore, anyone?


Dr Caymus, respect can be EARNED in many ways, but it can't be BOUGHT in no way.

For what is worth, you have my respect as the longest trained character in EVE. Cool
Avvy
Doomheim
#110 - 2016-02-14 16:13:00 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Idea of a viable style of play is very different for many people, EVE have this advantage, that it allows to do many shenanigans, so having perfect skills, does not mean you will not have to carve your own history and experience.
It means you're not creating any kind of history and your character does not reflect your experience, because the two have been completely decoupled. And again, it's not about viable play style, but about viable business models — or in this case the way they're actively disrupting their own model.

Quote:
You remember the former EVE intro?
You mean the one that was pretty much universally derided as being **** and that had very little to do with EVE compared to the ones that came before and after it?

Yes. I remember it. It was ****.



History doesn't really matter, it's the present and looking to the future that counts. You can start to learn how to play at any point.


These style of games with the long skill training queues and slow progression were popular around 2003 but even then they were starting to become a bit less popular. In fact in some ways it still reminds me of those times. Another reason it was a niche game as this style of game still had its fans.


Seems that they are trying to modernise the game, I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, although I still think they should have had a cap so that the injectors would no longer work at a certain point, so as to protect their older customers sp levels. But it's too late for that now.



Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#111 - 2016-02-14 16:15:38 UTC
Well, I have to say that it's come much faster than I had imagined, but I don't really think this is that much of a surprise to anyone. I think we all knew it would happen at some point. Make of it what you will. Some will complain that the end is nigh all all is lost; "The sky is falling and Eve is dying again," that sort of thing. Not that I think there concerns are completely invalid, some of that does hold a bit of truth...Eve will never be the same as it was for it's first dozen years of life. That said, change like this is pretty much inevitable when your really think about it. In fact, should Eve survive long enough, it will likely change again just as much in another dozen years.

Personally the way I see it there is more to Eve than half a billion SP, whether you get it through time or money. Granted it is a big part of what players can and cannot do, but it still doesn't make a player suddenly invincible or the Eve equivalent of a god or goddess among the rest of us minor, half-mortal deities. End of Eve? No, but Eve has just received one of the biggest changes to it's core fundamental foundations it has ever seen, certainly the biggest change in a long time. I do hope people don't simply end up quitting Eve simply in direct protest of such a change, but it wouldn't surprise me if some did, nor do I blame them either. New players won't know what patience is when they can buy their way past such a milestone instantly, true without question.

If it bothers you so much that others will be able to max skills out sooner than you simply because they have more ISK or RL cash rather than having the luck that they started their time in Eve far sooner than you did, then you'd have every right to pack it up and log off for the last time. Again, can't say I really blame you. It just isn't the way I see it. To me, seeing others buying their SP with RL currency or in game currency is no different than starting your adventure in Eve while running into players that have simply acquired their SP by being there longer than you. Just as PLEX'ing your account with PLEX bought with ISK from another player is no different in my eyes than paying for your account with a credit card -- especially given how expensive ISK-wise PLEX and many other things in Eve have become over the years. The only difference here is that the more patient players will not only have an SP advantage over a newer player, they will have more personal human experience and understanding of how Eve works.

It's a shame players nowadays have a way to effectively "skip" all of that personal experience and know-how; knowing people, many will take advantage of that simply because it's there at all. If nothing else, it will mean the players will see less of an SP gap between new and old players and their characters. Hopefully, that alone will still be enough to matter in the years to come and beyond now that an SP curve is no longer strictly tied to a character's age. It's tough to say right now at least whether this change will loosen up an needlessly strict age-old burden in Eve or be unfortunately denying future players a vital and valuable lesson by luring them into the possibly very false sense of buying their way up getting them the win.

tl;dr
It is what it is. I hope you guys stay and continue to play Eve these changes, but if you feel that skill injections have turned Eve into a game you cannot have fun playing anymore, then maybe it is time to call it a day for Eve Online. It won't bother me one bit that new players (or even old players with new characters) have a new means to remove that SP advantage that a more veteran player's characters had if they have the cash for it, so I'm still in. What ever each of you and any other player does, I wish you the best of luck and thanks for playing.

Fly safe and go nuts...

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Leanette Aldard
Kings.Guard.
#112 - 2016-02-14 16:16:04 UTC
i saw tail end of his stream and this is a sad thing to do but there was always going to be someone that did this,

he made a statement on the stream saying this wasn't P2W that it was "Pay for convenience" as he was still the pilot at end of the day, which is kinda true if you blow at pvp all isk and sp in world isnt going to change that,


he did also say he planned on being the youngest pilot in EvE to loose one of every titan, so obviously has more isk then sense
!!
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
#113 - 2016-02-14 16:17:28 UTC
Pandora Bokks wrote:
[quote=Dr Caymus]I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours.

Therein lies the problem: CCP has now created a system where the only way to stay competitive on SP is to pay RL cash for SP on top of your monthly subscription fee. This is the very definition of p2win. What's worse is that most p2win games are 'free' from a monthly subscription fee but with all the microtransactions. CCP has done one better by requiring both the month subscription fee AND the microtransactions. Not to mention CCP's idea of "micro" is really more "macro."

This looks great on a spreadsheet from an account's point of view, but for the health and longevity of the game it's bad.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#114 - 2016-02-14 16:18:28 UTC
So a few mentally unstable/attention whores max out the SP on a few characters? How exactly does this affect the majority of players?

I'll tell you. Not in the least.

You people kill me, sometimes.

Mr Epeen Cool
Dr Caymus
Applied Technologies Inc
Agents of Fortune
#115 - 2016-02-14 16:21:00 UTC
Pandora Bokks wrote:
Dr Caymus wrote:
The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail

Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.

However, now a complete mockery of the system has been made with a 3-day-old character. Was that not seen coming?

This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.

Back up and restore, anyone?


I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours.

You're missing the point, Pandora. You are correct, I have the resources to take this char to max if I wanted, but this isn't about me, its about the game... its history, its lore, its value, its perception within the gaming industry.


SKINE DMZ
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2016-02-14 16:24:35 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
So a few mentally unstable/attention whores max out the SP on a few characters? How exactly does this affect the majority of players?

I'll tell you. Not in the least.

You people kill me, sometimes.

Mr Epeen Cool


Thats one extremely narrow minded point of view. Surely it's possible for a feature to affect the game in different ways i.e. the perception towards SP in regards to new players? Or is that completely nullified because one character maxing out his character doesn't affect you personally?

Aren't you guys meant to be the more mature community, seriously where is the logic in some of you people.

I disagree

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#117 - 2016-02-14 16:25:49 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
We have different ideas about what is your history and what is experience. Time is not significant like you would want to see it. What matters most is what you have been able to do.
…in other words, the history and progression of your character. The part that no longer matters since it's optional.

Avvy wrote:
History doesn't really matter
Not any more, no. That's why something has been lost: because the organic growth of a character is gone, replaced with a short-sighted cash grab.

Quote:
Seems that they are trying to modernise the game, I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing
The problem is that they're not really doing that. There's nothing “modern” about these kinds of time skips. What they are doing is confirming some of the worst preconceived notions that players have had of EVE over almost its entire time on the market — notions that were never actually true, but are at least somewhat closer to being so today. This is indeed a bad thing; catering to uninformed opinions pretty much always are.
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#118 - 2016-02-14 16:27:13 UTC
Wouldn't it be funny if CCP suddenly put clone costs back in? Big smile

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Poddington Bare
Infinite Destruction.
Unspoken Alliance.
#119 - 2016-02-14 16:28:34 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Wouldn't it be funny if CCP suddenly put clone costs back in? Big smile


Yes.

Yes it would.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#120 - 2016-02-14 16:29:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Dr Caymus wrote:
Pandora Bokks wrote:
Dr Caymus wrote:
The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail

Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.

However, now a complete mockery of the system has been made with a 3-day-old character. Was that not seen coming?

This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.

Back up and restore, anyone?


I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours.

You're missing the point, Pandora. You are correct, I have the resources to take this char to max if I wanted, but this isn't about me, its about the game... its history, its lore, its value, its perception within the gaming industry.



Live up to your words and dont pay attention to SP whores who like to wave around their lengthened artificially SPeen.